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Post by serena on Feb 3, 2011 7:13:02 GMT -5
CLSS, thank you for posting this. The list fits. Squalor Thinking. Yep.
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minky
New Member
Joined: December 2009
Posts: 97
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Post by minky on Feb 25, 2011 6:33:53 GMT -5
Although the original post is quite old, I've never read it until now. I don't know if I particularly agree with it though.
Yes, we shouldn't regard squalor as normal and acceptable. We shouldn't encourage it either. But I don't think it is okay for a person to be disgusted or horrified by it when they are sitting in their own mess. It is like the saying, people who live in glass houses should not throw stones.
I remember once on the forum (a long time back), a person openly admitted that they enjoyed looking at photos of squalor because then they could say "At least my home didn't get that bad." They also expected other people to admit that they had the same thoughts and feelings when looking through other people's photos.
I don't want to sound like I am a saint who does no wrong, but I have honestly never once been horrified by other people's descriptions or photos of their squalor. It doesn't matter if their degree of squalor is way different than mine because I know deep down in my heart that I could easily slip into the same position. Under the right circumstances, all of us could.
I think you would be hard pressed to find any person who willingly and happily lives in squalor. They may put up that defensive front and try to protect their dignity, but under the surface it is simply an act.
It is embarrassing to admit that you let things get away from you. It is such a vicious circle of shame, guilt, depression, etc.
What comes so easy to most "normal" people is a huge struggle for us. That is why digging out of squalor is not as easy as 'cleaning up the mess'. It is the same with an alcoholic. The first step is to put down the drink, but that is simply the first step. You are just beginning your recovery.
I don't understand how someone could be disgusted or horrified by a very real and serious problem. I would certainly not be disgusted if any person made that difficult first step to better their life no matter what their vice was. It could be alcohol, drugs, cigarettes, weight, squalor, etc. If you look at the big picture, the steps to recovery are almost the same for all addictions.
If someone decides to come out of the woodwork and join us here, it makes me very happy and it actually encourages me. Another person joining our ranks makes me feel stronger. I don't see living squalor free as unattainable anymore.
If someone posts before photos of their house and they come back a little bit later and I see the after photos, I don't sit there and judge. All I can think is "Wow! Look what they did! I can do that at my house too!"
I hate the thought that someone should feel ashamed of their situation if they are on this site. You have absolutely no reason to feel ashamed even if you haven't picked up one piece of paper. I think just coming here and reading is a first step. You already planted that seed in your mind that you would like to change your situation. There is no shame or disgust in that.
The bottom line for me is that I think anyone who lives in some sort of degree of squalor has no right to be shocked by another person's squalor. Whether is it is first degree or fourth degree, we all got there the same way. Essentially we all have the same problems, just to varying degrees. Like I said before, any single one of us could easily slip even deeper depending on the circumstances. That is why we are here.
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dusty
New Member
Joined: January 2009
Posts: 13
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Post by dusty on Mar 16, 2011 23:58:32 GMT -5
I find parts of this very true.
I am disgusted by other people's squalor (although not by them as people - I've never talked to anyone else with my problem but I'd be impressed that they actually let people see it, and relieved to find someone I could actually talk about it with - the strain of hiding your squalor is big and tiring as we all know) but the actual squalor itself, when I didn't make it, makes me feel ill.
But I don't feel the same about my own squalor when I'm living in the middle of it. I don't notice it. I become desensitised. And this is actually one of the key causes of my problem. I need to learn to see it as disgusting - but without seeing myself as disgusting. That's how I see other people in squalor, (the squalor is bad, they aren't) but I see myself in opposite terms - I am disgusted at myself but I shut out the mess to shut out the self-disgust - just retreat into my head and live around it.
Edited to add formatting poster wanted.
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Post by cozza on May 2, 2011 9:06:44 GMT -5
thanks so much for this post, i can relate to so much of it, and although i am new, just want to move forward.
my worst thing is cleaning for days so everything is brilliant and then.....doing nothing cause it all looks great, at least for a while i forget that i need to work at it every day.
growing up my mum only cleaning if someone was coming, hence we as kids often said " whose coming" even if she just tidied the lounge room! you will see that my motivation for this week and the reason i even found this site is that i have family visiting for the first time in 2 yrs for a party at my place mmmmm
the thing is if my house is too clean/tidy i feel uncomfortable cause its not the norm its like sitting in your best clothes and trying not to get dirty if you can understand that.....but i'm working on it i would like to be comfortable in a clean house
the other thing going round in my head is that i can't get my life in order till my house is in order, so daunting, anyway glad to be sharing and doing at the same time, thanks to all
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Post by joan44654bethesda on Aug 28, 2011 14:49:12 GMT -5
Thanks for all the postings, i too have battled depression and am overwhelmed by how i let my place become. i usually keep the living room and dining room clear, that's where the few people i let in my house come into. I love pets, had a dog for ten years, he's been gone for approx five years. only reason i don't have another dog is my yard is not fenced. Makes me wonder about getting another pet until i'm really doing better. have one child and I want to make things better for myself and my child. List making has helped me, it feels good to cross off an item, a chore done, etc. need to read these threads more often, they give me a lift to pick up some clutter and make small baby steps. Thanks so much. God bless.
