|
Post by larataylor on Oct 25, 2014 15:19:11 GMT -5
Having each other is HUGE!
Anyone else notice a sense of peace when the DH is away for a while? Mine goes off for days or weeks at a time. And when he's gone, he's not doing anything, but I'm not expecting him to, either. I do it myself, or ask someone else. And the someone elses say yes or no, but when they say yes, they almost always do what they said yes to. (Of course, DH is not there *making* messes, either.) But going it alone makes me feel more powerful and more connected to people outside my home.
Expectations are just so irritating. So I try to maintain the "alone" mindset when DH is here (not easy). I try to just go ahead and do whatever I can do without asking or expecting anything from him, as if he's not even here. And sometimes he'll come looking for me and help with something, but of course, that shouldn't be an expectation!
People who are extremely demand resistant may need complete "demand silence" for a long time before they figure out that they actually want to do something.
|
|
|
Post by TML on Oct 25, 2014 16:25:57 GMT -5
I am really feeling such low self esteem right now. I hate myself and I feel like the most horrid mother in the world. My husband is a master at avoidance behavior. My husband blew off this same friend four times when said friend was asking my husband for help moving. (often blaming this friend for making poor life decisions and my husband wasn't going to "bail him out") It was only after volunteering to help me and making a commitment to me, that my husband saw the error of his ways with his friend, and helped him with his trash. Then when he got home and I was justifiably upset he told me it was my fault that he left (because I am so angry all the time and he knew that I was going to be mad when he got home) and that he didn't feel bad about not helping me because I didn't care about him anymore. I have always had self-esteem issues but they have grown worse over the years. My husband has gone so far as to take pictures of the squalorous basement and said that things would get ugly in court if if we divorced and I didn't split the children up between us. and how did he think taking pictures of the squalorous basement was going to benefit him in any way? He lives there so he owns that basement too. I would be tempted to put a sign on the mess with his name on it X's garbage pile and then hand him a copy of the picture for his digital collection of in case of divorce photos. Of course that would not help anything. You are not horrid, you are just overwhelmed with no help and what is worse a pain in the rear spouse who is worse than no help. I would also suggest reading lostchild's posts.
|
|
|
Post by desireelafleur on Oct 25, 2014 16:59:55 GMT -5
Having each other is HUGE! Anyone else notice a sense of peace when the DH is away for a while? Mine goes off for days or weeks at a time. And when he's gone, he's not doing anything, but I'm not expecting him to, either. I do it myself, or ask someone else. And the someone elses say yes or no, but when they say yes, they almost always do what they said yes to. (Of course, DH is not there *making* messes, either.) But going it alone makes me feel more powerful and more connected to people outside my home. Expectations are just so irritating. So I try to maintain the "alone" mindset when DH is here (not easy). I try to just go ahead and do whatever I can do without asking or expecting anything from him, as if he's not even here. And sometimes he'll come looking for me and help with something, but of course, that shouldn't be an expectation! People who are extremely demand resistant may need complete "demand silence" for a long time before they figure out that they actually want to do something. I feel awful that I seem to be pinning this state of this house on my husband. I know a lot of it is me. I should just learn to drive the stupid truck. I should call a dumpster. I should get up at a reasonable hour and sleep at a reasonable hour. I shouldn't spend so much time on the computer....but I am human. People place expectations on me and sometimes I fail but I really do try and I certainly don't make life harder on others than I should...my husband keeps a list of things I don't do right. I gave him the "silent treatment". I forgot to fill the icecube tray. I washed plastic in the dishwasher. I let the laundry pile up. He has even lifted the couch to show me how messy it has gotten underneath. Pulled stuff out from under the bed and left it for me to deal with. Today I asked for no one to put anything on the kitchen table because I wanted to use my sewing machine...it's covered with computer parts...he said that he would bring the trash out and left it at the top of the stairs. I really feel like I am being manipulated and sabotaged. This isn't right. He is not depressed. He is able bodied. He has the time. I just don't get it.
|
|
|
Post by lostchild on Oct 25, 2014 17:40:23 GMT -5
He is a jerk. Don't depend on him. You tie your emotions into someone who has no interest in helping you. Untie them and go forward with or without him You will feel better!
