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Post by Di on Jun 30, 2012 14:48:38 GMT -5
I have a very well off cousin whose hobby is dumpster diving... he also has time to spend on stuff and a green thumb. He landscaped his lawn with "found" plants...to the point where it wins awards. He loves vintage toys and has refinished many old riding toys for the kids in the family. And he has brought much happiness to many people with his rescued items. Truly we don't know where our stuff ends up and who gets joy from it.
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Post by hiding on Jun 30, 2012 16:59:37 GMT -5
Thank you all for your perceptive and honest insights, the helpful quotes, and the motivational links. I think I need to read all of this thread plus selected posts on the other amnesty threads every day to help me to continue to move forward.
Owl, good to "see" another recovering person. You're so right. Freedom from drinking doesn't mean that we have a handle on hoarding/clutter. I have been sober a long time but I rarely tell anyone. First of all, I am reclusive, as my screen name suggests. Secondly, I should be a more organized, better person for as long as I have been sober. Thirdly, I am careful about breaking my or anyone else's anonymity, although that isn't much of an issue on this forum.
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Post by puppybox on Jun 30, 2012 17:18:50 GMT -5
the arguing with yourself until you reach a reasonable decision is the process by which you escape the hoarding.
I still have messie issues. lots. well ok hoarding to. but the thought process you were describing - seeing it thru to the end even if it takes a week or you have to put it away and come back to it in 6 months is how I get rid of things.
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Post by misssue on Jun 30, 2012 17:36:46 GMT -5
I posted this on the archive thread, so I will post it here, still learning to navigate..
I think for me, the ability to toss things in the trash, and I have an amnesty of sorts is the key for a lot of getting rid of things. I have never had an issue with tossing out a jar with food, or an outdated can of something, other than the " why did I have to waste that, I buy too much" The idea of putting a tv or clothing etc in the trash, not that hard to do either for me. Someone wrote " I am not the Mother Theresa of Objects" I like that. I have to work on the.. I might need this some day. I also think in my mid fifties that what the heck will I do if I did want to downsize or something happened, that motivates me lately.
I know what a therapist would say, you can't see the forest for the trees, because many of us hyperfocus on an item and can not decide to toss, keep or donate. It is about the decision, and for some, focusing on one item, lets us not have to look at the big picture, because it is overwhelming to think of the sheer volume of the amount of decisions and things we have to get rid of, to live better. If throwing it out helps accomplish your goals, it is ok. You get to make that choice. One thing I learned in life and more since I divorced, I get to do what I want and with things, more so.
I never got the recycle connection to hoarding until I worked with someone, who became a friend. We worked with products and had napkins, cardboard, cans, food, plastic spoons by the thousands for events. IF I threw one package in the regular trash she dug it out and had to put in the stores recycling.. at one point she did not know we had a place for glass and I found out of guilt she took it home., like 80 jars to wash and recycle. We became good friends and she has a lot of issues, and my therapist friend explained some of it to me, but she told me this.. I have so little control over anything, and I feel this intense need to do this, save the planet, and I know on some level that I can't, but I have to do this. I knew that this was because she had so many issues and that for her, this was something that she thought she could control. She knew I was the opposite, and would never lay awake worried I put 200 plastic spoons in the landfill. I did get it, and because of her low self esteem, lack of respect from her kids and family, that this made her feel worthy. She is much better years later.. I convinced her to go back to school.
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Post by hiding on Jul 3, 2012 11:25:14 GMT -5
I'm not going to plague y'all with everything I throw away and my accompanying thought processes. But I am going to do some listing for awhile, at first, until I get a better grip on amnesty.
I threw away 2 pairs of jeans, 1 pair of pantyhose, and a large box of dishwasher soap that had turned into a brick.
The jeans were threadbare and many rips. Same with the pantyhose. The box of dishwasher soap has been taking up space in the kitchen for at least 5 years. The dishwasher broke longer than 5 years ago. It is true that Sweetie does, in fact, repair many broken things around here. However. he hasn't gotten to the dishwasher and probably won't. I think this is one large item that will end up going to the dump. In the meantime, it sits in the kitchen holding up piles of misc clutter.
It was difficult for me to throw the jeans away even though they were shot. "I need to keep all exhausted jeans to make patches from or to make rags from." How much patch material and rags do we need, really? And how often do I actually get around to patching jeans?
The dishwasher soap belonged to Sweetie. He bought it and it was his. I am super hesitant to throw out his stuff. Yes, he is a hoarder too. But I don't feel right in bugging him about his stuff when I have so much of my own to deal with. Maybe when I get my spaces clutter free, then I can have that conversation with him. In the meantime, I need to work on myself and my own messes. Besides, I have read on this forum, that sometimes another person in the hoarding household is inspired by example. I believe that can happen with us too.
