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Post by bobolink on Apr 26, 2015 17:42:00 GMT -5
It does make sense, though I don't know how to confront gently. I sometimes read things that don't sound right, but I usually let them go - I tend to be a bit too direct in responding to these things, and that is not helpful.
I've only seen someone question another poster rather than provide unconditional support a handful of times.
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Post by dtesposito on Apr 26, 2015 18:02:43 GMT -5
Does that make sense? Can we do both?
I hope we can do both, because the value of this site is limited if it's ONLY a place to be honest about your problems. There's a relief to being able to be honest, to find other people who struggle with exactly the same pattern of behavior, it makes you know you're not alone.
But part of the relief should be in seeing that people can improve, so if the site is being of the most value it should be inspiring people to keep working towards goals. Genuinely working, and sometimes that means facing the fact that the way we've been trying to do something isn't successful so we have to try something else.
The actual work of changing our ways is not always comfortable. Sometimes things are obvious to people listening to us but not to ourselves as we speak. It's better that we hear something in a loving way here on this site, rather than in a harsh way from someone in real life. Or, never hear it at all and die without ever having made our homes better. Or, if we're hurting someone else by our actions we need to know that too. When you're in the middle of a situation like severe hoarding or squalor you really can have blinders on.
I think it's all in the way things are said.
Diane
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Post by def6 on Apr 26, 2015 18:46:46 GMT -5
I think for a big group of potential "loners" -We do a great job of getting on here and encouraging one another. You guys are the Best!
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Post by wind on Apr 26, 2015 19:21:51 GMT -5
I've only gently confronted someone on here once over "that" sort of thing. It was a really unusual situation where her kids were being raised in squalor, and she felt ZERO responsibility to even TRY to take the FIRST babystep to fix the situation. She was just like "My kids are messy, so we're always going to be in squalor until they decide to stop being messy. The end."
I felt a responsibility to remind her that the onus to fix the situation was on HER, not her children to just MAGICALLY wake up one day and clean the house themselves and teach themselves how to be tidy.
I said what I said to her in love, as a parent who had BEEN that parent, and been one who worried about CPS and the extreme mess.
I was thinking "OMG, if CPS ever shows up and you say that to them because you believe it's the truth, they might not do the whole "You have 2 weeks to clean up, we'll be back, and if the mess is fixed, you're in the clear" thing I've heard they sometimes do. They might have just decided to yank her kids right then and there, because it was some obviously maladaptive thinking.
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Post by angela on Apr 27, 2015 1:55:07 GMT -5
I can understand people not wanting to post anything potentially inflammatory.I know we have many people here who have had hard lives and trauma and that may have taught them to keep their opinions to themselves. What I'm saying is, if that describes you (in general), at some point it would be good to try to overcome that, if you want to change that negative aspect of your life. This is a very good place to do that, because compared to other internet forums, the people here (with very rare exception) are pretty nice and accepting. AND, it's anonymous, in that you're not standing face to face with someone, which is much harder when you have a disagreement. So it's a good place to practice the skills of expressing your opinions, and learning that it's okay if someone has a different one than you do. Diane This has stuck with me for a couple of days now. I have been noticing my opinions about opinions. Mine and others. I am finding that I have very strong opinions about opinions, mainly that since I have not had the "right" to express my opinions and be heard or respected in many of my primary relationships (FOO, DH, etc.) I really bristle when I am in the presence of the strong opinions of others. Especially when their opinion is about me somehow. I encountered this today especially, spending time in the presence of a couple of the more opinionated people in my life. Some of the judgement was directed at me today and I'm still gnawing on the exchange. I'm not sure I'll ever be forthcoming with my opinions very much. It's interesting to me that the above quote is asserting that keeping ones opinion to oneself is a negative quality. Hmm. I'm not sure what I think about that! Not agreeing or disagreeing...just not sure I have an opinion about it!
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Post by ohblondie on Apr 27, 2015 7:21:19 GMT -5
Ally..I think we can do this and we should do this. There is a difference between supporting and enabling. THere are ways to support someone and still give them the push they need to face what needs to be faced and get done what needs to be done. It is a strengths based approach. You recognize the good, what has been achieved; then you approach what still needs to be done. Now I am going to give myself a swift kick in teh behind and get to my work!
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Post by better on Apr 27, 2015 7:40:41 GMT -5
ohblondie - you put it so well. Now
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Post by wind on Apr 27, 2015 7:50:17 GMT -5
I've just never personally seen the enabling here that a couple of people have said they've witnessed. That doesn't mean it never, ever happens - I go inactive from here for fairly long periods of time sometimes, so maybe it happened then. Or maybe I'm not reading the right threads. Or something.