|
|
|
Post by hurricane on Oct 25, 2014 17:56:38 GMT -5
You two seem locked in a battle of wills right now....I've been there myself with my spouse. One of you is going to have to be the hero here and stop the cycle. This is going to be painful, so the job of cleaning might help distract you (try not to stew at him while cleaning, which is my bad habit). Start by asking him for NOTHING. I mean NOTHING....go on that way for weeks, even months if necessary. Just do it all yourself, or hire it done, or ask a friend to help, whatever. If he asks you to do something, nicely say that you're involved with your own projects for the moment and won't be able to help him for the time being (it's imperative to try and say this nicely and not with snark). After some time goes by your hubs will see you working and cleaning, and more importantly, he'll realize you didn't ask/nag/demand him to do anything either...this might start to diffuse his anger and resistance. In the end he may never clean but your relationship will improve. I understand this is not fair and that you're the one doing all the work. The thing is he's not going to do it and he's made that perfectly clear. By doing this exercise you could get a clean house and maybe a better marriage out of the deal. If you don't change your behavior though nothing in your house will change and your marriage will continue to be stressed. It's up to you to take the reigns....it's hard, but a lot of times it's better than sitting in the misery that's currently stewing. Trust me, I have sat in a lot of misery and decided action was way better! Have you ever red Fivecat 's story? She also had to do it herself, with a non-helping spouse, and she was up against many obstacles. See link below: takeonestepatatime.proboards.com/thread/123/hi-fivecat
|
|
|
Post by TML on Oct 25, 2014 22:48:01 GMT -5
I feel awful that I seem to be pinning this state of this house on my husband. I know a lot of it is me. I should just learn to drive the stupid truck. I should call a dumpster. I should get up at a reasonable hour and sleep at a reasonable hour. I shouldn't spend so much time on the computer....but I am human. People place expectations on me and sometimes I fail but I really do try and I certainly don't make life harder on others than I should...my husband keeps a list of things I don't do right. I gave him the "silent treatment". I forgot to fill the icecube tray. I washed plastic in the dishwasher. I let the laundry pile up. He has even lifted the couch to show me how messy it has gotten underneath. Pulled stuff out from under the bed and left it for me to deal with. Today I asked for no one to put anything on the kitchen table because I wanted to use my sewing machine...it's covered with computer parts...he said that he would bring the trash out and left it at the top of the stairs. I really feel like I am being manipulated and sabotaged. This isn't right. He is not depressed. He is able bodied. He has the time. I just don't get it. You should not feel bad. I got a good laugh over the fact that he can't lift a finger to help but he can find the time to make a list of things he thinks you don't do right and lifted up the couch. I would be tempted to tell him to get out of his diapers and put his big boy pants on and I am not his mother. There comes a time when he just either has to man up or be a child for the rest of his life. You cant be the only one in the family responsible for "happiness" everyone needs to pull their weight and work as a team or lay off the list making. at this point you probably realize what a jewel of a wife your husband has and he would not have it nearly as good with others. Now I am not saying it can't drive you crazy. My mother drove me up the wall until I told her I had it and while I loved her and did listen to her I was going to just treat her opinion in the same category as the cat's. If she wanted to complain about how I was reorganizing the cupboard, I would listen to her but my level of concern would not be "omg she is criticizing me, what is wrong with me, how can I make it right". It would be listen with my ears but in my heart what I would hear from her as I was working on it was meow, meow, meow. It took me years and years to hit that wall where I just decided life was short, I was doing the best I could, and if anyone wanted to be a pain rather than help then I would do my best not to give their opinion weight to wound me personally. edited: actually I think he is l a z y, controlling, and has self esteem issues. If he can keep you off balance with "your failings" then he can feel superior and does not have to deal with you feeling good about yourself and the situation and maybe you looking at his faults and thinking you can do better. You need to motivate him to be a partner in the household and to basically grow up and start living the life you both deserve but maybe the others here can help with how to do that -- give some advice. My BF does not give me any grief. He knows what I put up with my mother and I don't have a long tolerance fuse for BS anymore.
|
|
|
Post by cyn on Oct 25, 2014 23:23:05 GMT -5
Desiree, if you want to really have a great laugh, imagine we've switched places! For one thing, I can only drive standard - weird, huh? Our truck is an automatic, and I'm afraid to drive it. I'd be all over your truck, having a blast with the stick - he'd never get a chance to drive it. And if he wanted to lift the couch to prove a (worthless) point - LMAO, I lifted mine once and found a mouse skeleton. My cat must have left it to crawl away, and she couldn't squeeze under there, so then the bugs got to the carcass - all that was left were the bones. Yay, wouldn't he just love that! Oh, and I took a picture of it too, right up his alley! I also run plastic through the dishwasher with every load - how else do you clean it? His computer parts would be in a box, hiding beside the couch. Is there enough paper in the world for the list he'd have on me? Oh, and he'd be *begging* me for the silent treatment! He's a very lucky man to have you.
