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Post by blossoming on Sept 21, 2010 21:24:41 GMT -5
have you heard that saying, before enlightenment you have to chop wood and carry water. after enlightenment, you have to chop wood and carry water. i googled that and got a thing that discusses housework done attentively. the fifth paragraph is completely about wiping a counter. i had not read it until just now and not when i wrote the first post.  www.interluderetreat.com/meditate/chop.htm |
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Post by WestsideStory on Sept 22, 2010 1:17:34 GMT -5
thanks for the link, blossoming.
WestsideStory
who, in the interests of full-self disclosure, read it while radio news was streaming in the background in between spoonfuls of late-night-soup-for-dinner, and was mindful of the irony of all this multi-tasking
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Post by toomuchstuph on Sept 22, 2010 21:02:05 GMT -5
Thank you one and all for the thoughts, links and quotes.
There's some really amazing insightful things here. Thank you all for sharing them.
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Post by ClutterBlind on Sept 23, 2010 18:38:07 GMT -5
Thank you, Blossoming. This has been one of the most powerful and important thought and life altering shifts you've given me. Not just about cleaning, but about my life.  This couldn't have come at a better time. Several years ago, I had a traumatic experience that put me in PTSD and chronic, low grade depression for years. During my grief, I stopped doing things I used to do that brought me joy. I let this place decay & go into squalor. A month ago, I wrote a thread about how I had a cleaning person come to my apartment to clean my kitchen & bathroom for 3 hours. He was able to accomplish more in those 3 hours than I was able to do in years of various deep cleanings. I would be overwhelmed after hours of working one tiny area and give up. I felt like I was trying to dig myself out of an avalanche with a spoon. I would walk into my kitchen & bathroom every morning and feel guilty, and a failure that once again I hadn't cleaned the day before. I resented the deep cleanings as I was exhausted and it was never enough. I resented the semi-cleaned kitchen, afraid to use anything, as I know it would just start to the road to squalor again. I resented the dirty kitchen as it was always a reminder of my failures to keep it clean. This time, because of what the cleaning guy accomplished, (he had made me take everything out, in order to clean,) even the walls, which I had him wash, sparkled. Every time I walked into my kitchen & bathroom I felt immense joy, relief, calmness and space around me. There was order. It is such a stark contrast to my still cluttered living area, the difference is even more noticeable. Which is what makes this thread so timely. I actually love going into my kitchen now. The first several days, I was still anxious about using it. I was afraid one time in the kitchen, one spill not wiped up could lead back to squalor. When I spilled something, I made myself clean it right away. After a while I realized, I wanted to keep my kitchen clean. I was finally on top of things for the first time. I didn't want to lose that. Every time I clean my counter now, I feel it is an act of self-love.  I WANT to keep my kitchen clean. I want to continue to feel joy when I walk into my kitchen. I like to cook in a clean, sparse, organized kitchen. My cleaning is guarding that joy. Your idea that cleaning is part of a cycle of things being temporary is revolutionary for me. After a deep clean, the cleaned kitchen used to be the END product. That's why I hated using the kitchen again. You made me realize, it's not the end. It is a through process. Kitchens are meant to be used. The purpose of a kitchen is not to be clean and unused, like a museum. Life happens during our using of items. We experience Life through our actions, not our stagnations. There is an incredible amount of joy and pleasure & enrichment to be had while using certain items. To be able to walk into a clean kitchen and joyfully cook in a place that is calming and organized, instead of dirty, cluttered and chaotic, is a wonderful experience. THOSE experiences are what I want in my life. Cleaning is part of the cycle: after joyfully making messes, clean so one can use the kitchen again, and with just as much joy the next time. Cleaning the kitchen has now become a way to prepare, to start fresh, have a joyful kitchen to walk into again, use, create, make messes in. Clean --> Joyfully being used --> Dirty --> Clean --> Joyfully being used. . . It occurs to me that when I watch Top Chef, they always show the cleaning at the end. It is to erase their messes. To prepare for a new day, starting fresh with a clean slate, instead of working around all the messes and inconveniences of life lived the day before. As Betsymarie said about brushing teeth, I am never resentful about doing laundry. I love a stack of clean clothes. Especially, if I hadn't worn something for quite a while because it was at the bottom of the laundry bag. It's like have a fresh new wardrobe.  On a Life level, you made me realize, yes, burn some candles. There is an old thread in the forum about this. I had long ago stopped burning candles when I fell into grief & despair. Before that, I loved burning candles.  