redcat
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Joined: April 2019
Posts: 10
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Post by redcat on Apr 28, 2019 13:17:41 GMT -5
Hi, I find this site while looking for information and support about loving and living with someone who hoards. I'm not sure if that's a "pc" term but it seems to fit the situation.
He can't seem to stop shopping. Getting rid of things causes great angst. Put those together and it's a situation i'm not sure I can keep living with. We're not married but have been living together for 10 years and have been a couple for 23. I love him to pieces but am afraid it won't get any better. He doesn't seem to recognize the need for help. I've told him how the situation affects me and it's like it doesn't matter, even though I know he cares.
While reading some threads yesterday I started thinking the only way this is going to end without more compromise is for me to leave. That makes me incredibly sad, for both of us.
I don't want to make an ultimatum but I do want to be able to talk to him, REALLY talk, and plead him to get help. I wish I could make him see that these behaviors are pushing me away.
Can anyone help talk me through this?
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Post by larataylor on Apr 28, 2019 13:52:22 GMT -5
redcat - I'm so sorry you're in this situation. I've struggled with this for 26 years, so I feel your pain. It does sound like a situation that will only get worse. From my experience, you will have to tell him that you *cannot* live in an ever-growing mess and follow through on that. If you actually leave, he might be motivated to face the problem and get help. I'm sorry if this sounds harsh! Your mileage may vary, of course. But I had to give up on verbal communication and take action before anything got better.
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Post by dtesposito on Apr 28, 2019 15:03:24 GMT -5
Hi redcat, the hoarder you live with has to consider it a problem and want to solve it, in order for things to get better. If you've read around the site, you see posts from people who DO consider their hoarding a problem, that's why they're here on the site, trying to find ways to change. People here have varying degrees of motivation and success over time, but all are here voluntarily because they would like to stop or lessen the hoarding behavior. So unless your SO decides he would like to live in a different way, you won't be able to change him.
The obvious thing is to make it clear how much the hoarding bothers you, and that you feel like you can't live in the situation anymore--it sounds like you've done that. Maybe your SO doesn't care, or maybe he doesn't think you're serious--if you have a history of saying this over the years and you stayed regardless, he probably doesn't think you're serious.
Do you own a home together? If so, you have an equal right to have the home the way you like it--or, you have the right to have half the home the way you like it to be--some people have actually portioned out the house and said--these rooms have to stay uncluttered, "your" rooms can look any way you want them to look. If you rent, you can approach it the same way, even though to me it feels stronger to be able to say that you own half the house and you're going to make a living space for yourself that you are happy with.
I wish I could sound more hopeful, but being a hoarder myself I know that I only started changing when I myself had had enough and really wanted to change. Even then it's very difficult, but possible. When a person is contented with the way they're living, there is no reason to do the hard work of changing.
Good luck, I hope you can work out enough of a compromise so that you can both be happy living in the same space.
Diane
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Post by papermoon on Apr 28, 2019 16:36:02 GMT -5
I know two different couples (within each, one partner is a hoarder and the other is not), who live in separate but adjacent homes. They are happy with this arrangement, and have lived like this for many years. In my own family, my mother and step-father had separate bedrooms and bathrooms. My mother strictly forbid him from using certain rooms, including the big living room unless they had company over. The rooms that were his to hoard were disgusting, but the doors stayed shut. When she died, he ruined the whole house, insects took over, and when he died, the house was sold at a loss. But while she lived, this arrangement worked and my mother's sanity was saved. They were together 45 years.
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Post by larataylor on Apr 28, 2019 18:54:47 GMT -5
Separate but adjacent homes sounds great if you can afford it! Separate areas never worked for me because of bugs, mice, devaluing of the home and abuse of the neighbors.
I could close a door if someone were just a bit messy.
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Post by joyinvirginia on Apr 28, 2019 19:43:34 GMT -5
I have a good friend who lived with her sister in one house, and her boyfriend lived in his own very organized and very cluttered home nearby. they were very happy living separately, until he died. If you can watch the most recent episode of Hoarders, entitled "Three Amigos" with Matt Paxton and Dr. Melva Green helping three friends who each have a hoarded home. there is a good and positive focus on one couple where the wife wants the hoard gone, or she will leave. www.aetv.com/shows/hoarders/season-10/episode-5
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redcat
New Member
Joined: April 2019
Posts: 10
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Post by redcat on Apr 28, 2019 20:34:13 GMT -5
I just wanted to say thank you so much to those who have responded so far!
