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Post by paperpiler on Jul 26, 2008 13:32:31 GMT -5
Carrying on with the financial squalor theme here, with my specific situation. Any input would be greatly appreciated.
My dire situation was handed to me by my wealthy ex and a judge who dumped tons of ex's debt on a then-homemaker!, and several situations involving temp jobs with no income in between them, despite my very best efforts. And I mean VERY best. Though I went back to school and completed my degree after my divorce, life has been very, very financially hard for me--a constant struggle, even though I get jobs in my field. When I'm out of work for x time between jobs, financial repercussions result. I'm constantly two steps behind, not one step ahead.
As a result, I am currently penniless, but I did finally get a decent paying temp job that starts this week. THIS time, I have been out of work for four months with no income stream, literally living on the kindness of friends and acquaintances handing me a 10 or 20, and going to food pantries, which don't give enough to one person to last a month (though I'm grateful for what I receive). I get no unemployment or food stamps (long story, and not a "bad" one, just long). I have lived on a total of about $100 for four months now, and am down to 0. Of course, I still have the financial repercussions I'm dealing with from the last go-round of nothing in between jobs. I never have enough to set aside anything, because I'm always catching up. Many of these jobs are temp jobs--not at ALL what I want--but it's a case of "take something" over "have nothing." No benefits, no nothing. Just surviving and hoping the permanent job will finally get here. Except for a job in January that then had a restructuring after two months, I have not had a permanent job in three years. My only saving grace is that I know that I earn fairly good money, but being out of work gets me sooooooo behind all the time. And this economy? Two recruiters told me that for every one job opening, there are 200-300 applications received right now. UGH.
My problems:
1. I will have an income, but have to get caught up on rent first (behind June, July and now Aug). Am facing eviction, with nowhere to turn, so this is crucial, and I can probably get caught up within 1-2 months on this substantial arrearage. They will more than likely accept a payment arrangement now that I HAVE a job. They refused any money previously w/o a job to show them how I was going to be able to make an arrangement on the arrearage. And if I can get a permanent job (I'm still in the running for one), the city will help me by paying one month's rent because of having been unemployed and in crisis. Temp job? I'm stuck with all the arrearage.
2. Because rent comes first, I have been unable to pay my creditors (about 7 creditors) since about Oct. of last year. At that time, I was unemployed, finding nothing, had 0 to my name...but had pre-approved cards because when I sold my house, moved here to have more opportunities, and had the proceeds from the sale to live on while job hunting, my FICO score leaped from about a 530 to nearly a 700. (Now my score, if I had to guess, is probably a 350...seriously). When I moved here, before all this happened again, I was down to only $3,000 left to pay off on the marital debt I was stuck with.
But then I had no work for 13 months. I had 2 credit cards from long ago. I opened 5 more in order to SOLELY pay rent/utilities/buy groceries. Nothing else. It was my only way to not be on the streets, and I had nowhere to turn for help. Now I don't even have more cards to open (kinda crying and chuckling here at the same time). My offers have dried up. Can't figure out why. :-) :-(
You do what you have to do to survive. It's that simple, and also that scarily hard. Because you know what you're doing. But you have to eat and have a roof over your head, and the lights on. And you keep hunting for good work with benefits.
My situation: I opened these cards about three quarters of the way through last year. Except for maybe 1 or 2 minimum payments on these cards, I have paid not one cent. I continued to pay on the two cards I'd had open for years UNTIL I ran out of money and couldn't pay on them either.
I have had 7 creditors calling...9 calls per day (max allowed under the law per creditor w/o it being harassment). Some have now stopped calling. Either the debt's been charged off, or it's now gone to collections, and collections are calling (some nice, one NASTY), or it's going further...who knows.
I have $0. You can't make payment arrangements with $0. And I can't make payment arrangements until I catch up on the rent, because I will pretty much have 0 left after the paychecks in the next month or two to get all this rent caught up first and foremost.
