eternal
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Joined: September 2008
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Post by eternal on Dec 24, 2009 5:19:35 GMT -5
I'm a long time lurker here (and at the old board) and very occasional poster. I'm very ashamed of the way I live, which is why I haven't posted more. I still don't think I can talk about the big picture yet. So this is a small part of the picture, just something I noticed today during one of my regular attempts to clean and sort.
I don't use my storage space, my cupboards, cabinets and drawers. I don't have a lot of storage space at all, but what there is, I don't seem to use properly. The storage spaces are full of stuff, but it's not stuff I use. I've been using stuff outside the cupboards, and never putting it in the cupboards. I have just thrown out a whole lot of stuff from my kitchen cupboards that had expired. I do that regularly. But while that food has been sitting in the cupboard expiring, I've been buying new food, to use. The clothes in my drawers are not clothes that I wear. I seem to stop wearing them once they're put away. The same goes for all the other stuff. Out of sight, out of mind. Once it's been stored away, I stop using it. I have a cupboard where I keep stationary items, for instance. I know they're there, but I never get them out when I need them. I buy new stationary items. It's the same with everything. I have a cabinet full of cleaning products which I don't use and which have been there for years. I buy and use new products which I leave out on various surfaces. I could go on, but you get the picture - it's exactly the same for every storage space in my house.
It seems as if I like to fill up all my storage spaces, and then I seal them off and don't use them. Anything that should go in those spaces but which I use regularly, is kept outside of those spaces. This is a revelation to me. It's only a tiny part of my problem, I know, but now I understand a little bit of why I live in a mess. If I'm behaving like this, it doesn't matter how much storage I have - the storage will always be full up, and the stuff I use will always be lying about outside the storage.
This is strange behavior, isn't it? Does anybody know why I'm doing it? Does anybody else do it? Has anybody done it and managed to stop doing it?
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Post by CourageouslyLion SeeksSerenity on Dec 24, 2009 5:53:58 GMT -5
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From what I've read on these forums over the years, I think that many people have this issue to some degree.
I think the issue is that some of us need to be able to "see" our stuff.
Heck, even "normal" people have occasionally have issues with vegetables rotting in the vegetable drawer in the refrigerator. They sometimes forget the veggies are there. They tend to use the more visible foods first. They may discover/remember the veggies sooner than we would, and might clean up the mess sooner than would. And the forgetfulness for them doesn't happen as often as it would for us. But it happens sometimes.
Some of us need to "see" our stuff. If we don't see it, it doesn't exist. I don't know what causes our brains to function in this way. But this phenomenon has been written about. I've seen articles posted on the forums about it (although I can't think of one offhand).
I know that, for me, putting clothes in dresser drawers doesn't work. It's too hard (for me) to go through folded piles to know what I want to wear.
I have to hang ALL my clothes in the closet. Then I can just look at the closet and easily SEE what I have. Needless to say, sometimes I leave the clothes closet door open.
Have you considered using shelving instead of cupboards? Or just taking the doors off the cupboards?
For paperwork, I have similar issues that are too complicated to write about in a single post. I'm beginning to find solutions, but it's difficult to put into words what I am discovering about that. I'm not even sure I've found the answer.
Anyhow, I just wanted to reply that you are NOT alone in this!
I'm hoping that MANY more members will reply with ideas.