|
|
|
Post by desireelafleur on Oct 26, 2014 9:48:16 GMT -5
I feel awful that I seem to be pinning this state of this house on my husband. I know a lot of it is me. I should just learn to drive the stupid truck. I should call a dumpster. I should get up at a reasonable hour and sleep at a reasonable hour. I shouldn't spend so much time on the computer....but I am human. People place expectations on me and sometimes I fail but I really do try and I certainly don't make life harder on others than I should...my husband keeps a list of things I don't do right. I gave him the "silent treatment". I forgot to fill the icecube tray. I washed plastic in the dishwasher. I let the laundry pile up. He has even lifted the couch to show me how messy it has gotten underneath. Pulled stuff out from under the bed and left it for me to deal with. Today I asked for no one to put anything on the kitchen table because I wanted to use my sewing machine...it's covered with computer parts...he said that he would bring the trash out and left it at the top of the stairs. I really feel like I am being manipulated and sabotaged. This isn't right. He is not depressed. He is able bodied. He has the time. I just don't get it. You should not feel bad. I got a good laugh over the fact that he can't lift a finger to help but he can find the time to make a list of things he thinks you don't do right and lifted up the couch. I would be tempted to tell him to get out of his diapers and put his big boy pants on and I am not his mother. There comes a time when he just either has to man up or be a child for the rest of his life. You cant be the only one in the family responsible for "happiness" everyone needs to pull their weight and work as a team or lay off the list making. at this point you probably realize what a jewel of a wife your husband has and he would not have it nearly as good with others. Now I am not saying it can't drive you crazy. My mother drove me up the wall until I told her I had it and while I loved her and did listen to her I was going to just treat her opinion in the same category as the cat's. If she wanted to complain about how I was reorganizing the cupboard, I would listen to her but my level of concern would not be "omg she is criticizing me, what is wrong with me, how can I make it right". It would be listen with my ears but in my heart what I would hear from her as I was working on it was meow, meow, meow. It took me years and years to hit that wall where I just decided life was short, I was doing the best I could, and if anyone wanted to be a pain rather than help then I would do my best not to give their opinion weight to wound me personally. edited: actually I think he is l a z y, controlling, and has self esteem issues. If he can keep you off balance with "your failings" then he can feel superior and does not have to deal with you feeling good about yourself and the situation and maybe you looking at his faults and thinking you can do better. You need to motivate him to be a partner in the household and to basically grow up and start living the life you both deserve but maybe the others here can help with how to do that -- give some advice. My BF does not give me any grief. He knows what I put up with my mother and I don't have a long tolerance fuse for BS anymore. TML, maybe I am wrong but you also understand that your mother has a hoarding issue and that much of her behavior stems from that. I don't know where my husband's issue's stem from...for a long time I just made excuses (sometimes in the moment I still do) for his behavior but when I do that it keeps me attached. hurricane I think I gave up on my marriage a long time ago. I know what my reasons are for staying but unfortunately affection for my husband is not one of them. I try to focus on the house and cleaning here, but there is so much I don't write because, truthfully the pity party would go on for ages. In my head I want to be able to disengage and just do what needs to be done and not stew. I can't seem to help it though. I can't seem to not stew and be pleasant to my husband when I am not cleaning. Mostly because when I am not cleaning I am usually cleaning up after another crisis whether it be health related, parenting related, work related. There is no balance to be found anywhere in my home that I can focus on...*sigh* I have been noticing that certain messes trigger my anxiety more than others...like the litter boxes. I love my kitties but being honest, if and when they pass away, I will not get another one. At least not living in the type of atmosphere I am living in now.
|
|
|
Post by desireelafleur on Oct 26, 2014 9:56:32 GMT -5
Desiree, if you want to really have a great laugh, imagine we've switched places! For one thing, I can only drive standard - weird, huh? Our truck is an automatic, and I'm afraid to drive it. I'd be all over your truck, having a blast with the stick - he'd never get a chance to drive it. And if he wanted to lift the couch to prove a (worthless) point - LMAO, I lifted mine once and found a mouse skeleton. My cat must have left it to crawl away, and she couldn't squeeze under there, so then the bugs got to the carcass - all that was left were the bones. Yay, wouldn't he just love that! Oh, and I took a picture of it too, right up his alley! I also run plastic through the dishwasher with every load - how else do you clean it? His computer parts would be in a box, hiding beside the couch. Is there enough paper in the world for the list he'd have on me? Oh, and he'd be *begging* me for the silent treatment! He's a very lucky man to have you. My husband has many snakes and reptiles. Sometimes they escape their tanks and the one of the cats will find them for us. Sometimes the cats don't and the poor things die. Sometimes we find shedded snake skin and my husband doesn't bat an eye. If we were to ever find a mouse skeleton he would flip. It's not so much that this truck is a standard, I think, so much as the utterly awkward way I have to sit. In order to push the clutch in I have to sit uncomfortably close to the steering wheel. If I put the seat back to give my arms more room to steer, I can't reach the shifter. Plus, since it is an old truck there is a lot of play in the wheel and the shifter. I don't think on a car I would be having this much trouble....
