MiSC
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Joined: May 2008
Posts: 1,611 
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Post by MiSC on Feb 11, 2009 17:43:15 GMT -5
I was recently asked what the difference between squalor and hoarding is, and I'm having trouble explaining it fully. I'm trying to get as much input as I can on this, so I'd be very grateful for your thoughts. (Rather than quoting you elsewhere, I will direct the person who asked me about it to this SOS thread.)
Thank you in advance,
MiSC (yes, that one)
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Post by messymimi on Feb 11, 2009 18:51:37 GMT -5
Hello, MiSC!
My opinion of the differences is probably just like an elbow -- everyone has a couple, and they are sometimes in the way.  But if you want it, here goes.
Hoarding is a collection gone out of control. It is uncontained, all over the place, and now unenjoyable.
Hoarding can also be holding on to more of something than you can possibly use in a reasonable amount of time.
Squalor is when the hoard becomes dirty. It can also be when the usual stuff of living is scattered, dirty, unkempt, and making parts of the house unusable.
I don't know if this helps at all, but it's how I see it.
I am looking forward to getting other people's take on this.
messymimi
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Post by CourageouslyLion SeeksSerenity on Feb 11, 2009 20:51:50 GMT -5
- Hi there! HOARDING:Self-test to see if you're a hoarder: www.ocfoundation.org/hoarding/docs/Measurement-of-compulsive-hoarding-survey-02.pdfMore info on hoarding: www.squalorsurvivors.com/squalor/hoarding.shtmlWhat is compulsive hoarding: www.childrenofhoarders.com/coh24.phpintro to compulsive hoarding: www.ocfoundation.org/hoarding/about-hoarding/compulsive-hoarding-syndrome-introduction.phpHoarding, a successful compulsion: www.ocfoundation.org/hoarding/about-hoarding/hoarding-a-successful-compulsion.phpEditing to add: there are more links about hoarding and professional research in my third post on this thread about videos. That would be the 10th post on the thread -- labeled "reply #9".
Hoarding vs. Collecting:Please read this link for good checklist of differences between unhealthy hoarding and heathy collections: www.childrenofhoarders.com/hoarding_collecting.phpMy own ideas for examples showing Hoarding vs. Collecting: One example of my self-damaging hoarding: I've saved every email I've ever received in the past FOURTEEN YEARS. Why, I don't know. I don't read them. I don't need them. They are filling up space on my hard drive. But I'm unwilling to let go of useless stuff. My computer BROKE recently due to my trying to cram too much data (old emails, useless photos, and outdated documents) onto my tiny ten-year-old hard drive -- and my unwillingness to use anti-virus software because it might take up too much room! A horrid trojan-worm thingy killed my computer, due to my neglect. My priorities were out of touch with reality. The anti-virus software was actually more important than decades-old data, but I couldn't see it. One example of my useful, practical collecting: I've saved all my website links about squalor and hoarding.
I actually USE these links frequently, have them organized, and I share them with others. A fictional example of unhealthy yarn hoarding: A hoarder's approach to yarn would be to have tons of it piled everywhere, but not know what was where. And the stuff would get dusty and torn and have food spilled on it. And it would deteriorate before it could be used. It would be unusable. And she wouldn't show anyone her piles because of the mess. Rooms in her home would become unusable, and she'd keep buying more yarn. The yarn would remain in packaging and never be used. The family is aghast. The hoard OWNS her. True example of joyful healthy yarn collecting would be the room full of yarn here: mochimochiland.com/weblog/2007/07/the-worlds-biggest-stash/
It's HEALTHY and a "collection" because she knows where everything is, it's usable, she uses it herself, and she trades with friends and family members, and she is proud enough of her collection that she and her daughter-in-law posted pictures on the internet. She has parts of her home dedicated for the purpose, but in a proud and intentional way. The whole family celebrates it. She has FUN with it. More of my personal thoughts on hoarding vs. collecting: I think that a collection can be a source of beauty and pride, such as historic documents framed and proudly displayed. But when the collector becomes ill, or stressed, or elderly, she might not have the energy to maintain her collection in cleanliness, order, and display-worthiness. It might become a dusty neglected pile of broken things -- that she no longer cares about, but won't let go of. And then it might transition into becoming a hoard -- if she continues to compulsively acquire more items but doesn't care for them -- and merely allows them to pile up as ever-increasing clutter. NOTE: In some places in the world, the word "collector" is used as a euphemism for "hoarder". But in my essay here, I'm talking about healthy hobby collections when I say "collecting".