Given all this, what would you do with the creditors? I did pick up the phone and talk to one or two. Told them I would get back to them when I had an income. Obviously, that wasn't what they wanted to hear (and then they offered offers in settlement....ok, I have 0...are you offering 0 for settlement?) And the calls keep coming. But now it's getting "quieter" and I'm worried what will happen next.
I spoke to Consumer Credit Counseling. They told me, "Nothing you can do till you have an income again. Let's face it...they want to hear that you're sending them ANY money." (which I can't). "So don't answer until you can. " I'm worried one will file suit against me and then a judge will say, "You didn't CARE about paying them. You were just trying to avoid them"....when that's not the truth in the LEAST. I paid almost all of my ex's debt; it wasn't even MY personal debt. I honor my commitments if at all humanly possible.
Advice, please? Sorry this was so long and hopefully not too confusing.
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Post by SueDonym on Jul 26, 2008 13:48:46 GMT -5
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Post by Chris on Jul 26, 2008 13:56:23 GMT -5
Well, clearly you have to worry only about rent, food and transportation (to your job) for the time being..........something Dave Ramsey calls "the four walls". Unsecured debt is not something you should pay on until you are providing yourself with food, shelter, transportation and your basic needs. He advocates catching up first, then saving yourself a small emergency fund, then paying back creditors a prorated share of what is left after you eat and pay rent and get yourself the necessities - medication etc.
There is a book that helped me I checked out from the libary called "How to settle your debts" by Norman H. Perlmutter. I also got a lot of help from Dave Ramsey's website -- you can search it for all the free information regarding finances and it is very helpful.
I am so sorry you are going thru this struggle for survival. It has to be very stressful. Congratulations on getting the job and my main advice would be to concentrate 100% on your roof and meals for the time being. Companies may be able to get a judgement (and they may not) but they can't collect when you have nothing to pay and your circumstances when the temp job starts and your pay starts rolling in are that you must catch up on your rent first.
I will keep you in my most positive thoughts that you will get the clarity and help you need to see this thru. Like I said -- please put your own shelter and food first and forget about debts until you are able. Even buying stamps and sending certified letters to your creditors is probably too expensive right now so just wait - the time will come when you can handle it in the mean time you might want to unplug the phone.
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Post by rexroth on Jul 26, 2008 14:06:14 GMT -5
I was a debt counsellor in England so don't know the law where you are but:
" I'm worried one will file suit against me and then a judge will say, "You didn't CARE about paying them. You were just trying to avoid them"
This is easy, write to them with information and keep proper accounts so you can prove your financial position.
Look at Debtors Anonymous
All the best with it
Rexroth
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Post by paperpiler on Jul 26, 2008 14:49:57 GMT -5
Thanks to all who've responded with clarity. I know a lot about credit, but it's different when it's your own situation, kwim? Kind of murky waters then.
Question: When a collection agency calls, do they not have to identify themselves as to which debt (i.e., which creditor) they're calling on behalf of or as the third-party agency of? I've been trying to find the law in the Act that states this. In other words, they can't just say that they're calling from Xyz and Associates about an important matter...or can they?
By the way, one did something stupid. :-) Called my ex (we haven't been married for yrs and yrs now), and said he was representing me in a legal matter. Oopsie....ex is a lawyer and found that interesting!...and what that one just did merits a formal complaint because it was unlawful. They can't present themselves as attorneys when they're not (and certainly not representing ME).
That one's the nasty agency. Dumb move on his part.
