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Post by survivorgurl on Apr 22, 2009 12:39:08 GMT -5
Thanx for finding that Molly. I sent her a message and would encourage anyone else who has myspace and feels brave to leave her one too.
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Post by tinasabrina on Apr 22, 2009 17:38:38 GMT -5
Oh, I feel so sorry for the mother. I'd put my arms around her if I could.  As I mentioned in my intro, I don't see how my daughter has made it to 14 without some kind of governing agency stepping in to take her. And yes, why do they only hold the woman responsible and not mention a thing about how they have an able-bodied father who could clean the place as well! So sexist, like women are the only ones who should be expected to clean.  I hope a volunteer organization steps in and helps this family. I wish I could help but I'm too far away. I hate how when police officers are involved they have to go trumpeting information to the media and whoever will listen. That is just wrong. The squalorer already feels degraded enough by having them see their home in the first place so why must they put video of the home on display. |
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Post by heather on Apr 22, 2009 19:42:31 GMT -5
I wish I had the $500 to pay her fine.
A couple of things, CL:
I got this sense of an "us vs them" in your research. Mother must be trying, mother must care, neighbors don't, reporters didn't try hard enough.
Come on, don't we want to BE 'them'? If not, there's definitely a psychological issue there to explore.
Also, do we all have this sliding scale? "It could have been very little -- one day's worth of feces. It could have been a lot -- one year's worth of feces." Implication: a little is understandable. I think most people ('them') would draw the line at "feces," period. The only reason any would be in your house is if your dog had a medical accident and you're in the process of getting a baggie for it, all the while swearing that you need to take your dog out more often so it doesn't happen again.
Higher standards. (I know I need em.)
Eh, I hope this is taken as it's meant... interesting insights into OUR brains....
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Post by moggyfan on Apr 22, 2009 20:17:06 GMT -5
"...her home...was found filled with trash, food, dirty dishes and with animal feces covering the second floor, according to an arrest citation." (From news reports)
This sounds like more than a single instance (or even a few instances) of the dogs using the family's home as their toilet.
After reading several stories, I have come to think it is probably a good thing for the children to have been removed temporarily to a cleaner and hopefully safer environment.
That said, I still believe that arresting her is not the best solution. I understand social services are expensive, but I doubt they are more expensive than the criminal justice system. I hope that she will somehow get the help she needs to get her life in order and that following that, she and her children can be reunited in better circumstances and kept safe from the children's father.
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Post by CourageouslyLion SeeksSerenity on Apr 22, 2009 23:02:35 GMT -5
- Lioness: Have you ever considered going into law? You would make a great lawyer!
Arid "...her home...was found filled with trash, food, dirty dishes and with animal feces covering the second floor, according to an arrest citation." (From news reports)
... but Moggyfan is the English teacher.
Moggyfan spotted something I didn't see.April 7 version of "The Courier-Journal": www.courier-journal.com/article/20090407/ZONE07/90407019/-1/ARCHIVESApril 8 version of "The Courier-Journal": www.courier-journal.com/article/20090408/NEWS01/904080401Notice difference between the two editions of the same newspaper. The April 8 edition added the word "with" in a strategic location in the sentence -- as Moggyfan pointed out. April 7 edition implies: - home in {address of mother}
- was found to be filled with trash, food, dirty dishes and animal feces
- covering the second floor
This April 7 edition implies that the combined mess was covering the second floor. April 8 edition implies: - home in {address of mother}
- was found filled with trash, food, dirty dishes
- and with animal feces covering the second floor
This April 8 edition implies that the home in general was filled with trash, food, and dirty dishes .... ... but the animal feces covered the second floor. I checked back and read the other articles and re-watched the videos. www.todaysthv.com/news/natInt/story.aspx?storyid=83039That says, in list format: - Garbage, dog feces, rotted food and clothes all over.
- A bathtub full of dishes and trash.