Fellow 12 Step Buddies, remember the phrase from the Big Book, "Trudging the happy road of destiny"? That's what I'm doing.
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Post by Freedom on Jul 3, 2012 13:02:39 GMT -5
For me, collecting stuff to recycle becomes a hording activity in itself.
I do what I can, for the rest I claim amnesty.
ps, I don't patch jeans either ...
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Post by hiding on Jul 6, 2012 13:37:08 GMT -5
I have given some thought to amnesty and recycling. If items "to be recycled" build up to the point where they become a problem and are unmanageable, I think the best course is to toss them.
However, recycling is one activity that I did establish effectively many years ago. My recycled items do not build up very far because we go to the recycling center often. 2-4 times a month. The only exception to that is when the truck was down for several months. Then the recycling did build up, but in the back of the truck.
We like to keep our vehicle fuel costs as low as possible, so we combine going to the recycling center with needing to go to other places near the center. It works out well for us. I, we, do have a few good habits. Unfortunately they often seem overshadowed by the multitude of bad ones.
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Post by ClutterBlind on Jul 7, 2012 21:31:19 GMT -5
In this regard, what I am having a terrible time with is being able to toss an item that is new, that I have not gotten my use out of yet but is unsuitable for some reason. I bought a bra online, not unusual behavior for me. I detest shopping in clothing stores so I buy all my clothes online or at yard sales. Usually the bras I buy online fit well and are just what I want. But I got sucked into a different design and manufacturer by a discounted price. The discount bra is the correct size but is badly constructed. I let it sit around in the package too long before I wore it, so the return date has passed. What's wrong with it? The piece of fabric/elastic between the two cups is scratchy, abrasive. Yes I could fix it. Yes I could put it in my free box. But I don't want to spend any time fixing it. Giving it away would be passing along the problem to someone else. Yes, it was really difficult to throw away a basically new item, but I did. The money I lost in purchasing a bra that was not useable? I'll chalk that up to paying for a lesson. I argued with myself for a week before I finally threw it away. I learned quite a bit from this experience and I hope my stumblings might be of help to some of you. Congrats on your sobriety. Also congrat on finally being able to throw away the bra. Tucked inside the Amnesty thread is a link to a thread on the concept of Sink Costs, which is what the situation you mentioned is about. That you didn't get full use out of it for your money. The fact is: you sunk your money into the item regardless of whether you were able to use it or not. Whether you would have kept it until it rotted away, or if you donated it. the money is already gone. Some things, you do NOT get an equal exchange back. As the Lioness says in this thread: Ever go to a movie, and you sit through 2 horrible hours you will never get back? I know we all wish we could get our money back, if nothing else. Sometimes we can't foresee or predict future events to decisions we've made. All those people who bought Facebook stock on the day it went public are regretting it now. The stock market can be quite a lesson on Sunk Costs, at times. takeonestepatatime.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=favorites&thread=18634 Also, I want to point out that you thought that giving it away would be passing along the problem to someone else. YOU are adding that story onto that bra. You don't know if someone else, who had skin of rawhide, would have the same problem. OR if someone else has such a tough time finding new bras at Goodwill that FIT, that she would be willing to fix the problem, like putting band-Aid tape over the area. Maybe a kid needed a good stretchy, brand new elastic bra to turn into a slingshot for a science experiment. You could have chosen to think of any one of those scenarios instead of staying with one that kept you stuck. |
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Post by catherina on Jul 7, 2012 21:54:04 GMT -5
I have problems with getting rid of stuff too. Not that I don't want to, and it's not an agonizing decision to make whether to donate, chuck or recycle, but once I've made th decision for something to go, I want it gone NOW. Unfortunately, the council keep changing our days for recycling / rubbish collecting, and the weathers so bad, I can't leave a box of newspapers out to get sodden, because then they won't take it anyway. So for me it's easier to leave stuff where it is, usually on the floor. And when recycling / rubbish day does come around, or a day I have time to take stuff to the charity shop, it's all too much to organise, and I miss that slot. So it stays where it is, and builds up even more.
That's why I admire those who can not only make a decision, and follow it through.