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Post by SueDonym on Jul 26, 2008 14:59:09 GMT -5
Thanks to all who've responded with clarity. I know a lot about credit, but it's different when it's your own situation, kwim? Kind of murky waters then. Question: When a collection agency calls, do they not have to identify themselves as to which debt (i.e., which creditor) they're calling on behalf of or as the third-party agency of? I've been trying to find the law in the Act that states this. In other words, they can't just say that they're calling from Xyz and Associates about an important matter...or can they? By the way, one did something stupid. :-) Called my ex (we haven't been married for yrs and yrs now), and said he was representing me in a legal matter. Oopsie....ex is a lawyer and found that interesting!...and what that one just did merits a formal complaint because it was unlawful. They can't present themselves as attorneys when they're not (and certainly not representing ME). That one's the nasty agency. Dumb move on his part. Misrepresenting themselves like that is actually illegal, and you could sue them for $1000 per violation. There are folks at CIC who have used the law to collect thousands of dollars and many others who have just used the threat of a lawsuit to strongarm the collectors into settling or dismissing claims. |
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Post by paperpiler on Jul 26, 2008 15:00:01 GMT -5
I wish I could unplug the phone. My cell is my only phone, and if I put it on silent, I may miss a job interview call. So instead, I hear the first ring, and THEN put the call on silent for the few rings till it stops. If it were only one creditor, life would be more peaceful. :-)
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Post by CourageouslyLion SeeksSerenity on Jul 26, 2008 15:20:29 GMT -5
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Paperpiler.
There is a law in the USA that if you write the creditors and tell them in writing that you don't want phone calls, they MUST STOP phoning you. Really.
You just have to be willing to open your mail. (I realize that opening one's mail is terribly hard for us squalorers who cannot even find our mail).
Legally you write and POLITELY but FIRMLY tell them to please communicate via postal mail only. There is exact wording for this type of letter, I don't remember it but you can find it online.
It's really hard to feel self-confident about jobhunting when you are being harrassed on the telephone. Believe me, I know.
You can even write and say "I promise to pay you $1.00 every month". If you follow through on that promise, they usually cooperate. But don't discuss it on the phone, because they'll laugh at you or threaten you if you suggest it on the phone.
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Post by paperpiler on Jul 26, 2008 16:22:20 GMT -5
I know this. I uh...work in law.
The reasons I haven't are twofold:
1. I live in an apartment building, and don't want my mailman (an acquaintance) to know things are as bad as they are. With so many creditors, I'd be getting written material from many sources very, very often. At least with phone calls, I"m the only one that hears them (except for the ex one time).
2. I have been told by a few in my field that if I write and state that I only want written communicaton and that they are no longer permitted to contact me by phone, they're much more likely to pursue legal avenues (i.e., judgment) because they've been "shut down" trying to make a profit as collectors.
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Post by shabbychic on Jul 26, 2008 16:30:18 GMT -5
My story is similar to yours. I wasn’t saddled with marital debt, but with 3 preschool kids and two years of college and obsolete job skills (I could type 50 wpm on a manual typewriter and build printed circuit boards). I had been self supporting prior to the marriage, but couldn’t make enough to pay for child care for three. So I went back to college and finished my degree. I got a small amount of child support, but it wasn’t enough. I got a Pell grant and a student loan. My first debt ever. After graduating, I bought a house with a nonqualifying assumable loan. What kind of real estate agent sells a house to someone who is unemployed? I owned it for long enough to get preapproved credit cards and loan offers, and I used them for necessities when I didn’t have money. After a year of unemployment and underemployment, I went back for my masters. I have debated whether that was wise, but it was a desperation move – I was broke, had no job, behind on the mortgage, and by registering for classes I could get a student loan that would catch everything up. Ultimately it led to the good job I have now, but also a huge student loan debt. I took longer than expected to get the degree and to get a job. When I couldn’t get any more loans, I survived on generosity and those credit cards and high interest loans. This was before our state had Medicaid, and medical bills piled up also – just routine piddling stuff but it added up.
Creditors got nasty sometimes but there wasn’t anything they could do because I didn’t have anything to give them. I remember one wrote me threatening to seize assets. I wrote back and told them come and get ‘em, my assets wouldn’t make a good yard sale. I did pay a few things off, $5 or $10 at a time, when I could.