- No functioning beds or toilets.
- Police thought it seemed apparent that the humans weren't bathing.
- Police do not know how the humans used the bathroom.
- Police discovered a specific area that was littered with trash and soiled sheets. This specific area may or may not have been used as a sleeping area.
That report just says the combined mess was "all over". I listened to the video version of that report and the reporter narrated it that way, too. I was WRONG in my earlier report. I thought there was no mention of toilets.
But this report says there were no functioning toilets.www.whas11.com/news/local/stories/whas11-top-090406-childrenfilth.abbe410f.html?so=TimeStampAscending#slcgm_comments_anchorThis says, in list format: - home covered in trash, food, dirty dishes and animal feces covering the second floor.
- broken windows with exposed glass
- both bath tubs and sinks filled with trash
"both bath tubs and sinks filled with trash" could be interpreted in more than one way, as follows: Both types of plumbing devices were filled with trash -- 1) the bathtub
and
2) the sinks OR - Both bathtubs (implying that there were 2 bathtubs) were filled with trash
- .... and the sinks were filled with trash.
These are all minor differentiations in perception and description.
What really matters is that the place was very messy. - Whether there were one or two bathtubs, I don't know.
- If there was a mess on the second floor, I don't know.
- Amount, location, and age of poop from dogs, I don't know.
The policeman considered the place to be a mess. The children were aged 3, 4, and 6. Child Protective Services came.SOS member's Heather's comment on my research posted on page 7 of this thread:A couple of things, CL:
I got this sense of an "us vs them" in your research. Mother must be trying, mother must care, neighbors don't, reporters didn't try hard enough.
Come on, don't we want to BE 'them'? If not, there's definitely a psychological issue there to explore.
Also, do we all have this sliding scale? "It could have been very little -- one day's worth of feces. It could have been a lot -- one year's worth of feces." Implication: a little is understandable. I think most people ('them') would draw the line at "feces," period. The only reason any would be in your house is if your dog had a medical accident and you're in the process of getting a baggie for it, all the while swearing that you need to take your dog out more often so it doesn't happen again.
Higher standards. (I know I need em.)
Eh, I hope this is taken as it's meant... interesting insights into OUR brains.... Heather, you've made some very good points. Although I tried to be objective and just give the facts, I did give my own slant to my research report. And what was my "slant"? My slant was shown in that I spoke as from my own way of thinking -- and my own way of thinking is that of the mind of a squalorer. Sigh. The most frustrating thing about this whole story is that the news reporters say that the police said that the police records show that CPS took the children once before under similar circumstances. She cleaned up before but was unable to maintain. I've cleaned up before and maintained for a while, but fell back into squalor. - I see the mother in the news article as being myself.
- Even though my pets are potty-trained.
- Even though I have no children.
- I see the mother in the news story as being myself.
Sigh. Eh, I hope this is taken as it's meant... interesting insights into OUR brains.... Yes, interesting. I agree. This whole thread has given me interesting insights into my brain. ----- |
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Post by gettingsomewhere on Apr 22, 2009 23:05:27 GMT -5
me too cl,
hugs to us all
x.
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Post by breakingfree on Apr 23, 2009 9:14:13 GMT -5
It could have been my parents (although our home didn't have the feces because our cats were outdoor cats) and it could have been me. I understand both sides--what the children went through and what the squalorer goes through.
Yes, this hits home for a variety of reasons for many of us. I do, however, get the distinct impression that the prevelent feeling here is that if one disagrees that she should have been punished or the children taken away that it is somehow a slam against this website and members here. Who cares whether it was one floor that had feces or the whole house? Does it really matter?? No matter the location I'm sure it stunk. Squalor is squalor. Feces is feces. Is there really an "acceptable" amount???