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Post by Messy Missy on Aug 23, 2012 23:00:02 GMT -5
Hey.. I just came across the section of the boards. As i was reading your post [tr][/tr][td][/td] ![]() [/img] |
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Post by CourageouslyLion SeeksSerenity on Jun 3, 2015 9:47:39 GMT -5
This thread was begun 8 years ago. I'm taking a moment to reflect on this again, thus bumping the thread to the forefront for new discussions to be added.
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Post by larataylor on Jun 3, 2015 10:28:08 GMT -5
I hate squalor. I love the people who live in it. I want to help them get out, or help them see how to help themselves. To me, this forum is all about us helping each other to live happier, non-squalorous lives. It's all about love. But accepting squalor is not part of that love.  And yes, NOT being shocked by it is part of the problem. |
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Post by danny15 on Jun 3, 2015 10:34:59 GMT -5
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Post by hungaryhippo on Jun 3, 2015 18:21:09 GMT -5
When I first decided to do something about my hoarding/squalor issues and joined this site, I would watch those hoarding shows on TV and not be particularly shocked by anything that was shown and I admit I did get a certain satisfaction (for want of a better word) in knowing that my squalor wasn't as bad as the people on TV. As I started gradually working through my mess, I found myself becoming more and more shocked by the conditions that some people are living in. Now, even clutter in "normal" homes makes me agitated and uncomfortable. For instance I watched a show last week about people who'd built houses without planning permission and were facing the threat of having them torn down - one house had a massive kitchen which was perfectly clean and presentable but it was just filled with "stuff" - every surface had knick-knacks on them and there were umpteen hanging racks with pots and pans. It made me squirm.
And yet... my bedroom is almost a level 2 on the squalor scale and I can quite happily sit amongst dusty piles of books, DVDs, games and boxes packed ready for my move without feeling the slightest bit uncomfortable. That disconnect is still there. And I'm struggling to make further progress as the room seems jammed up now. I can't really move any of the packed boxes out of my room because the rest of the house is filled with my house-mate's hoard and there's just no space. If I could just organize my room better, I could stack up all the boxes in a corner but there's no room to clear a corner! It's like a Catch 22 - can't get the room organized because the boxes are in the way, can't get the boxes out of the way because I can't get the room organized.
I don't think it's always the case that having more space would simply mean you'd fill that space up with more crap. I was at my most squalid when I lived in a tiny place. When I had a 3 bedroom house, the downstairs was always "normal" and only the smallest bedroom was hoarded out. I've only got a problem now because all my stuff has to fit into one (admittedly large) room. I'm hoping to move to a house with at least 4 bedrooms (I LOVE space) and believe that I'll be able to not hoard and not be dirty once I have the freedom of my own large space. I notice that a lot of people here seem to live in abnormally small apartments or only have 1 room for themselves - I'm sorry but that's just not enough space for a grown adult in my opinion. I think if these people had more living space, things would get a lot easier for them - we're all here because we've acknowledged that we've got a problem and are working on those problems and while some of us might not be at the point of non-acquiring yet, many of us are able to just say "No" and aren't actively bringing in more clutter. I think extra space would be beneficial for a lot of those who live in particularly small abodes and are actively decluttering.
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Post by mynicehome on Jun 5, 2015 10:18:55 GMT -5
Hello CourageouslyLion SeeksSerenity! Thank you for bumping this thread. I remember reading it as a lurker and it is a valuable sounding board for our own feelings about squalor. Of course, these feelings are all over the board as well, but it's nice to have a group of them in one place.
I think one of the most destructive aspects of living in squalor, or in any degree of mess or filth that one is intensely uncomfortable with are the shackles that chain our hearts, body, mind and soul to the mess. How much of our time and valuable life we sacrifice to it. How it comes to loom without respite at the forefront of our minds and emotions. How all the truly poisonous feelings of shame, humiliation, resentment, envy, and others course daily and steadily through our systems. Judging harshly is like forcefeeding another spoonful of the bitter poison into the system.
I read most of the old SS board as well and there was one thread that still hasn't left my thoughts. I went back into SS and found the link: www.squalorsurvivors.com/squalor/plans-on-hold.shtml
It's called "Plans on Hold". It's heartbreaking in it's simple desire for freedom from the shackles.
I, you, all of us, have so much more to offer ourselves, our families, communities, our planets. We all need to break the shackles, somehow. Somehow, somehow... |
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Post by Emma on Jun 28, 2015 10:54:19 GMT -5
Lion/CLSS, thank you very much for this.
(ETA: deleted some, for privacy)
...
I am here learning new abstinence and skills for life.
Thank you, SooS. Thank you.
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