My thoughts on Compulsive Hoarding:To use my own words, I would say that hoarding sometimes means a compulsion to acquire items, but always means an unwillingness to get rid of items. And you are emotionally attached to the items, so therefore you are unable to let them go. You might feel compulsion to rescue items that others discard, so as to give the items homes. And then be willing to let the items go, even if they are useless to you. I would say that hoarding means that you take in more things than you throw out. And that results in clutter. Classical hoarding means the endless acquisition -- and refusal to discard -- to the point that the piles of possessions are dirty, broken, and useless. But due to emotional issues, or brains being wired differently, hoarders feel completely unable to get rid of the stuff. And the clutter piles up to the point that use of rooms is severely impaired. So ... I would say that clutter is a RESULT of hoarding. On one link I found on hoarding (I forget which one), it said that "normal" people sometimes acquire a few unnecessary items and sometimes have difficulty discarding items, but it doesn't have much impact on their lives. It's minor. The extra items don't take up much space in the person's home, nor do the items take up much focus of the person's energies. Whereas, with a hoarder, the sometime need to acquire and the everpresent fear of discarding -- is totally overwhelming. The compulsion saps the hoarder's energy, and it makes the home so full of stuff that the home becomes almost unlivable. =====================
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===================== SQUALOR:What the word "squalor" used to mean: Living in squalor is a expression that was formerly used to refer to old decrepit shacks and poverty. Oftentimes, it referred to shantytowns with no plumbing facilities -- or broken plumbing. Sometimes rats.
So ... decades ago, when I read the word "squalor", it was usually:
a description of a home in a crowded poverty-area that was falling apart, and often lacking basic sanitation.
Filth due to deprivation.
The word squalor comes from the adjective "squalid".
From the Webster's 1828 dictionary -- nearly 200 years ago.
1828.mshaffer.com/d/word/squalid
from The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition
Copyright © 2006 by Houghton Mifflin Company.
Here is what the word "squalor" means on Squalor Survivors and on Stepping Out of Squalor: What is squalor -- in the words of squalorers:www.squalorsurvivors.com/squalor/index.shtmlMeasuring squalor:
Very important to read this link. I cannot quote it because it's copywritten. Scroll down and start reading at the words "First Degree Squalor": www.squalorsurvivors.com/squalor/measuring.shtmlWe use the word "squalor" to mean various things. - It could mean a dirty, filthy house, but not many possessions.
- It could mean a clean house that was cluttered.
- It could mean dirty AND cluttery.
- It could mean psychological clutter.
- Trash and/or laundry left on floor for days/weeks/months.
- The bottom line was that the house was not clean and/or not orderly ~~ and therefore it was dysfunctional.
- Things fell apart. Repairs were not made.
- Items were lost.
- Visitors were not invited.
- Shame was experienced.
There are MANY causes of squalor. Some significant causes are listed here:
www.squalorsurvivors.com/squalor/causes.shtml
But those aren't the only causes of squalor.
In addition to those listed, I would also suggest "lack of cleaning skills and habits". For some of us, it's not a psychological issue. It's a complete lack of knowing how to do housekeeping or organizing -- to the point that we give up. Some of us WANT to have nice homes, but don't know how.
And then there's a few of us who simply didn't care that our home was a filthy mess. Lived that way for years and didn't care that squalor was socially frowned upon. Housecleaning seemed boring and irrelevant. Simple disinterest in cleaning up. Eventually, we had to change when we realized we could lose our rental lease. And then, after cleaning the place up, finally realized that it was enjoyable to have a nice home, and WANTED to keep the home nice.
For some of us, "perfectionism" and "demand resistance" are big causes of failure to clean.
Demand Resistance is explained here:
takeonestepatatime.proboards80.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=402
Some squalorers sometimes have no problem discarding items, but hate to clean. Whereas other squalorers love to clean but hate to discard items. And some hate both. Some just have trouble organizing things. Each squalorer is different.