I used to have many. They brought me such joy. I used to buy them all the time. They are made to be temporary, to be consumed while their scent & color are still fresh. To save them is actually a mis-use of them, or more accurately, a missed opportunity for joy. I suspect, if a candle was a living object, its greatest desire would be to be burned as is its intended purpose, and give joy or comfort during its temporary life. Not to be stored away while its scent & essence slowly fade away. Life is so temporary. We need to actively seek out all the moments we can find that give us joy and DO them, not let grief, depression, inertia, rob us of those times. Burn my candles, use all my craft paints & supplies up, make designs in kitty litter, (I love that idea, Betsymarie!)  get fresh new sheets. I've been looking for a "permanent" comforter pattern & sheet set forever, meanwhile sleeping under a ratty old comforter and worn out sheets. I missed opportunities to just pamper myself with "temporary" fresh, new sheets, before they also eventually got tossed from wear, meanwhile I'd still be here looking for the right pretty design. |
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Post by urocyon on Sept 23, 2010 20:33:45 GMT -5
Sounds like you've had some important insights, clutterblind.  This thread helped pull together a number of things for me. I think the guilt and shame were keeping me from seeing that the house situation is not somehow different from the rest of my life, which I've been learning to approach more mindfully. Even though I was familiar with the chopping wood and carrying water saying, the huge mess of anxiety kept me from applying it very literally. Now I keep coming back to one quote from Jack Forbes: "Religion is, in reality, living. Our religion is not what we profess, or what we say, or what we proclaim; our religion is what we do, what we desire, what we seek, what we dream about, what we fantasize, what we think - all these things - twenty-four hours a day. One's religion, then, is ones life, not merely the ideal life but the life as it is actually lived." ( he continues). This is pretty much the way I've been looking at things, but the blame and shame was keeping me from applying it to my physical living situation. And kicking myself while continuing to live in squalor is not how I want to be in this world. That's not a balanced way of living. What's been discussed in this thread so far really applies here. You made me realize, it's not the end. It is a through process. Kitchens are meant to be used. The purpose of a kitchen is not to be clean and unused, like a museum. Life happens during our using of items. We experience Life through our actions, not our stagnations. There is an incredible amount of joy and pleasure & enrichment to be had while using certain items. To be able to walk into a clean kitchen and joyfully cook in a place that is calming and organized, instead of dirty, cluttered and chaotic, is a wonderful experience. THOSE experiences are what I want in my life. Cleaning is part of the cycle: after joyfully making messes, clean so one can use the kitchen again, and with just as much joy the next time. Cleaning the kitchen has now become a way to prepare to start fresh, have a joyful kitchen to walk into again, use, create, make messes in. Clean --> Joyfully being used --> Dirty --> Clean --> Joyfully being used. . . ... Life is so temporary. We need to actively seek out all the moments we can find that give us joy and DO them, not let grief, depression, inertia, rob us of those times. Well said!  Your post was touching, and gave me more to think about. Thanks for sharing your new insights! I've also had trouble with depression, PTSD, and anxiety. Which turned into a vicious circle with the squalor. It's been truly amazing how much of the depression, worry, and hopelessness has lifted, just getting my kitchen most of the way desqualored and making a good start elsewhere. Cultivating the kind of environment that makes you feel good (and capable)? Priceless. |
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Post by carolinastomper on Sept 24, 2010 18:09:17 GMT -5
Blossoming,
as soon as I saw your first post I wanted to send a big thank you. I came to this site today filled with despair and guilt, anger and frustration, but not knowing how to deal with it. Your post gave me a lot to think about. The link you added later was perfectly timed. As I looked through it I added it to my favorites and is a site that I think will be very meaningful to me. Big happy teary hug here. Thank you.
Clutterblind, wow. How expressive and insightful.
Such thought provoking ideas are always found here. Thank you both for the much needed mood lift.
carolinastomper
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anyway
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Post by anyway on Oct 1, 2010 0:28:50 GMT -5
I really like this analogy. I love the idea of mandalas. Along the same lines, I read Zen and the Art of Housekeeping last summer and it was really eye-opening for me. I attempted to put some of it into practice but at the time I was in too deep to get to a point where I could enjoy housework. At some point in the past year I recall seeing that poor book covered in something that the kids had spilled.  I would like to read it again now that I'm in maintenance. It was quite good. |
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Post by toomuchstuph on Oct 1, 2010 0:54:59 GMT -5
Ohhhhhhh - thanks for the book mention anyway. Looks interesting!
A little snippie from the Amazon review:
* If the kitchen is the heart of the home, what is the heart of the kitchen?
