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Post by ohblondie on Oct 27, 2010 20:14:28 GMT -5
 OK. Bear with me as I muddle thru the best I can. "Scuse any typos....it is dark and I am too *** to fo get my glasses........ OK> I have been a member on these boards (and SS) for years. I struggle with issues like everyone here. I have too much stuff and can't part with it easily. Usually I am clean underneath it all. 9 times out of 10- my counters are wiped, my dishes are done. Laundry is usually done- though not always folded and put away. Garbage is usually picked up and taken out and bathrooms are usually clean (I hate dirty bathrooms so they are usually always clean) But I am on this board because you can;t walk thru my living room and the rest of my house is goat trails. I have had hte occasional mouse or two- but never bugs. (ie roaches) Well, I have a two family house that I rent out. The people that rent it are related to each other. The woman upstairs has been there since May. She has 4 kids and the house is always clean. I decided to accept social servies for her rent- because she appears to be a good mom and clean. (Catch the irony?) Her mother and father and young nephew live downstairs. They have lived there for several years- and pay their rent in cash- but pay significantly less than upstairs. I really like this lady. I enjoy sitting and talking with her- She is not the best housekeeper- she has several health issues (obseity, diabetes, cancer scare, lung problems) but I see past that and just really enjoy her company (I am obese and and probably pre-diabetic as well) Well- she allowed another daughter to move in with her. this daughter has 4 kids and the daughter does not supervise them well. Is it specifically stated in the lease that no one else is to be living there- but I felt bad becasue she was evicted and had no place to go with the kids. And teh place is even more of a mess now. Well- upstairs tenant has called because she found roaches. I am not sure if they moved in when the other daughter moved her stuf in- or if they came in another way. My husband was at teh apt last week to fix the furnace and saw spaghetti on the ceiling. Now- the upstairs daughter is threatening to move out- because she does not want to live with the bugs. I agree- I would not want to live with them either. I dont want to lpse the upstairs tenant because she pays more- even though she has lived there less time. dislaimer- I am paying a mortgage on this house and I have to treat it like a business- and that is the business thing to do. I do not owe anyone free rent.... OK= so- I have to go talk to the downstairs tenant and tell her that she needs to clean up her apt. She needs to empty cupboards and wipe counters and get rid of trash. I know deep down inside I might have to evict her if it does not get cleaned up. I have to call an exterminator- who will tell me he can spray all the time- but until teh mess is cleaned up- it won;t be effective. I fell very conflicted- because while I am an ok housekeeper and I am fairly clean- I have way too much stuff. And I feel weird telling her to do what I cannot seem to do. But I cannot aford to have my property overtaken by roaches. It is an investment property and I will either sell it or move back into it once the kids are gone. Iam so nice- such a pushover. She lived there three years before I raised the rent and it was only $25. They are paying way under market value for the apt. But they have allowed it to become run down looking (we keep the physical property up- it is just junky and dirty outside and inside) Argh....I dont know how to approach this. And I am,starting to feel like they are taking advantage of me.....I don;t owe the homeless daughter a free ride forever... I am starting to ramble here. I guess I need to figure out how to approach it- what to actually say. And then I need to get my butt in gear here!!!!! I need help on both fronts from all of you- who understand!!! (
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Post by momofgirls on Oct 27, 2010 20:53:43 GMT -5
I think the wisest thing for you to do in a business sense is to take care of the rental by having a firm talk with the tenant. Maybe send a letter to follow up the discussion. If you don't get rid of the roaches and the upstairs tenant moves out, who would you be able to rent it to in that condition. Just because you may have some SOS issues, does not mean you need to feel guilty for holding someone else up to a certain standard. You are allowed to be messy. The upstairs tenant does not deserve the downstairs tenant's mess. It is ok to separate your own issues with theirs.
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haven723
New Member
Joined: October 2010
Posts: 14
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Post by haven723 on Oct 27, 2010 21:00:34 GMT -5
I think you are right...you have to treat this issue like a business. It doesn't matter how you live - the way you live isn't affecting anyone else or violating rules. If you had the same set of rules and rented from someone I am sure you would be respectful of that arrangement.
I understand the difficulty - it is hard to not sympathize and want to work with people. However, you have a home to protect - I have seen homes DESTROYED by renters and don't want that for you.