Squalorers have many varied psychological profiles. Some of us have deep mental and emotional difficulties. Others of us are happy but just hate to clean/organize. We are all unique. =====================
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===================== DIFFERENCES BETWEEN HOARDING AND SQUALOR:Causes of hoarding: I would say that hoarding is usually caused by some psychological factor that is either a form of OCD or OCPD (see above hoarding links) or a psychological disease similar to OCD or OCPD.
Or else perhaps a deeply ingrained compulsion that was triggered by some triggering event such as a traumatic incident or having parents who hoarded.
Editing to add: See also the video link I posted in my third post on this page. Specifically the video by Dr. Gail Steketee which does list more causes for hoarding.
The psychological symptoms of hoarding always involve an unwillingness to let go of unneeded items -- because the hoarder believes she needs them or will need them, or will feel lost without them. Causes of squalor: Many types of squalor and many causes of squalor, as I've already listed earlier in this post. A wide variety of people and behaviors. Hoarding is a deep compulsion to keep things of no use, and a deep anxiety about discarding. Referring back to the dictionary definition of squalor I cited above, squalor is a "wretched condition or quality". Many sorts of wretched conditions would qualify as being squalor. In my personal opinion, hoarding is one of many forms of "living in squalor". But many squalorers don't hoard. (editing to add, I had some more ideas, please read my next post about squalor, a few posts down in this thread). -- Lioness - |
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Post by messyang on Feb 11, 2009 20:57:44 GMT -5
Well, I know that I AM NOT a hoarder. I wish I were. My home is just cluttered and dirty. I throw away bags and bags of garbage every stinkin' week, and yet my counters are dirty, my toilets are dirty , and there is paper on the floor, as well as clothes, and other articles . Often, I throw things away I need or want, because it is dirty or the cat peed on them. My floors are dirty, my dishes are piled in the sink. My tub has a ring around it. I have cobwebs all over. I am not collecting anything except dust and dirt. And I am ashamed. I wish I had a collection of some sort.
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Post by Arid on Feb 11, 2009 21:48:54 GMT -5
messyang: If you think that being a hoarder is the same thing as having a collection, then you have *COMPLETELY* missed the point!
A collector is someone who is proud of his or her collection(s) and loves to show them off to people. A hoarder hides his or her accumulations and lives in terror that someone might so much as touch them! The dynamics involved are very, very different.
There is nothing at all to stop you from starting a collection this very minute, if you so desire. You can choose whatever it is that you wish to collect--comic books, teapots, pictures by a particular artist, etc. A hoarder, on the other hand, doesn't have the option of *not* collecting/hoarding. It is an on-going, merciless compulsion. It usually isn't limited to just one kind of object. It is a compulsion to *collect* anything and everything that might possibly ever be useful some day. The hoarder completely overlooks the fact that the extreme amount of possessions renders all of them virtually useless--just as Lioness explained about how things become lost in the milieu, broken, dirty, and ultimately worthless. The hoarder still sees them as being every bit as valuable as if they were bright and shiny, brand-new.
Collecting as a hobby is fine, but I wouldn't wish hoarding on anybody.
Arid
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Post by skatters on Feb 11, 2009 22:02:50 GMT -5
In my own words...
Hoarding is an extreme compulsion to save or collect things. To the point where it interferes with normal usage of an item or room of your house. From what I understand, hoarding is can be related to OCD.
Squalor is filthy living conditions. Although I will say that everyone has a different idea of 'filthy'.
I consider myself a messie, not a hoarder. Not that it is any better or worse.
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Post by moggyfan on Feb 11, 2009 22:04:34 GMT -5
I know we are not supposed to use the "L-word," but I honestly believe my apartment fell into true squalor because I am L.; or more precisely, I *used* to be L about laundry, dishes, and all manner of housekeeping matters. I think I subconsciously felt that because I worked soooo hard during the week, I shouldn't have to spend my evenings or weekends doing yet more work.
I know I am neither a collector nor a hoarder. The junk that filled my house was mostly...junk. Once I really committed myself to the Big Desqualoring, I had no problem getting rid of stuff; in fact, it was a great relief. I also had a ton of nice stuff that had been my mother's--it was pretty, some of it was expensive, but to me it was all a monumental weight. I just do not live the kind of life where people use crystal goblets or silver finger bowls or fancy-dancy china. It was easy to let all that go.