|
|
|
Post by TML on Oct 26, 2014 10:24:36 GMT -5
Yes, I know Mom is a hoarder and a squalorer. I am also a squalorer when I am depressed though I only have a little hoarding tendency (it sort of got knocked out of me with hoarding overload) The assisted living place called me up a while back to talk to me about it as she is trying to do it there too. They said "Do you know we think your mother may be a hoarder." I was like "really?, asked them what she had been up to". It seems among other things she wanted to save the little plastic pill cups they were using to give her pills. They said Mom told them she wanted to use them to make Christmas tree crafts. She was planning on collecting them all, spray painting them green, Getting a board (also painted green, red, and white like a tree scarf) and super gluing the green pill cups upside down and then decorating them with more paint and stuff like tree hangings, and then spraying them with fake snow. They finally had to tell her they only use one pill cup per person and constantly reuse them with her name written on it. So they could not give her the pill cups. We had a whole house full of similar "crafting" supplies but I never saw Mom paint or glue anything. Mom was also bugging me about bringing this and that over and since her room looked fine (and I was not paying too much attention) I would bring over a few items now and then on her list. It seems they were/are having to store some of her stuff (overflow) in the basement. Mom was also ordering this and that for her rooms. A lot of the fights Mom and I had was over her not wanting to get rid of anything or wanting me to do anything but then complaining that the house was a disaster and it was my fault. Also, me going O.o when I spotted more QVC or HSN boxes on the porch. I finally cleaned out her sewing room which was so full of stuff packed taller than my head that I had to stand outside the doors and just do it a little at a time. Over 40 bags of trash came out of the room and at least 18 boxes of goodwill/crafting group supply donations. A couple of my friends are serious crafters and have a crafting group which I go to from time to time and chat (it meets a local pizza place). They helped me find homes for all the crafting extra supplies since I only kept what I thought I might use in a reasonable time frame. It also got them thinking about their stashes as one had a long talk with her husband and kids who were fine with her leaving her stash in her updated will to one of the other crafters. I kept three of the sewing machines. One I gave away. Mom also has one sewing machine and her felter at the assisted living place. Sometimes I feel they need to rename the local trash dump in my town after me for all my donations. edited to add substory about sewing machine I donated... So my friends were helping me finish up the sewing room and one said what are you going to do with 4 sewing machines and I said it was 5 and a felter. She said you really need to consider donating one of the smaller, simpler ones, that is not an antique or etc. I told her Mom said to keep them all. My friend said you don't sew what are you really going to do with them... I thought about it and said "open up a sweat shop and compete with China". My friend gave me a look and said no really what are you going to do... So I donated one to a women's shelter house.
|
|
|
Post by hurricane on Oct 26, 2014 10:27:54 GMT -5
Des, you have a PM (private message).
|
|
|
Post by larataylor on Oct 26, 2014 12:05:00 GMT -5
My mother drove me up the wall until I told her I had it and while I loved her and did listen to her I was going to just treat her opinion in the same category as the cat's. If she wanted to complain about how I was reorganizing the cupboard, I would listen to her but my level of concern would not be "omg she is criticizing me, what is wrong with me, how can I make it right". It would be listen with my ears but in my heart what I would hear from her as I was working on it was meow, meow, meow. It took me years and years to hit that wall where I just decided life was short, I was doing the best I could, and if anyone wanted to be a pain rather than help then I would do my best not to give their opinion weight to wound me personally. OMG, I love you!!!!! This is so great! It isn't so much the *not helping* that makes me crazy, but the *hindering*. And me listening and giving weight to the hindering. DH would say that making messes and not picking up was his "lifestyle preference" and it was just as valid as my preference … and I would actually consider that. And he would get angry if I touched his stuff. And then when we moved here, I had DBIL's issues to deal with, too. Now it's "our parents' stuff" that I don't have a right to touch. And of course I have my own stuff and my own messes, which I'm responsible for. And our DD's stuff and messes, which I'm at least partially responsible for, more so in the past than now. And I do slide into depression and do nothing for long periods of time. But these facts don't excuse other grownups in the house from cleaning up after *themselves*, and certainly do not excuse *hindering* me when I have the energy to clean up after everyone. I haven't quite reduced their words to cat-noises, but almost. Thanks so much for that image, @tml.