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Post by jean on Apr 27, 2015 9:01:30 GMT -5
My problem is that I'm trying to dig out of level 3-4 and either I am alone in this or others are too embarrassed to talk about it. I follow a few people and read the intros in hopes of finding a kindred soul. That's about all I can do. Sparkle You are not alone. I am also in 3-4 (sometimes it feels like 7)degree squalor. I feel like since I joined last Aug I have accomplished so little. Not even sure I'm even maintaining and not making a bigger mess. I feel like the worst one here. Everyone else is making some progress or in maintenance with just some areas to clean. Maybe we can work together if that is helpful to you to make each other accountable for 1 thing every day. Don't feel obligated to say yes. Only if it works for you. I know you have been working hard at reducing your squalor. I find chat helpful but I haven't been on as much because I hate going on mobile. Hopefully my laptop will be up and running soon. Jean
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Post by ohblondie on Apr 27, 2015 10:03:45 GMT -5
better..Thanks Better! I just filed 4 things and threw some paper away! Now I am waiting for a conference call to start. jean.I bet you have many kindred spirits here - many might be too shy to speak up. It took me the LONGEST time to raise my hand and participate. It doesnt hurt - I promise!
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Post by def6 on Apr 27, 2015 10:55:59 GMT -5
OK, I'm about to step in it. There are a few members on here that really grind in the criticism and I feel are relentless and they just seem to enjoy "ganging up" You know who you are!! There are others ( Like Di) that are over being pleasant sometimes and want to keep it real. I have no time for the former …but I can really appreciate the latter (Di) There!
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Post by dtesposito on Apr 28, 2015 18:15:16 GMT -5
It's interesting to me that the above quote is asserting that keeping ones opinion to oneself is a negative quality.
Angela, I'm not saying that everyone should express every opinion they have, to everyone. That would be obnoxious at the least, and probably dangerous as well!
Keeping an opinion to yourself because you don't feel worthy of being heard, when it would really help you to express that opinion, is bad. Or, being so hurt by someone disagreeing with you that you stop expressing yourself--that's bad.
I know that these kinds of things come from a history of being ridiculed and beaten down. That's why I said this would be a safe place to try to express your opinion, because any opposition you would face here would be minor compared to real life exchanges.
This is sort of a side note, but I noticed something here by people who start a blog. It seems like most blogs start with some kind of --almost an apology-- or at least a detailed explanation of why someone is starting the blog. As though maybe they aren't worthy to start one, or maybe no one is interested in what they have to say. I don't participate in any other websites that have blogs, so I don't know if that's typical of all people starting them. But I have noticed that here--it seems people are more shy/tentative about expressing themselves.
Def 6, I agree, there are a few members who say things in a way that's not helpful. Not necessarily that what they're saying is wrong, but that their message will not be heard when it's delivered that way.
Diane
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Post by dayeanu on Apr 28, 2015 22:33:57 GMT -5
Sometimes in the name of "not enabling", members have triggered every PTSD nerve in my body. (I probably don't actually have PTSD, but well-meaning people can sure be upsetting sometimes.
I don't think we need to be told that squalor is ok, but honestly, most of us have already been so beat up, verbally and sometimes physically, that I don't think most of us need confronting. We know we have a problem, or we would not have sought out this forum.
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Post by razy on Apr 29, 2015 0:57:25 GMT -5
OK, I'm about to step in it. There are a few members on here that really grind in the criticism and I feel are relentless and they just seem to enjoy "ganging up" You know who you are!! There are others ( Like Di) that are over being pleasant sometimes and want to keep it real. I have no time for the former …but I can really appreciate the latter (Di) There! I would hope that if there were people here who enjoyed ganging up on others and grinding in the criticism in a relentless way that they themselves were held to task. I do not believe this forum is never about critism. I think this forum can be about holding people accountable, if that is what they want. I think this forum is always about support.
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Post by Ally on Apr 29, 2015 11:11:01 GMT -5
dayeanu, I have remember reading posts where people were critical of your 8 minute method. It really tore me up inside, because I knew how excited you were that you had found something that was working for you, and I don't think those who were criticizing took the time to read through and understand that your method wasn't just 8 minutes a day. I do think we need to be careful not to criticize people who genuinely seem to be working on their problem. People benefit more from encouragement than criticism. On the other hand, I have been known to confront a couple people here, because it seemed to me that they were not being honest, for instance writing in one thread about not having money to pay for basic needs, and another talking about spending money on things I would consider frivolous. I may have been out of line, but that type of thing really bothers me. def6, I think I may have been involved with the "ganging up" once or twice in a situation like that. I will try to avoid that in the future. It's not what I want to be known for. Have we hijacked this thread enough?
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