Hugs,
Lioness
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spiritwalk
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Post by spiritwalk on Dec 24, 2009 7:32:19 GMT -5
Hello! I have the same issue in varying degrees in different areas of my life. Seems if things are in my kitchen cupboards I don't have as much of problem remembering I have them (other than spices, I have duplicate spices!). But in other areas I am one of those 'vertical' organizers, such as paperwork or tools. Tools are the worst. For me I think it is because I use what is in the kitchen most often and I see the insides of the cupboard often enough to know what is there. But if I put something away in a box I can forget it. I've been trying to label the boxes and that helps. I don't forget the holiday things for instance because they are in distinctive red and green boxes. I do prefer my clothing on shelves or hanging so they are visible and have been able to do that with some of my clothing. Otherwise I am pursuing the strategy of less is more; that is, if there is less in the drawer I will be more likely to see what I want. So I am thinning out my clothes and getting disciplined about putting them away so I HAVE to look in the drawer for underwear.  Sometimes I feel that subconsciously I am saving things for the future because it is comforting to have something in reserve. I know what you mean about expired food; my canned goods are in a pantry that isn't as accessible as my cupboards and I've decided that I am going to move it to open shelves in the basement so I can SEE it. As Lioness wrote, know you are not alone. For me, the first step was recognizing the issue and really wanting to make a change. Spiritwalk |
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Post by brightbeginning on Dec 24, 2009 7:40:46 GMT -5
I am the same way with paperwork. You should see my office at work!! A disaster! Because if I file something away, I might not know where to find it again! The easy stuff-I do file away, like paid bills. But with my business, I am always getting in different pieces of mail, and I leave them out because I just don't know where to put them. I have vowed that in the New Year I will clean up my office, but I'm just looking for a solution that will work for me. Some of my staff make jokes about the mess, and it really offends me.
Debi
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fatiha
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Joined: December 2009
Posts: 26
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Post by fatiha on Dec 24, 2009 9:17:32 GMT -5
Dear Eternal,
I'm so glad you posted this. You are definitely not alone. I realized several years ago that chests of drawers are evil. My husband doesn't get it, wishes I would just cram stuff into drawers like he does. (Of course, he loses things in the drawers pretty often!)
Like Lioness, I have to HANG clothes. I would hang my underwear if I could figure out a way! Hanging not only is much more soothing to me than drawers, but it seems more practical: the garments can get air, so they stay fresher; it's much easier to re-order (!) them to pack for a trip or change season (or size...); they can be stared at to your heart's content, but then a door can be closed (not in my house, usually, but at least it's theoretically possible!), or a wardrobe zipped shut, or a curtain or sheet thrown over the rack for a quick-and-dirty cleanup/coverup. I use nice, matching hangers in my favorite color. They look pulled-together and cheer me.
And of course shelves are also far superior to drawers. Sometimes -- when the phase of the moon or whatever is just right -- I put things, ideally RELATED things, but whatever -- into clear boxes to put on the shelves, to keep dust off and keep the things from running away and making more messes. A trick I sometimes employ is to put pretty colored paper (construction, etc.) on ONE side of the box, for privacy and prettiness. I can expose the clear side, or turn the solid side outwards, as I wish.
You've inspired me, I might just go do some of what I'm describing here! Thank you again, and Happy Holidays to all.
Fatiha
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Post by cosmic1 on Dec 24, 2009 11:23:20 GMT -5
eternal, you are definitely not alone in this. I have had the same problem, to varying degrees, all my life. Out of sight, out of mind,  . For me, I have learned that I need to keep related items together, so I can remember. For example, in 2 of my drawers in the bedroom, I keep my navy, brown and black tops together and in the other drawer, I keep my colored tops together. I sort them by color too, so all the white ones are together, all the blue ones, etc. I also have to organize my closets by type, so I keep all my skirts together, all my pants together and then I organize those further by color, if needed. I keep all my cleaning supplies under the kitchen sink. I find that I keep related items together and the categories very simple, I can remember where things are. I've seen on some of the organization shows a neat trick for tracking shoes. They take polaroids of what pair is in the shoe box and tape it to the outside. Something like that could work throughout the house too. I hope this helps. Please don't feel ashamed; I think this is a pretty common challenge for most people. |
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Post by CourageouslyLion SeeksSerenity on Dec 24, 2009 12:36:37 GMT -5
I've seen on some of the organization shows a neat trick for tracking shoes. They take polaroids of what pair is in the shoe box and tape it to the outside. Something like that could work throughout the house too. I used to be a nanny. I found that that "tossing all the toys into one big bin" was disastrous. Why? Because ... Even though it was easy clean-up at end of day (Toss everything into one bin) ... it actually made things harder overall for the children. It made life difficult because they had to dump the entire bin out every time they wanted a toy. So ... even if they just wanted to play with one or two things, there was complete chaos. Pieces got lost, toys got unused. Eventually, the kids stopped using the toys in the big bins. They got ruined or outdated. And bedroom chaos was constant. They asked for new toys because they couldn't "see" the ones they already had amidst the jumble. When I started working at preschools, I was amazed to see how they do it ... They label bins and shelves with pictures of what goes inside. When there are pictures of Legos on a bin, the kids put all the Legos in that bin. When there are pictures of crayons on a bin, the kids put all the crayons in that bin. Cleanup is easy, and FINDING THINGS IS EASY. Nothing gets damaged. It occurs to me that this might be a metaphor for us adult messy people. When all my kitchen stuff is crammed randomly into cabinets -- or piled high on kitchen counters -- I can't find anything. Or when all my paperwork is in a huge bin, I can't find the most recent bills. I have to DUMP. EVERYTHING. OUT. TO. FIND. ANYTHING. Pieces get lost. Bills remain unpaid. Chaos reigns. I think I might try something like this. I might label shelves with what goes where. My labels could be with words ... or even with pictures, as mentioned above with the shoebox label system. I don't care if it looks like a preschool. If it helps me, why not? Hmmm ... perhaps I could label my dresser drawers with pictures of what goes inside them? Who cares if it looks odd ? It would be better than leaving a mess all over the place.