My real problems with creditors began when I got a real job. After taking care of the “four walls,” I started paying off creditors a little at a time. Unfortunately there were too many of them – I had a few big debts and a whole lot of little ones. One loan company garnished my check for 1/3 of it. That barely left me enough to live on. There was a backlog of things the kids and I hadn’t been able to afford – extravagances like dental care, beds, adequate clothing. It burned me to be paying 1/3 of my check to them when my kids were still sleeping on the sofa and I couldn’t take them to the dentist. I reached a slow-pay arrangement with them, but it squeezed me. It didn’t leave enough to pay other creditors, who were threatening to sue and garnish also. One or two actually had gotten judgments against me; there just hadn’t been anything to take before. Even though my intention was to pay all my debts, I had to file bankruptcy just to get some control of my finances. I wanted to pay *all* my debts, not just the ones that were big enough to sue over. I had some debts that were just verbal agreements. It wasn’t fair to make them wait while I paid off Sleaze-O Loan Co. When I filed bankruptcy, my (former) doctor’s office was perfectly horrid to me in so many ways I won’t even go into it, even though they were one of the creditors I had started paying first. And I only owed them around $250. Some people took my filing as a personal affront and got angry with me about it, or tried to shame me. Jerks. I have paid off some of the debts that were bankrupted, including that doctor’s office. Still working on it – it will go faster when the kids finish college in a few years.
I’m just writing this long story to warn you - when you have an income all the sharks will come jumping out of the water trying to get theirs first. Be prepared and have a plan.
Shabby Chic
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Post by paperpiler on Jul 26, 2008 16:46:14 GMT -5
That just made me sick. :-(
I've been in this spot, fighting for my life and coming out alive, since my divorce started years ago.
All of my debt is unsecured. A few of the cards are as little as 400-600, where I might be able to make an offer in settlement as soon as rent is caught up. I think 3 of the cards are 4,000 or so. So total debt (exclusive of my consolidated student loans, which are on hold and they have been very nice about over the yrs as long as I contact them) is about 14,000. It's not huuuuuuuuge in the scheme of things. It's just spread out over several creditors.
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Post by paperpiler on Jul 26, 2008 16:48:51 GMT -5
Another question....
So because I don't know how long this temp job will actually last (except that I DO know it's short term, as in 1-3 months, and I'm the interviewer told me they'd make a decision on the hire for this other permanent position elsewhere next week), what IS my plan...if I have to pay the rent arrearage immediately upon getting checks coming in?
This sucks.
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Post by Chris on Jul 26, 2008 17:44:31 GMT -5
I have gotten a lot of help from this site -- it is a board of Dave Ramsey's philosophies and some very knowledgeable people can and do answer questions like you have -- if you register and then scroll down to "The Creditors are Calling" and post your questions -- people will help. Be sure and use a private sort of user name -- they will ask how much your rent is and things like that and how much the projected earnings of your job will be -- to get an idea of how to advise. It has helped me a lot. There are sections of budeting, catching up, and the baby steps which starts with saving an emergency fund so you won't have to use credit cards at all. livinglikenooneelse.com/Also, if I were you I would be researching bankruptcy and perhaps consulting an attorney who specializes in bankruptcy like right now as a way to consider that -- as an option. Some of them will give a free consultation and I think you could benefit greatly from learning more about it -- at least reseach it online -- with that much unsecured debt it is one of the options you have. [edited to add - please don't take this as a criticism because my DH and I have an even higher amount of unsecured debt unfortunately] Better to deal with it now before a lot of judgments are obtained or garnishments are placed on your income. This is just my opinion -- please know that I'm no expert. I only know that for me, researching the options made me feel more confident and helped bring my stress down. We're still figuring out what to do and so far are keeping just above water. Good luck. |
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Post by paperpiler on Jul 26, 2008 18:25:30 GMT -5
I used to prepare the schedules for bankruptcies for a living. There are some mitigating factors here...and since the reform took place in 2005, I don't want to consider that one as an option. There are a lot of other options to attempt first, I think. It all was at a standstill until now because of no job.
Thank you for the other information. Thanks to ALL of you!
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Post by Chris on Jul 26, 2008 19:57:51 GMT -5
Yes the more I read the more I realize that bankruptcy is not for everyone. I have a lot to learn for sure.
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