One suggestion. I don't know how costly this might be so that will be a factor. What about hiring a manager? The new manager could reinforce the rules for you. The tenant would need to deal with the manager for all future issues and complaints and that would leave you in a more anonymous situation where you could live without this stress. Just something to think about.
I'm sorry for the stress and hope you can find a solution. You have to do something - it won't be easy but better to address it now than to let it linger.
Best wishes!!
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Blackswan
Banned
Joined: October 2008
Posts: 6,388
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Post by Blackswan on Oct 27, 2010 22:21:31 GMT -5
The first thing I am wondering about is: What are the laws as far as the number of people living in one dwelling? They just added FIVE extra people, that's gotta be a health concern when you think about sanitation. I believe there are laws regarding the ratio of people to bedrooms and bathrooms. i am sure it is slightly different everywhere, you would probably have to look that up where you live. Two: How many roaches are there? Is it a full on infestation, or has the lady only seen like five to twenty of them upstairs? With a smaller amount of cockroaches it is manageable to simply put out the contact baits (do not spray anything or the baits won't work, an exterminator himself told me that) and they will be gone shortly. I am not sure what amount is manageable on your own, and for what amount you have to call the professionals in, but it would be a good idea to find out how bad the situation is so you know what you are dealing with. Its ok to tell the people downstairs that they need to keep all the nasty trash taken care of, the bug bringing kind of stuff. Tell them that you understand that they have a lot of people living there, and you have been willing to allow it because you don't want the kids to go homeless (but first look into whether or not it is legal, and then decide if you are willing to break any laws to allow this) BUT they absolutely MUST not have any trash out that will bring bugs. You can even specify that you don't mind if there is clutter or other mess, just nothing organic (if that is ok with you). You can also set a limit as to how long the family of FIVE! can stay there, you don't have to let them live there forever just because they have hit hard times. I think you might even be able to ask for additional rent? You probably wouldn't want to, you sound very kind and nurturing, but maybe you could request an additional amount that would cover the cost of an exterminator performing regular pest control services after the initial treatment, or whatever other costs you may incur because you have FIVE! extra people there. I have no clue about being a landlord, of course, just my thoughts on it, if anything helps you, go for it, if it doesn't apply, feel free to ignore of course.  |
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Blackswan
Banned
Joined: October 2008
Posts: 6,388
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Post by Blackswan on Oct 27, 2010 22:25:24 GMT -5
PS:
If the other daughter with four kids was evicted, maybe it was for a reason? I don't know if it was rent related or mess related, BUT this doesn't have to be your problem just because you happen to have a home to rent out. Mom, Dad, and Uncle and this other woman can all pitch in and move into a place that is big enough to accommodate all of them. They have four adults there that can figure something out, you are just one person trying to take care of them. They will figure out a way if you decide its not your problem and they need to handle it.
Did they just move the lady in without telling you first, or did they ask before they moved her and the four kids in? If they just moved her in, how did you find out about it? Just curious, plus it would be telling about what you can expect from them later, regarding how much they will take advantage/be respectful.
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Post by messymommy on Oct 28, 2010 9:27:48 GMT -5
Hi Blondie. After reading about your problem, the first thing that strikes me is what a caring and compassionate person you are. It is lovely reading about people who care deeply for others, especially children.
However, I think your gut instincts are telling you that there is more involved here. It sounds like you have struggled with squalor yourself and you are for the most part in maintenance. Having been there, you feel hypocritical taking action because of the way other people's squalor is affecting your property and the other tenants there.
My opinion is that you need to go with your gut. We all know how squalor wrecks our lives in many ways. Getting a handle on it is one of the hardest things we can do. But it is necessary. Especially where children are involved. The roaches are affecting the quality of life for all the children living there.
You are right - unless the squalor is removed, no amount of insecticide will get rid of them. That means the people upstairs cannot get rid of this problem. So you can either ask the woman with the children downstairs to move out, or the woman upstairs will leave. If you choose not to make any decision, it will be made for you. The woman upstairs will leave for the health of her children, and then that apartment will be unrentable. And the roaches will get so bad that even the downstairs people will eventually go. And you will be stuck with cleaning up the whole mess. Can you afford that? Can you handle that?
I hear your pain about this and I applaud you for being a person who cares so deeply about others in rough situations. But sometimes, we have to make hard decisions, taking into account the needs of everyone involved, including ourselves!