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Post by CourageouslyLion SeeksSerenity on Dec 24, 2009 13:05:50 GMT -5
This topic has me fascinated.
A whole other perspective just occurred to me.
Perhaps it isn't aways about wanting to "see" stuff.
I wonder if it is ... that if we have stuff put away, we fear to take it out of the cabinet/cupboard ... because ... it's all stacked/crammed in there so neatly ... that we don't want to take it out ... because we doubt our ability to put it away again?
Or perhaps it's about how it feels like "a lot of trouble" to take stuff out of a cabinet ... and it feels easier to just buy new stuff?
I haven't heard either of these ideas before, but it occurs to me that perhaps my brain does these things sometimes.
For me, its a parallel to going to the restaurant to buy a "to go" meal ... sometimes I find that easier than taking a frozen dinner out of my freezer and microwaving it. Logically, it would be more work to drive to the restaurant. But my brain can be illogical and think that I would have to use "AMAZING" organizational skills to microwave a simple dinner.
Hmmmm. Some things for me to think about.
Why do our brains function/dysfunction in this way?
How can we use these odd ways of viewing the world ... to our advantage?
There are ways to make such "differentness" into strengths.
NOTE: I hope many other people will continue posting with ideas and insights.
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Post by mellowyellow on Dec 24, 2009 14:40:23 GMT -5
Oh, I do the same thing.
In fact, not only do I have misused storage space... but I have entirely empty dressers and drawers. I have lots of storage, but it is poorly used. I don't know why I do it, but I have an idea...
For me it's partly because I can't decide what should "live" in those spots. So I don't put anything in them, and the stuff just accumulates outside, on a chair, or on a sofa, etc. It's as if I want to find the "perfect" spot for everything. So I avoid making the decision, and I avoid putting things away.
I am also one of those people who forget what we own when it's out of sight. I am getting better with that, but it's still a surprise sometimes when I open a closet that I haven't seen in a while. Often I find useful things that I just forgot I owned.
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Post by howardsgirlfriend on Dec 25, 2009 1:25:53 GMT -5
Hanging up underwear? How about a multiple skirt hanger? You could add extra clothspins if desired.
Clear plastic shoeboxes are my best friend for this problem. They fit nearly everywhere. Much easier to put things away if I have a clear box--they allow me to reach the items in the nether regions easily, keep things from falling over or leaking on my cupboards, and they're cheap! I often don't use the lids--I treat them more like a basket.