I have great compassion for those who truly are hoarders and who struggle to make a decision about each individual item. I cannot imagine the difficulty of that time-consuming and emotionally wrenching process.
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Post by CourageouslyLion SeeksSerenity on Feb 12, 2009 5:49:56 GMT -5
-
SQUALOR:
What the word "squalor" used to mean:
Living in squalor is a expression that was formerly used to refer to old decrepit shacks and poverty. Oftentimes, it referred to shantytowns with no plumbing facilities -- or broken plumbing. Sometimes rats.
So ... decades ago, when I read the word "squalor", it was usually:
a description of a home in a crowded poverty-area that was falling apart, and often lacking basic sanitation.
Filth due to deprivation.
The word squalor comes from the adjective "squalid".
From the Webster's 1828 dictionary -- nearly 200 years ago.
1828.mshaffer.com/d/word/squalid
from The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition
Copyright © 2006 by Houghton Mifflin Company.
Okay, I have some more thoughts on this. As I mentioned in my earlier post in this thread, on Squalor Survivors and on Stepping Out of Squalor, we use the word "squalor" to mean any sort of housekeeping chaos. It can be filth in a sparse, near-empty home. It can be a clean shiny but cluttery home. It can be disorganization. It can be simple clutter, or deep filth, or disrepair, at varying levels, as per the link I gave to "measuring squalor". Squalor has many different variations, and many different causes. So after my original post, I did some more thinking ... to try to figure out what this is all about. I found the wikipedia link for squalor: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diogenes_syndromeWho was Diogenes of Sinope? en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diogenes_of_SinopeI found this naming explanation on some other websites: I learned that Diogenes Syndrome was named after the philosopher Diogenes ... BUT ... the articles explained that "Diogenes Syndrome" was not named because of his philosophy. He was actually a famous philosopher and quite decent. The "syndrome" was named after the way he lived -- a beggarly fellow who slept in a barrel, engaged in scandalous public habits, and supposedly "gave people the finger". He sometimes went naked. He tried to shock people into realizing that their class distinctions and social mores were often conventional habits -- but not based on anything of intrinsic value. I laughed when I read that. I think that he would have really hated Martha Stewart and sneered at the idea of "keeping up with the Joneses". He actually lived in exaggerated self-imposed deprivation, to demonstrate that we don't need lots of "trappings". The philosopher Diogenes of Sinope was the opposite of a hoarder.So .. in 1975, some geriatric researchers were studying squalor. And to characterize such slovenly, derelict behavior, geriatric medicine gave squalor the name "Diogenes Syndrome". Ironically, medical professionals use the name "Diogenes Syndrome" to mean both squalor with the INCLUSION of hoarding. That was probably because when the syndrome was first named, researchers knew very little about hoarding, and even less about the type of squalor we discuss on Squalor Survivors and Stepping Out of Squalor. Researchers couldn't see the difference in those days. What medical professionals mean by Diogenes Syndrome is what they often find in the homes of elderly people, as follows: To sum up: We have three different definitions of "squalor", as follows:- 1) Back to my earlier comment that in the old days, the word "squalor" referred to filth and disrepair -- caused by deprivation.
By "deprivation", I refer to lack of sanitation facilities, and lack of adequate housing. Usually due to extreme poverty. Often because one is a member of a marginalized sector of society, forced to live in a shantytown. These living conditions are often involuntary.
- 2) We have many very different types of squalor on Squalor Survivors and Stepping Out of Squalor -- clutter, messiness, filth, disorganization, chaos, hoarding, disrepair, etc., etc., etc. Some of are obsessively clean, yet others of us have extremely filthy homes. Many struggle with clutter and disorganization. Many of us resist self-discipline. Some of us are self-deprivers, yet others of us hoard. Each of us has different symptoms. But we all live in varying levels of "housekeeping chaos" -- which is what we mean by "squalor" here.
- 3) The articles on Diogenes Syndrome (a.k.a. "Senile Squalor Syndrome") which mention:
extreme self-neglect, severe hygienic neglect, domestic squalor, self-imposed isolation, refusal of help, and marked indifference or lack of awareness. (Sometimes with hoarding tendencies added in).