The question was asked whether we own the home together. Technically, it's in his name, but I've been paying the mortgage since he was downsized some years ago. He works very hard, but his job doesn't bring much home. Hes responsible with many of his other bills, But there is no doubt that I'm covering all of our shared expenses. That's another reason why I am mystified at his buying behavior, although I will admit that he does not ever spend much on what he buys… usually it's random things like broken radios at a state sales that he will bring home and fix, but never sell. The idea of getting rid of stuff gives him serious anxiety (but the visual assault of all this STUFF gives me anxiety).
It's also worth mentioning that while a few rooms really cannot be used because they are so fall, all of our common spaces are relatively clean. Some areas are dusty and in need of a good vacuum and, but there are no insects or rodents. I don't feel as though I am in immediate danger, But we can't have people over and I have to walk carefully on the 'goat trails' in some areas.
After I posted here, I had the courage to approach him with another serious talk. It went well but I'm not sure if we're going to be able to meet in the middle. I did tell him about a few areas that were important for me to be cleared out. He wants to help make me more comfortable in our home, so time will tell. I'm giving myself a 3 to 6 month timeframe to see if things get better enough. The thought of leaving is scary but I may not have many other choices I could live with. We can't afford separate places but if I could have some sanctuary spaces within our home, that would be a good start.
Thank you again. I really appreciate getting some response when I reached out. When I 1st wrote I was feeling desperate. Now I am feeling at least a little less shame about the whole situation.
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Post by dtesposito on Apr 28, 2019 20:59:36 GMT -5
Redcat, that's great that you had another discussion. Please don't feel shame about anything, we're all human, and we all have our issues--you might not be a hoarder, but I'm sure you have something that you have to work on, right? The important thing is that we all try, and it sounds like he's willing to at least give it a go. Diane
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Post by larataylor on Apr 28, 2019 21:07:46 GMT -5
Maybe he's acquiring stuff thinking he's going to make money from it? That's a real trap for hoarder types.
One thing I know is that shaming, blaming, arguing, and complaining (on my part) was very hard on our relationship. But *good* communication seemed to get me nowhere either. Somehow I had to make it about my own boundaries, my own requirements for happiness, and not about him doing things wrong.
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Post by Unswamping on Apr 28, 2019 23:19:36 GMT -5
Welcome redcat. You are in a very difficult situation. Good job on having some communication with your so. What dtesposito said is true, while its possible to overcome hoarding, the hoarder needs to see that its a problem and decide he/she wants to change. As a hoarder working on recovery, its difficult work but the benefits outway the efforts (takes a while to see that though). I would make two suggestions for you, given your situation.
One is that the house needs to be safe. No goat trails in common areas. No blocked exits, windows or electrical outlets. Kitchen and bathrooms need to be uncluttered and useable. You should be able to prepare and eat meals, take care of bodily functions without dealing with clutter. You should be able to sleep in your bed. There should be no fire hazards (flammable/combustible materials stored in house, nothing near stove, heaters, any heat generating appliances). Working smoke alarms. This is a bare bones minimium and is not negotiable. If you want more information on this, let me know i can post some links. Think about if 911 or fire department had to come in, can they get in easily? (Accidents happen regardless of ones age or health). The two of you could test walking a dining room chair from front door to bedroom, bathroom, etc. You should be able to do this easily without knocking into anything. Again, that would be the minimum.
Second and this is just me. Im concerned that you say you cant afford a separate place, when you pay the mortgage and most of the shared bills. I know he doesnt make alot of money but i think you need to have a more equitable split. Can he pay $100 a month into the shared expense account? That would free up $100 you are currently paying and you could put that towards savings in case you do need to move out. It would mean he has less money to spend on hoarded items (i wouldnt tell him this).
The first step in overcoming hoarding, after recognizing its a problem, is cutting down on what comes in. Even if he got rid of stuff, if stuff is still coming in, it isnt going to make any difference. There are lots of different ways to work on it. For me, limiting the amount of cash and no cards i carry when i got to certain stores is a big help.
