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Post by 60isolderthanithot on Sept 27, 2009 12:28:34 GMT -5
I was reading something online the other day which discussed why cluttering/hoarding was so very hard to treat and this idea came up that it was a successful coping strategy for the underlying "whatever," so patients didn't seek help much until it was very advanced. Compared to freefloating anxiety, for instance, having things "store" the emotional overflow might be driving the hoarder. Until the mess makes home life dysfunctional, I guess.
I've always thought people who use drugs and alcohol are medicating for inner pain. Maybe a clutterbug puts the fear or pain into literally another container - outside the body. Since this quells the immediate disturbance, the person isn't motivated to seek solutions to a problem that's already been dealt with.
Does that sound feasible?
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Post by lostagain on Sept 27, 2009 12:39:58 GMT -5
I definately think that hoarding is a form of OCD. Which is to say that we think if we get rid of X then Y will happen. Or alternately, if Y happens, I will have X which will mean I am prepared. It was interesting to see on "Obsessed" (I don't know if you have seen that show) - they had two hoarders. What they do on that show, which focuses on different forms of OCD, is what they call "exposure therapy". This is forcing someone into a state of anxiety (for a hand washer, for instance, they had to get their hands dirty and not wash them for a certain amount of time) and then people realize that their anxiety would eventually go away. The body can't hold a state of high anxiety permanantly.
Now, for hoarders, this worked SOMEWHAT. The anxiety was caused by throwing something away. But I think it works a little different than other OCDs - what I mean is this. A hand washer can see that they do not immediately become sick, for instance, if they don't wash. Whereas I think we are looking forward to a future where we may very well need what we just threw away - so it's not an immediate response.
I read a very interesting book - fiction book - about Mary Todd Lincoln a few years ago. Evidently she was a hoarder, triggered by the death of her son and then her husband. The thought processes they talk about in the book rang very true to me. It is called "Mary" by Janice Newman
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Post by CourageouslyLion SeeksSerenity on Sept 27, 2009 13:58:51 GMT -5
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Post by 60isolderthanithot on Sept 27, 2009 16:45:49 GMT -5
Thanks for the link! I especially notice this part:
"There are two well-established treatments for OCD, serotonin reuptake blocking medications and cognitive behavioral therapy (CBT). Hoarding as a specific form of OCD does not seem to respond well to medication. One reason for this poor response may be that the medication works by reducing intensity and frequency of intrusive thoughts. This, in turn, allows the individual with OCD to engage in formal or informal behavior therapy including exposure to anxiety producing situations. Because hoarders already successfully avoid or manage much of their anxiety, the medication doesn't have a noticeable impact."
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Post by sleepymom on Sept 27, 2009 23:27:13 GMT -5
And how satisfying is it when we get rewarded for saving some oddball thing by having it needed by someone once in a blue moon? I can think of at least half a dozen instances where something I have, but don`t really use or need, came in handy for someone else.
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Post by 60isolderthanithot on Sept 28, 2009 10:01:08 GMT -5
Because hoarders already successfully avoid or manage much of their anxiety, the medication doesn't have a noticeable impact." Somehow, this sentence really speaks to me. If the clutter is a sort of solid, external form of inner discomfort, do we "repossess" the original bad feeling when we throw things out? Is that part of the fear of cleaning up? I had thought the clutter might be a wall, a way to block off intrusion from an unwelcome world. But what if the wall is actually performing other functions too? I've been reading that hoarders perform rituals around their objects just as other OCD compulsions do and until they devalue the actual physical components of their clutter, they are terribly upset by throwing it away. I saw one of those hoarding episodes on A&E and it was noticeable that one woman fixated on her bathroom and got practically nothing done during the whole two days she had moving crews there. If it were up to her, she'd fill up a lunch sack with items headed for the garbage, everything else would remain. She trembled with apparent anxiety most of the time. The items were VERY VERY VALUABLE to her and many people in this message board understood that as part of their own experience with clutter. I have been finding that the more I toss, the easier it gets. Is this usual? Other clutterers I've seen (on TV) got MORE anxious as they threw out more things. It's hard to get a handle on this. Maybe we are dealing with the rhino virus version of OCD? A hundred different germs with a common set of symptoms? |
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Post by 60isolderthanithot on Sept 28, 2009 10:16:10 GMT -5
Sleepy - yes, indeed! One neighbor who made a great show of being annoyed by the clutter in my driveway during one phase of cleanup had to grit her teeth as her husband came over and tried to negotiate a good price on several items.
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Post by CourageouslyLion SeeksSerenity on Sept 28, 2009 10:22:45 GMT -5
I read a very interesting book - fiction book - about Mary Todd Lincoln a few years ago. Evidently she was a hoarder, triggered by the death of her son and then her husband. The thought processes they talk about in the book rang very true to me. It is called "Mary" by Janice Newman Fascinating! Thanks. www.amazon.com/dp/193156163Xwww.noevalleyvoice.com/2006/September/Mary.htmlI had heard of Mary Todd Lincoln's compulsive shopping before. This is a new take on it. ... Quote from amazon.com: |
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Post by CourageouslyLion SeeksSerenity on Sept 28, 2009 10:42:12 GMT -5
- Okay, back to the original topic ... I've always thought people who use drugs and alcohol are medicating for inner pain. Maybe a clutterbug puts the fear or pain into literally another container - outside the body. Since this quells the immediate disturbance, the person isn't motivated to seek solutions to a problem that's already been dealt with. With classical regular OCD (non-hoarding OCD), ... the person is compelled to do a specific behavior, or obsessed with a thought, but really doesn't want to be do/think that at all.
But nevertheless, the compulsion is there. It annoys them. They don't want it, but it's there.
They don't enjoy having to recheck the house 70 times to see if it's locked, but they have to anyhow. They don't enjoy having a repetitive horrible intrusive thought constantly popping up in their brain, but it happens anyhow.
There is no gratification in this. They are tormented by the obsession or compulsion. So such OCD patients want relief/treatment. Whereas with hoarding, ... the hoarder gets a bit of a high from an acquisition ... or a bit of a feeling of security from the wall of stuff. They get rewarded by the stuff. Hence no motivation to let go. - |
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Post by lostagain on Sept 28, 2009 13:38:48 GMT -5
Yes lion - from what I understand hoarding is the hardest OCD to "break" (along with ones associated with religion) because the hoarder simply does not see it as a problem. So you're right - it's easy to look at your hands that are cracked and bleeding from washing and say "this is a problem/this is not normal/I hate this" but there is still some sort of anxiety calming aspect to stuff.
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Post by Fivecat on Sept 28, 2009 19:11:06 GMT -5
Yesterday at 4:45pm, 60isolderthanithot wrote:
"I have been finding that the more I toss, the easier it gets. Is this usual?"
This was the case for me. But, it took a real breakthrough moment and some self analysis. I think letting go takes alot of practice. In the beginning, you're not very good and it's very painful often times. But, the more you do it, the easier it gets. Fivecat
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Post by Meme on Sept 28, 2009 20:05:48 GMT -5
yes-- I do think the more we toss the easier it is to do partly because we are finding space and peace and hope - we are starting to live in the now rather than in the someday- most things we keep beyond what we use daily is some how a future thought - that old ''someday which never comes but we keep saving for it--
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