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Post by fluffychild on Jul 8, 2012 21:44:48 GMT -5
Ally: Talking about fabric. One month when I had off from work, I went through my grandmother's fabric. I had over 17 boxes - 1,245 yards of fabric. My grandmother would see a "remnant and had to have it. I gave it all to a church that makes quilts for the needy. My houses are stuffed and I am not proud of it. I have Wednesday off this week, so in the afternoon, my neighbor and I are going to a place that he calls "Macy's". It has the best stuff and the best prices. It is our township's town dump - there is a section where the people put the good stuff and you can take it. He is going to tell me all the ins and outs of it and he is telling me the best times to go. He goes, we also get you a permit. I already have the permit to get into the dump. Does it make sense what I want to do?
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Post by ClutterBlind on Jul 12, 2012 19:22:16 GMT -5
Thanks for starting this thread. I think many of us struggle with the same thing We hold on to things because: We spent money on them They have memories attached to them I have plans to make something with them. We don't want to be wasteful Edited to add: We had a dream and letting go means letting go of the dream. Over the past few days I have uncovered pieces of fabric that I intended to use to make quilts and fabric walhangings for DD's room. That was 18 to 20 years ago. Some of them are started, but not completed. Some of them were never started. I have bags and bins of fabric. This is hard for me. I think If I had not had to work full time I would have finished many of these projects. I know I have yards and yards of fabric that I had planned to make dresses out of for my daughter and neices. They are all grown up now. I think one reason I struggle with this [sorting through fabric] is because it makes me feel like a failure. I mean... who in their right mind would go out and buy 10 yards of fabric to make dresses, when there are already 10 (or more) unfinished projects at home? I must have been nuts. But now that I think about it, I always wanted to work part-time and be able to devote several hours a day to these creative outlets. I think I was buying stuff for the dream I had. The dream that I had a glimpse of for only a short time and then every thing fell apart. I also had a dream to make scrub tops or jackets to sell at work. I actually bought yards and yards of fabric for this "business venture" and think I may have only made one of two tops. Digging up this stuff reminds me of my failed attempts.
Tossing it is hard. It means letting go of a dream.I posted some of this on another thread, but it's appropriate here also. I read somewhere that for people who don't finish projects, it may not be a sign of failure. Just that we have a different reason for doing things. I am an artist. I like to start different types of craft projects. I'm always intrigued by how to do things. The process. Once I get far enough along to figure out the process, and can see where it's going, how it will be finished, I may not need to keep going to the end. Having an actual finished project may not be as important to me as understanding the process. Other times, I may realize early on that the project is not going to turn out as I had hoped or expected. It has nothing to do with practicing more, or acquiring more skill first. That particular project, the way I envisioned it, isn't going to work out. Da Vinci was infamous for "unfinished" projects. And he was no slouch!  So many of our greatest creative Masters left "unfinished" works. Also, how will I know if I even like doing that particular craft if I never tried doing it? I need to do the process enough to realize, "This isn't the craft for me. It's pleasant, but ultimately, it doesn't grab my heart the way I thought it would. I like looking at, touching, holding, feeling, having a finished item of this process more than I like the process of making them. For example, I absolutely LOVE  gorgeous, soft, fluffy yarn, hand-knitted, intricately patterned sweaters. I just love wrapping myself in them.  But, I realized, I am just not the sort to sit down & knit one for myself. It took several balls of yarn and quite a few attempts to figure that out. There was no way to have known that until I tried the process a few times. Now, I just buy them instead and marvel at someone else's handiwork. Most recently, I tried returning to a particular craft again. I used to teach it and (in my head) I would love to teach again. I even spent a great deal of money taking a few refresher courses again and have a wonderful mentor who would love to tutor me. Yet, for whatever reason, at this time, my enthusiasm & a spontaneous passion that constantly brings up new ideas has ultimately petered out. No matter how good the ideas & directions & can go with this in my head, my heart & passion just aren't into it the way I once was. Yes, I can study to become really skilled and good at it. But, at this point, I kind of doubt the finished items will ever have the emotion to grab an audience the way a fantastic piece of art has grabbed me. (That's where my personal standard is set.) To me, that's what elevates art from craft. That spontaneous passion just hasn't been there for many other crafts I tried. It may have been there at the initial onset, but petered out. Theses processes and realizations aren't intellectual things one can figure out in advance. Art & crafts are more a doing for the maker. It's the actual journey of making that is the most satisfying. That's why when one piece is finished, we start the process again. The finished item is just a happy (or frustrating) by-product of the process. If we just wanted the finished piece, we could more easily buy someone else's product that gives us that same feeling. The fact that some of us get to sell our work and people actually like it enough to buy, is just icing!  For the audience, it is an intellectual process or about acquiring things. But, ultimately, for the maker - it's a doing. And when you stop doing, it's time to let the supplies go. But, don't kick yourself for having tried something, for having had a previous passion & dream for it. We grow. Time for a new dreams that fit us now and the space available to do them. If all your dreams are in the past, then there's something wrong. I think one reason I struggle with this [sorting through fabric] is because it makes me feel like a failure. I mean... who in their right mind would go out and buy 10 yards of fabric to make dresses, when there are already 10 (or more) unfinished projects at home? I must have been nuts. But now that I think about it, I always wanted to work part-time and be able to devote several hours a day to these creative outlets.