|
|
|
Post by lostchild on Oct 26, 2014 19:18:14 GMT -5
I thank god that while I live with a hoarder I got up courage and tossed a bunch of stuff and he never missed it.
He is disabled and I have conservatorship! It has been so much better for him and us!
|
|
|
Post by desireelafleur on Oct 27, 2014 6:54:07 GMT -5
It has become apparent to me that certain things trigger major anxiety in me. My anti-anxiety meds help but sometimes the build up is so slow that I don't think to take one until I am having a melt down or posting here. I feel better now. There is a low level anxiety because H has a job interview today and he is not awake and I don't know what time the interview is. Which requires a choice on my part..wake him or let him sleep? When he sleeps in I have low level irritation with him. When he is awake interacting with him is even worse. I have sowered and dressed and started a few small chores. I want to take advantage of time before H and little DS wake. Big DS is already at school....
|
|
|
Post by desireelafleur on Oct 27, 2014 7:04:15 GMT -5
Yes, I know Mom is a hoarder and a squalorer. I am also a squalorer when I am depressed though I only have a little hoarding tendency (it sort of got knocked out of me with hoarding overload) The assisted living place called me up a while back to talk to me about it as she is trying to do it there too. They said "Do you know we think your mother may be a hoarder." I was like "really?, asked them what she had been up to". It seems among other things she wanted to save the little plastic pill cups they were using to give her pills. They said Mom told them she wanted to use them to make Christmas tree crafts. She was planning on collecting them all, spray painting them green, Getting a board (also painted green, red, and white like a tree scarf) and super gluing the green pill cups upside down and then decorating them with more paint and stuff like tree hangings, and then spraying them with fake snow. They finally had to tell her they only use one pill cup per person and constantly reuse them with her name written on it. So they could not give her the pill cups. We had a whole house full of similar "crafting" supplies but I never saw Mom paint or glue anything. Mom was also bugging me about bringing this and that over and since her room looked fine (and I was not paying too much attention) I would bring over a few items now and then on her list. It seems they were/are having to store some of her stuff (overflow) in the basement. Mom was also ordering this and that for her rooms. A lot of the fights Mom and I had was over her not wanting to get rid of anything or wanting me to do anything but then complaining that the house was a disaster and it was my fault. Also, me going O.o when I spotted more QVC or HSN boxes on the porch. I finally cleaned out her sewing room which was so full of stuff packed taller than my head that I had to stand outside the doors and just do it a little at a time. Over 40 bags of trash came out of the room and at least 18 boxes of goodwill/crafting group supply donations. A couple of my friends are serious crafters and have a crafting group which I go to from time to time and chat (it meets a local pizza place). They helped me find homes for all the crafting extra supplies since I only kept what I thought I might use in a reasonable time frame. It also got them thinking about their stashes as one had a long talk with her husband and kids who were fine with her leaving her stash in her updated will to one of the other crafters. I kept three of the sewing machines. One I gave away. Mom also has one sewing machine and her felter at the assisted living place. Sometimes I feel they need to rename the local trash dump in my town after me for all my donations. edited to add substory about sewing machine I donated... So my friends were helping me finish up the sewing room and one said what are you going to do with 4 sewing machines and I said it was 5 and a felter. She said you really need to consider donating one of the smaller, simpler ones, that is not an antique or etc. I told her Mom said to keep them all. My friend said you don't sew what are you really going to do with them... I thought about it and said "open up a sweat shop and compete with China". My friend gave me a look and said no really what are you going to do... So I donated one to a women's shelter house. Yes, this is what I mean. You understand that your mother has compulsive tendencies and have learned that those tendencies are not a reflection of your behavior. You seem to have reached a sort of acceptance of this which allows you to make tough decisions like deliberately going through your mother's stuff. I used to try to label my husband similarly. OCD, ADHD, Depressed, addictive personality, oppositional defiant...and while he exhibits characteristics of all of these at some point in time I realize that I am not a doctor. He could have all or none of these things. I still can't make the mental shift that you have.
|
|