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Post by DJ on Oct 28, 2010 10:11:40 GMT -5
I think you need to protective yourself from financial ruin.. Tenant situations can go very bad, very quickly and be very costly to remedy.
On the bright side for this woman not only are you kind and compassionate and concerned but you have an understanding of what that kind of situation can be like. You have the chance to be a wakeup call for them about their squalor and give them external motivation to clean it up but you also have the ability to do so without being demeaning, or cruel to them in the process, and you can help them understand what the requirements of what you're requesting are.. Instead of being the terrifying landlord who belittles them and just tells them to, "clean it up" you can give them guidelines so that they can know and understand, you can understand the need of setting reasonable guidelines that meet your needs without asking the impossible of them.. and you can bring up your concern about the number of people residing there as well as looking into the legality of it as black swan suggested...
guess I'm just saying you really need to look out for yourself, if they ruin the place, make it unable for you to pay your mortgage and you were to lose the property they'd still end up homeless. but you can manage to do it in a compassionate way.. for what it's worth i doubt the downstairs tenants are happy with the issue of roaches and increasing squalor and if you're having a difficult time addressing the topic with them i'd imagine it would be even harder for the mother who allowed her daughter to move in to address it...
I don't think it's an unkindness to ask someone in squalor to remedy the situation if it is doing damage to your life.. I think the unkindness is in how it is so frequently done, with out compassion or understanding...
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lmc
New Member
Joined: October 2010
Posts: 13 
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Post by lmc on Oct 28, 2010 10:39:46 GMT -5
Hello,
I think you need to kindly tell these tenents they must clean up for the benifit of everyone living there. Just because you have some issues does not mean that your tenents can ruin the entire building with their messiness. To me, it seems like you have some guilt about your issues and may worry that you are being a hypocrite if you ask them to clean up. You are not! You are protecting your business and everyone living there! Let me give you an example from the field in which I work - counseling- I can truly help my clients improve their lives even if I have issues of my own. Just because I have an issue does not mean that I am not a good counselor who is able to help others. You are doing the same thing; just because you have SOS issues does not mean that you are unable to help others address their messy ways. In fact, your issues give you more compassion then the average landlord. You must protect your home and business interests.
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Post by BetsyMarie on Oct 28, 2010 18:06:50 GMT -5
I also think you need to do something. I don't know what is best - whether you approach them yourself, or hire a manager (even temporarily) to do it for you.
What I would suggest if you decide to talk to them yourself is to write down very clearly what you expect your tenants to do - whether it's having the extra family move out, or they clean their part of the house (and it must pass your inspection on xx date), and any other specific deadline times. Make two copies and make sure you leave one with the tenant so there can be no doubt of what you have told them and expect. If you think it wise, have whoever you talk to initial the copy that you keep.
Having it clearly written down will also help you remember everything you want to say since it might be an emotionally charged situation for you both.
I don't envy you, but it's your property and investment and you need to take care of it for your future. How you yourself live makes no difference.
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Post by juniper2 on Oct 28, 2010 20:54:11 GMT -5
I just wrote a whole thing and it got erased! grrrrrrrrrrrrr Good rule I've followed: never mix personal feelings, compassion, etc. w/business. If they are all related then there could be some other reason than the roaches going on. Just a thought. Maybe good tenant knows they are paying more rent...and it is unfair...you're doing a favor for the other and not abiding by the agreement that was set 3 years ago. It's important to not get involved in any possible family disputes that you are or are not aware of. It is important to be a person of your word, keep the agreement on the rental. 3 people...not 8 are to live there. In short, I would set up a written 30-day notice with the condition that the daughter and 4 children move out within 2 weeks, which was a violation of the original agreement and state that in the written notice. Also add the condition that the premises must also be cleaned within two-weeks. If this is done, they may stay or if they choose they may move out by December 1st. This way you are giving them a choice which is not heartless. Social Services can help the daughter w/4 kids or maybe there are some other relatives they can move in with. But it really should not be your problem. One needs to take care of themselves and survive or you really can't help others...unless you want to go down with the ship. Gee the post I lost wasn't so cut and dry. Just protect yourself ohblondie. How you feel about your own living conditions really should not get intermingled with the business end. If you let others not keep their agreements with you they lose respect for you and will always take advantage. You don't only lose money but your self-respect as well. Good luck on whatever you decide to do.  |
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