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eternal
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Joined: September 2008
Posts: 57
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Post by eternal on Dec 25, 2009 3:43:12 GMT -5
Thank you for your replies. It's good to know I'm not alone  . The idea of having things in sight really struck a chord with me. My surfaces are covered with things that "need" to be there because I need to see them to remind me to do something. Of course, there are too many things that I need to see, so they end up getting covered with the more urgent things. I love the preschool idea, with the labels, and the idea of clear plastic containers. At the moment, I'm trying to avoid buying more storage stuff until I get the house sorted (I sound as if I'm going to sort it out in the next week or two but in reality, I've been working on it for years, taking steps backwards and forwards). But when/if I get organised, that might help me to stay that way. I too have difficulty deciding what should go where. I'm very bad at that. Some things end up where I use them (which is practical, at least), whereas some things are just anywhere - impossible to find, scattered. Where should I keep a small sewing kit? I wish I knew because I have no idea where I do keep it. Yet another thing that I'm going to have to repurchase. So maybe I do feel reluctant to disturb any storage space which has some sort of order. Better to close the doors and leave it alone. There's a different issue with food (and possibly some non-food things too, now that I think of it). I seem to worry about running out of things. I like to have at least two of everything, which means that I can't use up one of those two things because that would leave me only one until I could get to the shops and replace it. Better to store the two away, and buy new things to use. This habit means that I have a lot of almost finished packets of things, because I can't finish them until I buy another replacement. If I have only one of something, I'm really reluctant to use it, and will tend to keep it until it expires. So maybe I'm deliberately using the cupboards to stop myself using things. For some reason, I want to have that food, to keep it, rather than actually eat it. When I'm tidying, I worry about getting stuff out of the cupboards to sort, because it often seems to make things worse. I end up having piles of stuff outside of the storage place, and have to make decisions about what needs to go. I'm likely to give up before the job's finished and end up in a worse state. So at the moment, I've been trying to sort stuff which is outside of storage rather than inside (but, of course, there's nowhere to put the stuff, sorted or not!). The food stuff is easier, because I'm a bit obsessive about anything which might cause food poisoning (in my imagination). So every now and then, I just throw most of my stored food out, clean out the freezer or cupboards, and start again. I overshop, and I'd estimate that I probably spend more on food that is thrown away than food that is eaten. I'm in debt, so this isn't a good idea. I can't hang clothes at the moment, because my small hanging space is filled with - you guessed it - clothes that I don't wear. It's also difficult to get to because there is stuff in the way. But I can see how hanging could work better for me. I like the idea of making differentness into strengths. I'll have to think about that. Mostly, it all just seems negative, but I agree that different ways of thinking can be useful. Thank you all. It's a relief to talk to people who understand. I worry because when I look at your pictures, some of your "before"s look like "afters" to me. But I suppose we all have something in common, no matter where we are on the scale. |
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Post by mellowyellow on Dec 25, 2009 9:52:29 GMT -5
Sometimes, I think I arrange parts of my house "for show". For some guest who never comes to visit. As if someone would happen to open a drawer or a cupboard and think, "Wow, this is so neat and tidy. And it's so coordinated." Or.. "Wow, this is so tastefully decorated. What a beautiful piece of art." When people come over, I almost find an excuse to have them open the fridge, or get something out of a closet, so they can notice how organized I am.
And yet, outside of those "perfect sections of neatness or decorating", there are still those area of clutter. Those areas that defy perfection.
It's all a farce really. Who on earth am I trying to impress? And how on earth can I impress someone when I still have so many other areas of clutter?
Sometimes I think I am doing this so that if I were to die unexpectedly, they would go through my things and notice that I DID know how to keep things organized and tidy, even though the other piles seem to indicate otherwise. And yet, who thinks like that?
Who seriously "sets up" a house in case of death? Initially I thought maybe I was reading too many stories of squalorees found dead under piles. But really, I think it's just a dichotomy of my personality. The "all or nothing" me. The messy and neatnik me. Wanting people to know who I really was. Like writing a diary for people to find. I never do that.. However, I realize I have always labelled photos in such a way that others in the future will understand the pictures. Everything is for some distant future that never arrives.
Lately, I have started to finish up bottles of shampoo and lotions, and for the last year or so, I've been using the "good" creams and things. Eating the "good" chocolates given to me, instead of always giving them away. It's a whole different way of looking at things.
I won't lie to you.. my drawers are still crazily neat. But I am forcing myself to put a variety of things inside. And to open them regularly. And to reorganize them. And to refold things. It's a whole educational process for me.