I think I was buying stuff for the dream I had. The dream that I had a glimpse of for only a short time and then every thing fell apart.
I also had a dream to make scrub tops or jackets to sell at work. I actually bought yards and yards of fabric for this "business venture" and think I may have only made one of two tops.
Digging up this stuff reminds me of my failed attempts.
Tossing it is hard. It means letting go of a dream. The bolded part, to me, sounds like you had a real passion & love for fabric & sewing. How is having passion & loving something a bad thing? Passion & Love are two of the greatest things in life. Some people never find it, either in a person or a pursuit. I bet you felt great joy in finding each piece of fabric, in touching them, in marveling at the colors. Excited about your find, imagining ways to use the fabrics. Now, you are beating yourself up for it and calling yourself nuts for having experienced that joy & excitement. The problem wasn't that you found and had a dream. It didn't fit into your life ultimately, or you would have found a way to make it work. You would have fought through whatever made it all fall apart. Instead, you chose something else. Thank that time in your life and the passion, love & excitement the fabrics gave you. But, just like you don't sit in a movie theatre 2 hours after having watched the best movie of your life, it's time to get up and move on to what your life is actually about now. |
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Post by Freedom on Jul 13, 2012 11:15:57 GMT -5
Yesterday I decided to throw away, discard, in the trash, the all-cotton sheets my DMom used when she was ill, at the last.
I have kept these all this time, and besides being severely yellowed, they make me sad.
I decided this when I was ready to put them into an Oxy soak ONE MORE TIME.
I have other all-cotton sheets. If these made me feel cared for and connected, nothing would be too good for them. They make me sad.
They are gone.
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Post by hiding on Mar 19, 2013 0:17:55 GMT -5
Back to thoughts on amnesty for tossing. This time it is food.
I go to out of town meetings for work. One regular meeting I go to has great food brought in for lunch. There is always food left over for folks to take home if they want to. I take some back to my hotel for dinner and it saves me $. Besides, it really is so good. What the meeting participants don't take gets packaged up and taken to a shelter. I like that the extra gets eaten and appreciated.
My problem is that I am not good in estimating how much I will comfortably eat. My hoarder self and my fear of scarcity self takes more than I can deal with. Since I go home on the plane and they won't let you take any food through security I have to throw away any I have with me. I don't feel like dragging the food to the airport to throw away so I have to throw it away in my room. I could leave it for the cleaning staff but since the items aren't individually sealed, the cleaning staff would be justified in being cautious about unknown food from an unknown source.
I've had to throw away delicious high quality food twice now and it is agonizing for me. So next time I go to the meeting, I am only going to take what I can really eat.
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Post by lucie on Mar 19, 2013 2:29:14 GMT -5
Thank you for the reminder, Linoness, this thread was an eye opener when I read it for the first time... I realised I am not going to wear those fancy pearls I have had for many years in hope I will wear skirts more than trousers. I will not, so out they went. I try to reduce a number of things I keep for "one day when I change my ways". When I do change my ways, I will revard myself and buy something new. |
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Post by imamess on Mar 19, 2013 5:04:24 GMT -5
During the last few years, I have struggled with getting rid of masses of things. For years I found myself churning and 'organizing' and seeing memories or remembering how much I spent. It's really hard to give up dreams of doing certain crafts plus I've always loved the 'gathering'. If I had saved the money I spent on 'gathering', I would be much more comfortable financially now. But, then is then and now is now.
My living room is decluttered and clean enough that I can open the door to anyone who drops by. I love the feeling of not being ashamed to open the door. SOS has taught me that I only have a certain amount of space and my house will not expand proportionally to the junk that I try to stuff into it.
I still have problem areas, but I have come a long way and I don't want to go back. I notice dust and dirt now that I never noticed before. After giving away most of my precious books, now I can see more that need to go out the door, because I will never read them. Getting rid of 16 milk crates of magazines released me from keeping new ones that I subscribe to; now I pass them on to other people in a month or two, or realize that I can use my computer to read on whatever subject I want without the additional cost of a magazine.
"it's time to get up and move on to what your life is actually about now" This is what I need to print out and read every day. This has been a wonderful thread. Thanks very much.
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