What do these three different definitions of "squalor" have in common?
My answer: Deprivation and Neglect.- Sometimes, we are forced to neglect the upkeep of our homes due to extreme poverty, great tragedy, severe abuse, or critical illness. Yet, although we may be blameless, the end result is that upkeep is neglected. Sometimes we can do our best, but the squalor remains. All we can do is continue to do our best -- and continue to hope and pray for better opportunities, better employment, and a better place to live. Even if it cannot happen overnight, we can keep hoping and praying. If possible, we can reach out to others for support. We must not give in to despair, as that would let deprivation win.
- Some of us have debilitating injury or illness, but are still capable of living life. But ... we don't believe we are capable of cleaning. We haven't learned tricks like cleaning for 5 minutes at a time, or cleaning while sitting on a rolling stool, or using a special grabbing stick to pick up items. We continue to believe that it's hopeless, and therefore don't try. We neglect our homes.
- Some of us have stressful jobs which require us to work very long hours -- and we have very little free time. We don't believe we are capable of cleaning. We crave rest and recreation. We haven't learned tricks like cleaning for 5 minutes at a time, and we are too tired to ask the children to help. We continue to believe that it's hopeless, and therefore don't try. We neglect our homes.
- Sometimes, our conditions improve, but we are stuck in the trap of "deprivation thinking" and "neglectful patterns" -- and therefore don't realize we can improve our homes. We continue to neglect our homes.
- Even with plenty of garbage cans, we continue to throw trash on the floor.
- Even though we have plenty of money, we don't discard the rotten food in the refrigerator.
- Even though we have laundry facilities, we don't wash our clothes.
- Even though we have plenty of free time, we feel overwhelmed by the idea of cleaning house.
- Even though we can afford it, we don't rent a Dumpster ("skip"). We don't borrow or rent a truck (lorry) to take our stuff to the dump (tip).
- Even after we've culled our belongings (and we have kept ONLY the books and paperwork we actually use), we refuse to buy adequate bookcases and file cabinets. Everthing continues to lay in piles, because there's no "specific place" for anything.
- We allow inertia to settle in. We go months without cleaning the bathroom or washing the dishes.
- We continue to live in a state of neglect.
[/blockquote] [/li][li] Some of us strive to improve. But we have patterns of resistance to self-discipline, or we lack skills and practice cleaning. Instead of reaching out for help, and asking questions, we give up. The neglect continues. [/li][li] Some of us don't believe we are worthy of a nice home. We continue to live in self-imposed deprivation. We don't clean up and therefore, we don't call for repairs when needed. The house falls apart. We continue to neglect it. [/li][li] We live in isolation and fear. We thus deprive ourselves of friendships and relationships. Which is certainly a form of self-neglect. [/li][li] We often neglect our medical care and personal hygiene, and we eat unhealthy food. Our automobiles are unmaintained, dangerous, and full of crap. We deprive ourselves of healthy bodies and decent transportation. More neglect. [/li][li] After a while, all these patterns of deprivation and self-neglect start mushrooming. The squalor worsens. We become more depressed and/or stressed. We feel even more overwhelmed and give up entirely. [/li][li] Those of us in low-level squalor, who are mainly just coping with clutter issues -- we still have problems with neglect. We deprive ourselves of clear tables. We deprive ourselves of organized files. We have too many dishes that we never use -- and therefore we allow those dishes to deprive us of needed space in our kitchens. [/li][li]  Whether low-level clutter, or high-level squalor, we are neglecting our homes. We are neglecting our right to a nice home. We are depriving ourselves, our families, and our pets of joyful, efficient, comfortable, welcoming living conditions.[/li][/ul]