The biggest problem for me has always been linen, and I find that now that I have limited the "home" for my pillowcases, I am forced to limit the amount I have. It sounds like a minor issue, but I have gone from perhaps eighty pillowcases, to closer to fifty. And that number seems to be stable for now. For the first time ever. If I get a new one or two, I try to weed out a couple for donation. Equilibrium. I think that ultimately, that is what I seek in life.
And another thought.... perhaps I (we) have too much storage? And I shouldn't think about using it properly, but of getting rid of some of it???
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Post by mouseanne on Dec 25, 2009 10:55:25 GMT -5
Welcome, eternal!  You have some great suggestions here! Lion, i was thinking remove cupboard doors in kitchen, too. About the sewing kit, either in an endtable drawer near where you sit & mend things, or in the laundry room, when you see a garment that needs attention, grab kit & garmet set in TV chair. Or in a zipbag on a nail in closet, or in nightstand drawer, or in a dresser drawer... but always in the same spot... that is a squalorees issue, the putting away. And most of us, picked ONE thing to work on. The kitchen sink. OR the day's launchpad. OR the bed. And when you start your ONE thing... just give that ONE thing your attention, for maybe a month. But you will notice, that the cleanness of that ONE area starts to be contatious, and leaks to other areas. Mellowyellow, I admire your decision to limit pillow cases. I have lots, too , not 80 and not 50, but i have some cut out, to match my bedroom theme, and I plan to donate the off color ones... and the poly/cotton ones (trying to move to all cotton, more comfoirtable) My storage is all neat & tidy, drawers, cupboards, etc.. but i have huge decision making issues.... all the things that "have no home" sit around the house. eternal you are in the right place. We'll help each other.... and you will make bits of progress and be encouraged, and you will also comment and help us back... How it works here! Glad you joined the team. I typo'd in CHAT yesterday.... apologies to the men here... we are WOWMAN!!! hear us RAWR!!! |
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Post by wendy on Dec 25, 2009 18:39:04 GMT -5
Dear eternal,
I'm so glad you posted! You are definitely in the right place, and please remember that we are in all phases of squalor on this board. Some of us have extremely messy disorganized homes, and some are more in the maintenance phase. There are plenty of us who are JUST LIKE YOU!! In fact, I totally identified with your "not using storage" problem. I think this is a big issue for those of us with the "chronic disorganization" that the CPO's (certified professional organizers) are always talking about. It could occur for any of a number of reasons, from anxiety about deprivation to short-term memory problems to extreme visual orientation (some folks are so visually oriented that they can only learn or remember by SEEING things).
I think for me, the biggest problem is failure to remove the OLD stuff to make room for the NEW stuff. This is what I'm trying hard to work on. I pick a small area which I'd like to organize and then ask myself, Ok, what needs to happen for me to be able to put the sheets in the linen closet rather than keeping them on a bench in the front hall? Well, I'm going to have to remove things from the linen closet that don't belong there or that I don't use FIRST. So I work on that, and then when I've made enough space, I put the sheets in the closet, etc.
This may sound overly simplistic, but I find that I have to break the process down into small steps before I can make any progress. It doesn't come automatically to me at all. Sometimes I even write the steps I will have to take down, and then follow the instructions I've written to myself. For some reason, that makes it a lot simpler and easier for me.
And like you, I still have a long way to go...but together we can all do this, so I hope you'll keep on posting-- no need to be ashamed, especially on this board!!
Good luck to you, Wendy
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Post by xievajohnson on Dec 25, 2009 21:19:31 GMT -5
I've noticed this about myself, too. Only things I do not use end out in the drawers and cabinets, the stuff I do use is out somewhere that I can see. I've even [temporarily?] took the cabinet doors off in the kitchen. It looks funny, but I'm finding that I am able to assign homes better when I can see all the potential homes at once. I also just took everything that is still hanging in my dd's closet out - her "in use" clothes don't seem to make it into the designed storage spots either. I'm starting to think that the modern, clean lined storage solutions are designed for magazines photos and people who are bothered by clutter. They really don't work for me at all. The closets, the bureau drawers, the kitchen cabinets, etc, none them work for me. Bins and shelves work much better. I hope others have some good ideas for you!  |
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