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Post by dtesposito on Nov 30, 2015 14:34:56 GMT -5
So...do you think there are people who have just an average or bare minimum amount of furniture and other possessions, and who neatly put everything away out of sight when they're finished with it, but who never clean at all? So they would have ONLY squalor?
That's hard to imagine, it seems like the squalor part includes at least some "mess", if only throwing garbage onto the floor instead of into a garbage can.
I would have to say that at one time, I had squalor, hoarding, AND disorganization. I got the disorganization mostly under control first, a long time ago. I've been working on the hoarding for about 10 years now, and am down to my only "hoard" item being books--and they are way better than they used to be. I still have squalor, although I'm working on that too--oddly enough, the squalor habits are proving harder to break than the hoarding ones.
Diane
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Post by def6 on Nov 30, 2015 14:48:27 GMT -5
Alexandrea, I know those inspections are a pain but they do keep things from getting unsurmountable, which in the long run is what you want.
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Post by def6 on Nov 30, 2015 14:52:39 GMT -5
Hello Diane,
I think a lot of men keep it neat, yet Wow! have never scrubbed a toilet. I've never caught my DH with a toilet scrubber in hand.
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Post by dtesposito on Nov 30, 2015 15:47:05 GMT -5
I think a lot of men keep it neat, yet Wow! have never scrubbed a toiletHmm, I've known ONE man (well, one straight man) whose apartment was pretty neat, and he cleaned too. I think most of the other single, straight men whose apartments I've seen have not been neat. Or clean. Although, I guess that's too much of a generalization. Oh wait--one of them had a clean apartment, but employed a cleaning service--I guess that counts. Hmm, I think I'll stop random posting and do some cleaning now, I'm starting to feel guilty... Diane
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Post by Bethel on Nov 30, 2015 18:07:06 GMT -5
So...do you think there are people who have just an average or bare minimum amount of furniture and other possessions, and who neatly put everything away out of sight when they're finished with it, but who never clean at all? So they would have ONLY squalor? That's hard to imagine, it seems like the squalor part includes at least some "mess", if only throwing garbage onto the floor instead of into a garbage can. I would have to say that at one time, I had squalor, hoarding, AND disorganization. I got the disorganization mostly under control first, a long time ago. I've been working on the hoarding for about 10 years now, and am down to my only "hoard" item being books--and they are way better than they used to be. I still have squalor, although I'm working on that too--oddly enough, the squalor habits are proving harder to break than the hoarding ones. Diane Years ago I babysat for a family who appeared to have a sparkling house. I went to get something out of the closet though and HOLY COW! It was just a piled jumble. Shocked the heck out of me. I just took the kids outside to play after that. So yeah... some folks have a bit of squalor tucked away, and appear to be clean, non-squalorous people. Not sure what the incidence of that is. I'm VERY sure no one would admit to that sort of thing. I'm also sure that children who grow up like that are at high risk of creating squalor when they grow up and move out.
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Post by messyme on Dec 1, 2015 3:09:11 GMT -5
Def -- I've heard of the "leave no evidence" thing. I have gotten my house quite good on and off over the years and that thinking did help. I also would try to pretend that I'm a guest in the house. When I'm at other people's houses, of course, I am very careful about cleaning up after myself. When I do that in my own house though, I kind of feel resentful. Like, it's my house and I worked very hard all day/week and I need to relax a bit instead of worrying all the time about cleaning up. I know that I have to change my thinking into -- I WANT to clean up after myself because I WANT a clean house (vs. I HAVE to). It's not easy!
Alex -- Congrats on Level 0! That is no easy feat.
Dtesposito -- I say I'm not a hoarder, but I do have many books and do tend to keep papers (ex: old school notes, etc.) for longer than I should, or maybe longer than some people. However, at some point when I go through my papers, I do throw out tons of stuff after a certain amount of time. The main problem is that I have too much to actually go through regularly and have time to throw out. I guess it's hard to say what a "hoarder" is because I'm pretty sure over 99% of people "hoard" to some extent (keeping a few too many books that they could easily get at a library, having cluttered garages or basements, unorganized closets stuffed with things they haven't used in years, etc.).
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Post by def6 on Dec 1, 2015 13:50:11 GMT -5
Diane, I must apologize for what I wrote about "men in general"and my Dh. If I ever saw him "suiting up" with gloves to go scrub our toilets…I would probably say "Honey, I'll do that!" So, I might be the reason we are still living in the stone ages around here. Bethel, Same thing happened to me, but in my case I opened up a closed bedroom that was full to the rafters with the hoard, the rest of the house looked normal. Messyme , It sounds to me like the things that you have excesses of are things that accumulate in everyones life like mail and papers, things like that. Just regular stuff.