UPDATING: HOARDING vs. SQUALOR:In my opinion, "full-fledged Compulsive Hoarding" is when we feel compelled to endlessly aquire items, we ignore the items, the items fall into filth and disrepair, we are unable to discard useless items, and we continue to acquire more items. We are unable to see anything as useless. Yet ... there is no joy involved. Just a never-ending hunger for stuff. And a great fear of losing it. And embarassment about showing it to anyone. The hoard is huge and takes over our lives and our homes. Yet we don't realize there's a problem. Some of us have "Hoarding Tendencies" -- when we start acting like a compulsive hoarder, but it hasn't (yet) completely taken over our lives or our homes. We have great trouble going through boxes of stuff. We know it's trash, but that nagging voice of "What if there's something important in there?" keeps us from discarding the whole box. But we are sane enough to realize this isn't rational, and we seek help. The main factor in hoarding is "anxiety and fear about discarding items". One is afraid of being deprived of stuff. This is a false fear, as one already has too much stuff. There is no deprivation. Just an irrational fear of deprivation. The main factor in squalor is "neglect and self-deprivation". The methods of neglect vary widely, but the end result is that one has deprived oneself of the right to live in a nice home. -- Lioness - |
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Post by dayeanu on Feb 12, 2009 10:16:11 GMT -5
Here are some links I and others have posted here recently: Dr. Phil’s show on Extreme Hoarding (on UTUBE): TLC - Help! I’m a hoarder Stop Clutter from Stealing Your Life clutterless.org/index.htmlReading under the Psychology heading was interesting. |
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Post by CourageouslyLion SeeksSerenity on Feb 12, 2009 10:36:54 GMT -5
- Documentary about hoarding ~~ told by hoarders in their own words:"Possessed" No fancy intros. No host of a TV show. No fancy music. Just four hoarders showing their homes and telling their stories. Editing to add: IMPORTANT:
If anyone reading this is not a messy person,
but just lurking for informational purposes --
if you're a
researcher, filmmaker, psychologist,
or friend-of-a-messy-person --
Please note that the stories of messiness, squalor, and hoarding that have appeared on Oprah, Dr. Phil, etc ...
are often highly sensationalized.
Please take what you see there with a lot of grains of salt.
Such shows want to either advertise big chaos to get ratings,
or do big clean-ups to get praise. But ... they often don't delve into the deeper issues ... and therefore ... the messy person never really learns to change his/her life.
I liked the "Possessed" video because it just showed hoarding without sensationalizing it.
-
If there are any readers lurking who don't have their own messiness problem, but want to learn about our issues, here is some more info:.more info on hoarding: Dr. Sanjaya Saxena who is one of the leaders in the field on topic of hoarding: Biography: dgsom.healthsciences.ucla.edu/institution/personnel?personnel_id=8811info on hoarding: www.ocfoundation.org/1005/m110a_003.htmDr. Randy Frost is one of the other leaders in the field on topic of hoarding: Here is his website, which mentions his helpful book "Buried in Treasures". www.science.smith.edu/departments/PSYCH/rfrost/And also: www.ocfoundation.org/1005/m100a_001.htmDr. Gail Steketee is another leader in the field. Her website: www.bu.edu/ssw/about/facultystaff/faculty/profiles/steketee/index.shtmlHer online video presentation on hoarding: www.bu.edu/phpbin/buniverse/videos/view/?id=95This is a respectful video, in that she showed the full video to acedemic students who wish to help hoarders, but she blacked out some of the personal portions to "audio-only" -- blacked out for online viewing -- so the online version goes back and forth from full video to audio-only, in respect for her clients' privacy. Here are the three most famous books: www.ocfoundation.org/hoarding/book-reviews.phpAnd it doesn't say it there, but two of them now have therapists guides and/or workbooks to go with them. You can probably find links on amazon.com etc. Don't even attempt to say you know anything about hoarding until you've read those books (or have been a hoarder yourself). Here is a review of one of the three main books: www.squalorsurvivors.com/resources/overcoming-compulsive-hoarding-review.shtmlAnd one more book: "Too Perfect" ... it is mentioned in this thread: takeonestepatatime.proboards80.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=402- |
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Post by dayeanu on Feb 12, 2009 10:41:45 GMT -5
Lioness, as always, your links are very interesting and helpful. I've visited the first couple, took the test, made a very high score  (no one is surprised.) Will continue to visit and read. Have to make some changes. Don't want to end up like my cousin. |
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Post by puppybox on Feb 12, 2009 14:04:36 GMT -5
Here's my 2 cents:
The home of a hoarder and a "squalorer" can look the same. Its both squalor.
Hoarders have a compulsion to save/collect things, that is why their home is like that.