I thought that this site exists so that people can overcome squalor. It is not Staying In Squalor, it is Stepping OUT of Squalor. It is not, "There is nothing wrong with living in squalor--we are still good people it's just that people don't understand us," it is "We are good people who ARE WORTHY AND DESERVE BETTER THAN SQUALOR AND WANT TO BREAK FREE OF IT!"
I believe most of us agree that arrest is not the answer, yet how much did this woman want help? According to reports, this is not the first time she has been cited. At what point do you say, "OK, enough is enough?" I know that when my parents were offered help with their squalor they became very defensive, as did I when the help was offered to me. Part of it was shame. Part of it was because "who are they to tell me how to live?" Well, the problem is, it wasn't just my parents. It wasn't just me. If a person wants to live by him/herself in squalor and feces and it doesn't affect someone else who either lives there or has an adjoining unit and if rescue people can reach you without injuring themselves in the event of an emergency then ok. Live and Let Live. But no man is an island. What we do, no matter how miniscule, affects others. I realize how my squalor affected my children. I see how much happier my son is now that we are no longer in squalor. I see how much happier I am that my daughter brings my grandson over and he can crawl and play. I am free of the worry that my son will be taken away. He deserves better.
I realize that there are many who will probably be angry with my post. They will think that because I am in maintenance that I somehow think I am better than others. No, that is NOT the case. I want to show people that they CAN overcome. Yes, we should be compassionate. However, we should also realize that sometimes there are people who do not want help, will do nothing to attempt to improve their situations, and those are the facts. They have abusive/bad men/partners in their lives. They do drugs. They drink. They have children they cannot support. They do not seek help. I am not saying that all of these things are true about this woman. Some of them are. Some may or may not be.
If the woman in the story wants help, I hope she receives it. I also hope that the children receive the care they need and deserve. They (and all of us here) deserve to live better than animals.
BF
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Post by houseworkhater on Apr 23, 2009 12:15:55 GMT -5
BF, you articulated my feelings on so many levels. Every time I post something like you did, there is inevitably a follow-up post about how such posts can be discouraging to potential and existing members. That is not my intent. But I think we can agree that those of us who struggle with squalor and were raised in squalor have a different perspective than "first generation" squalorers. And yes, we have to be compassionate to all (and I think we are), but that doesn't mean we have to say squalor is okay. If it were, we would all be off doing other things.
I cannot say I have overcome, but I try really hard, every day, to break the cycle. That is all we can ask of this woman, ourselves, or anyone struggling with this issue.
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Post by houseworkhater on Apr 23, 2009 12:16:51 GMT -5
And CL, thank you so much for your analysis. It really was a great read!
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Post by AnnieOkie on Apr 23, 2009 12:55:20 GMT -5
Not meaning to wander off-topic, but the "mindset" thing has me thinking. I desqualored my living room 11/08: takeonestepatatime.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=pics&action=display&thread=2834Since I have desqualored and fairly maintained my living room, there are still two things that need to be done. My bookcase sits as it did in the "before" photos. I never did go back and declutter it and dust it. Also, my carpet is stained in several places, and I have never gone back and cleaned that. My mindset is such that....I was so proud and excited about my clean living room, that I thought if anyone saw it (and they have), I could just think, "Even though the carpet is stained and the bookcase dusty, they should have seen it before!" It was good enough (this term has been discussed in other threads). But I realize to truly have my living room completely desqualored, I need to get that bookcase taken care of AND try to get those stains out of the carpet. Lots of thought-provoking stuff here. |
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Post by someday on Apr 29, 2009 19:49:37 GMT -5
I actually live about 20 min from this woman. It's NOT a good neighborhood. I wish I could help.
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Post by survivorgurl on May 10, 2009 17:02:20 GMT -5
Mindy Hollon has made contact with me through myspace and will hopefully come here to read all this. She needs to know she has alot of support.
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Post by gettingsomewhere on May 10, 2009 20:11:31 GMT -5
this is great news gurl! lets hope she comes for a look, and sees that she is not alone. there is hope.
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