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Post by mouseanne on Dec 1, 2015 13:53:55 GMT -5
Hmm. I agree there are distinctions to those categories.
Clutter: stuff lays around a while before you put it away/deal with it. Make coffee, leave the filters & coffee container are on the counter, and you just use them from there for days/weeks. The mail is piled. This is on the squalor scale as level 1.
Dirty: Uncleaned. Dust, furball bunnies, sticky/yukky floor & counters. Also squalor level 1
Messy: a combination of cluttery & dirty
Hoard: You have every cottage cheese container that ever entered your house. Or, More clothes than will fit in your closet & bureaus. Can be clean/organized hoard, or cluttery/dirty hoard. (The cottage cheese containers are just a "for example", I don't have anything against using cottage cheese containers. If someone has a pile of 20 and re-uses them for containers, I totally get that.) Hoard can be a division of OCD, or living through the depression, and someone is unable to throw anything potentially useful away. Or is compelled to recycle every possible scrap.
Squalor level 2: includes any combination of the prior four categories, with time elapsed, and critical mass reached. Sheets unchanged for months. Goat trails (paths through rooms, with canyons. My old house hallway-canyon over my head (boxes), living room canyon walls about 4-5 foot high (boxes, stuff), bedroom 2-3 feet canyon walls (stuff). Some squalor homes have no trails, you are walking on the piles of stuff. (Warrior Kimmy's orig Julie Morganstern posts & pictures, my friend's house) This is squalor level 2-normal movement impeded.
Squalor level 3 add rotting food, pet waste. (The norm, not the exception) The cantelope sat there so long it melted. (yes, my kitchen)
level 4, human waste. Again, the norm, not the exception. This doesn't mean dirty diapers in the diaper pail. It means when the pail is not emptied for weeks, or piles of adult diapers, or buckets of human waste, or non working bathroom facilities, but you continue to use them.
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Post by mouseanne on Dec 2, 2015 18:02:29 GMT -5
Hey, I didn't mean to shut down the thread. I started out with my thoughts/ideas on the categories, then I thought I'd cross-check the actual squalor levels link to Squalor Survivor, then I had to edit my own ideas. I think the squalor degrees, 1, 2, 3, 4 are slightly misleading to our normal thought process. We think in terms of scales, 1 to 5 or 1 to 10...with the ends being best/worst. So a "normal-lived in house" is what? A zero? And house porn (purt-near unattainable perfection-altho I know some who do) is what? a negative 1? Is house porn the zero, and the lived-in house a "1/4" on the scale? I'm just saying, this is how our brains work. But really, house porn, and normal life, aren't even on the squalor scale. But, "normal lived in" can slide into 1st degree squalor, pretty easily, with several weeks in a row of "life" happening, overtime, a sick child, an unexpected surgery, broken foot/leg/ankle/knee, or other trauma(s).
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Post by mynicehome on Dec 4, 2015 14:30:13 GMT -5
What I was accustomed to though was that fact that my house was dirty, disorganized and cluttered. Instead of considering myself a squalorer or a hoarder I have often thought of my issues in this area as; dirty/cluttered house syndrome. I feel the same way as you do def6 about how to best describe my situation. I don't feel I qualify as a hoarder, and even though there are many cats and dogs in the house and there are occasional accidents, I don't think I fit into "squalor" either. But my house is just as you've described: dirty, disorganized and cluttered.
And even though it's clearing out considerably the "dirty" part is still obvious. Walls and windows for the most part. There are also areas in obvious need of repair.
I think I just may choose to consider myself lucky at this "stage", whatever it is, because it seems to me that noticeable levels of dirtiness, disorganization or clutter could be considered a tipping point that has a good chance to evolve into either hoarding or squalor states. I don't want that to be my future and I have to take the reins now to avoid any risk of that.
Where ever we're at, we're in good company here and amongst friends and supportive help.
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Post by def6 on Dec 4, 2015 15:08:17 GMT -5
Hello Mouseanne,
Isn't it strange how folks that aren't related and not even in close proximity can share similarities of thought processes. Just today I finished off a jar of jelly and thought …What can I make with this glass jar? Then I thought No! it's just clutter.. The jar is now waiting in the dishwasher to be washed and reused but if the right mood hits I'll go put it in my recycle bin.
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Post by def6 on Dec 4, 2015 15:11:37 GMT -5
Dear My Nice Home,
I like your point about dirt and clutter reaching the tipping point and becoming squalor and a hoard . May we keep chipping away daily to keep from it.
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Post by def6 on Dec 5, 2015 16:36:52 GMT -5
Thank you Out from... for your thoughtful reply and for sharing what you go through. Your post reminds me so much of the posts on the old squalor site and really paints a picture. Thank you this is the good stuff.
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