A person living is squalor who is not a hoarder has a variety of reasons for the situation. They may be very conscious of not wasting anything and thus also save and collect like a hoarder, but it hasn't escalated to the point of being a mental illness. (I think there is a scale.) Or, they may not save and collect at all, but have depression and can barely get out of bed. Or, They might have been busy takign care of elderly parents and/or young children and/or saving the neighbourhood stray cats and/or working 60 hours a week and it just got behind and now it is too overwhelming/time comsuming to deal with.
But I think it can look exactly the same. Or it can look different.
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Post by clearwaterush on Feb 12, 2009 15:40:39 GMT -5
Excellent post! My hubby's parents were hoarders. Due to the great depression, they held onto everything in hopes they might need it someday or help others out when they needed something. Items from plastic glasses from eating out places with the styrofoam containers were carefully washed and stored, these people never turned down free thing that were given to them. Boxes upon boxes of items were put up in their garage, bedrooms, where ever they would fit. The old man took in unusable junk cars and buses to store the clothes, shoes, and item given to them. "Ma" saved plastic bread wrappers and the ties that they were tied with. Spices were given to them to use(which they didn't). I could go on and on-and oh yes, one more thing-they thought their might be a use for the used paper towells after they got done with their meals, folded in fourths and stacked neatly in a cornor on a desk....Welll she died and gave the house and land to her daughter. Her daughter kept a few items and soon called my husband and I to come to look through her stuff and take for free what we wanted...We arrived in the front door and her and her husband had a mountain high stack in the living room..I was mortified! We took probably 2 boxes of stuff and they took the rest of it to the dump that day. I did tell the daughter if she would give me all of ma's pictures and any papers of notes and scraps written on anything(and Ma had a ton of it!) I would do the family tree for her and give her a free book! I was so afraid she would throw these out! I got what I wanted and was very glad.
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Post by creativechaos on Feb 13, 2009 3:53:20 GMT -5
great thread, and lioness, as usual; spot on! thank you so much!
totally agree with this: clutter is a result of hoarding.
squalor is a result of hoarding or/and cluttering combined with neglect.
to correction a misperception: some hoarders will not let anyone touch their stuff, but many *want* the stuff to have homes, they *want* to give it to people and to help others. they just have so much of it that it becomes buried, thus hindering their decision making.
some hoarders won't let you touch or handle theirs stuff. they have attachments to the stuff and a fear that if they let someone touch or borrow it, the stuff will get lost or damaged or used up, unable to be replaced. but there is more than simply not wanting anyone to touch their stuff (or discard it *for* them -- the absolute worst thing to do to a hoarder). it is the fear and shame that people will see their stuff and judge them harshly, which people often do.
making decisions on what to keep is hard, as well as the fact that hoarders tend to have overly complex ways of categorizing things and information.
many hoarders *know* they have a problem and *want* to do something about it; not all are oblivious to it. many are painfully aware of it. it can be agony to throw out a single useful thing such as a paper clip or rubber band, and there is a need to handle everything even down to the minute tiny thing. that is partly the ocd.
i checked out the clutterer guy's's website and found little difference between a hoarder and a clutterer, other than logistics. he didn't seem to know that much about hoarding, and what he knows is not accurate and too simplistic. frost, steketee, and saxena are the people to read for accurate and compassionate information on hoarding.
there are levels of hoarding, just as in alcoholism or squalor. there is denial that the problem is really as bad as it is. many don't see their hoarding as a problem. but i think that many more do feel the pain of it, suffer greatly and feel powerless, demoralized, and hopeless.
hoarding almost always leads to squalor. squalor does not always lead to hoarding. squalor is bad habits or good habits never learned. hoarders have overwhelming urges to "hunt" for things and get a "high" from finding and acquiring. it's a drug, and the urge is almost constant, so they have trouble NOT acquiring. that is coupled with the unwillingness and inability to part with things or the inability to decide what to part with. hoarders have distorted emotional attachments and distorted thoughts about their things.
there can still be squalor without hoarding, because squalor is neglect, including neglect to throw things away, put things away, or make "homes" for things.
cc, a hoarder
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Post by lilith on Feb 13, 2009 5:56:07 GMT -5
I am both.
For me:
Squalor: I have a hard time keeping my house usable.
Hoarding: I panic and sometimes feel like I will literally die if something gets thrown away.
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