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redcat
New Member
Joined: April 2019
Posts: 10
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Post by redcat on Apr 29, 2019 6:31:33 GMT -5
Every response is so helpful! I wish I could return the help in some way. I'll try to add more detail so it's crystal clear. Kitchen and bathrooms are clean and clutter free. That's definitely non-negotiable! Other shared areas are navigable for the most part. I can get to the bathroom from the bedroom in the dark without tripping. Our rooms are anywhere between #3 and #6 in this link - #3 areas are shared areas, #6 areas are rooms I cannot use or access to clean thoroughly. www.cbsnews.com/pictures/whos-a-hoarder-simple-test-tells-messy-from-mentally-ill/Yesterday we worked on clearing the way through our three season room to the patio door because I want to be able to let in the fresh air, grill outside, etc. We talked about some short term goals, what can we accomplish in a month, in three months. I've never threatened to leave and then relented, but I don't think I've adequately expressed the extent to which this is a problem for me. He now understands that better. The money part definitely is problematic. We do ok on our income-and-a-half. I have a side job that pays well and have saved up that money for "just in case," so I do have a bailout fund if needed. Our financial arrangement is not ok for me in the long run, though, because on some level it feels like I'm subsidizing all this activity. I told him yesterday that I think he'd need to get rid of about half his stuff in order for me to be able to live there comfortably. He is more than willing to create specific spaces for me but doesn't see the problem in having endless collections as long as they're organized (they're not) and he's using them (he's not). I'm scared that he doesn't seem to recognize the need for help. He just wishes for a bigger house, more time to deal with the items at hand, and winning the lottery as a way out. I wish for my voice to matter in all this. I want him to choose us over the items that bring temporary pleasure. Yesterday was a good start to making my needs better known. We'll see where it goes from here.
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Post by larataylor on Apr 29, 2019 8:12:25 GMT -5
redcat - huge hugs from me. Our situations are very similar. In a way it gets harder when some spaces are clear and safe, and there's a "what, that's not enough for you?" attitude. Financial health is a thing, too! Being able to clean and maintain the entire house is a thing, too! Or being able to move, sell, get an appraisal, or rent out a room without having a huge clearing project between you and those actions. Also, your mental health is important. Constant frustration and visual assault can make you depressed. I had months where I sat on the couch, overwhelmed and hopeless. That didn't improve things in any way. I was considered unreasonable for wanting to clear out the basement. I was told I didn't *need* the basement and I should be fine with having it packed with their parents' moldy, dusty stuff, crawling with mice and bugs. It's one thing to have a collection of things, organized and used. But you need him to grasp the reality that it's NOT organized and used and that it creates an intolerable situation for you.
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Post by def6 on Apr 29, 2019 9:59:34 GMT -5
I'm sorry redcat that you have to go through this. Maybe you should seek help from a therapist about the emotional trauma you may be experiencing. Ultimately the decision to stay or leave is up to you. Some members here live with loved ones that hoard. I was faced with a dilemma just last night while cleaning food out of my kitchen cabinets. My DH said that I needed to check with him before I got rid of anything . My response hands down was to throw away anything that I did not feel comfortable keeping. The bottom line is the fact that I am in charge of cooking and I am simply not using the expired products. Alternately, I would not make decisions about tools, for instance, to keep or go. At any rate, You sound like a very compassionate person, I feel you pain....Sometimes this life is pure hell!
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Post by CourageouslyLion SeeksSerenity on Apr 29, 2019 10:13:46 GMT -5
I don't want to make an ultimatum but I do want to be able to talk to him, REALLY talk, and plead him to get help. I wish I could make him see that these behaviors are pushing me away. This book: "Digging Out" is about how to talk to loved ones about their clutter/hoarding. How to talk to them effectively without being offensive. How to prioritize reducing harmful situations first. etc. Full description with author name etc here: takeonestepatatime.proboards.com/thread/10013
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Post by joyinvirginia on Apr 29, 2019 10:18:19 GMT -5
With more info, you sound very like one of the couples in the "Three Amigos" episode of Hoarders. There was one couple where the wife defended her best areas in kitchen, bedroom, bathroom, living room. but she wanted the unsightly outdoor hoard gone! and the hoarded areas of the house cleared. watch it, I think it will be enlightening. Out of the 3 friends, one refused help, two did accept help, and the couple came to a better understanding.
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