* What is the color of clean?
* If the purpose of cleaning is to remove dirt, what is the purpose of dirt?
* What fills empty spaces?
* Whose footprints are on your floor?
I LIKE those!
I've just started re-reading Spiritual Housecleaning: Healing the Space Within by Beautifying the Space Around You by Kathryn Robyn. I read this 6 or 7 years ago and based on this thread, it seemed to be a good time to re-read. I'm not far into it but so far, there are a lot of good reminders about the how and why of creating a peaceful calming home.
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Post by blossoming on Oct 1, 2010 1:05:09 GMT -5
wow. i have gotten so much out of reading yalls responses. i was almost embarsed to post this originally as it seemed kind of odd to me. how cool that you guys took it way further. neat.
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anyway
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Post by anyway on Oct 1, 2010 11:17:36 GMT -5
blossoming I really want to thank you for posting this. After reading last night I started really thinking about this and realized that mandalas are a really great way to think of cleaning. I'm now looking for ways to incorporate them into my decorating, to remind myself of the cycle and the importance of beauty despite the impermanence.
One of the ways we keep on top of daily and weekly tasks is to make a to-do list on a whiteboard in the kitchen each day. It only takes a moment and it's so satisfying to cross something off a list as it gets done. Today I'm adding a to-do mandala - as each task of the day is completed (including tasks that don't make it to the list like picking up after the kids or making a meal and cleaning up after myself, or doing another load of laundry), I get to add a circle to my mandala, until at the end of the day I have something beautiful to look at as a reminder of all the things I've accomplished. Then it will be erased in the morning so I can start over again.
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Post by blossoming on Oct 1, 2010 17:40:21 GMT -5
wow. WHAT A COOL IDEA. count it stolen.
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anyway
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Post by anyway on Oct 2, 2010 12:04:31 GMT -5
Yay! Steal away. I was thinking it sounded really corny but man it was motivating yesterday. We only had about 5 items on the to-do list and I think only 3 got crossed off, but by evening we had a HUGE mandala on the board. Every time either Hubby or I did a task that took any time at all, we added a ring. I have several colors of dry-erase markers so we used lots of color. About mid-day I was a little concerned about "wasting" the time here and there adding the rings, but then when I saw the end result it made those few extra minutes in the day totally worth it. It was really eye-opening to see how much we really get done in a day, even if our to-do list doesn't get completed (which can be pretty discouraging sometimes.) I was even happy to erase the mandala because I was excited about starting a new one today. |
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Post by ClutterBlind on Oct 2, 2010 20:07:03 GMT -5
I just want to clarify, as much as I got an epiphany from this thread, that I wrote about above, I don't think I will ever find the actual act of cleaning to be joyful, zen or an enlightening experience. I don't want people backing off from this thread because they feel it's somehow become some serene experience for me. But, I now realize, it is a means to a greater end, that I DO want: a clean kitchen to be able to USE. That end product is where I feel the joy. So I tolerate the cleaning now, when I couldn't before. After the cleaning person came in, I was so fearful that I wouldn't be able to keep the kitchen & bathroom clean. I am happy to report, it's been 5 weeks, and the areas are still relatively clean!  I had actually mopped the kitchen twice. Considering, mopping twice in a year was previously a lot, mopping twice in one month is stupendous. The first time I mopped was because I had a large spill, so that was unplanned.  When I mopped the second time, I also mopped the bathroom for the first time. It was then that I realized people here were right, when they say more frequent maintenance makes each cleaning quicker. The kitchen had been a breeze to mop, since it had already been done a couple weeks before. But, the bathroom, had already had caked on dirt and had to be scrubbed, and took almost as much time as when I used to do a deep cleaning. A few days ago, I walked into the kitchen & it looked a bomb had hit it. There were silverware, used paper plates, utensils & dirty pots & pans all over the place. Only one person lives here, and the place was a huge mess in only a couple days. Normally, I'd go into overwhelm or immediately become exhausted just looking at the mess. I'd tell myself I'll deal with it all later, then never get around to it. I'd only clean the 2-3 items I'd immediately need. But, this time, I didn't have fear that I wouldn't clean it up. I kept in mind how much more joyful walking into a clean, empty kitchen made me feel, and I wanted to get back to that. It made taking that extra time to tackle the first thing in cleaning up the mess easier. I could see through the cleaning, to get to the end product: a clean kitchen and the relief, satisfaction, peace & calmness I'd feel at the end. My supermarket had a huge sale on canned veggies, half off ($1) each can. I bought 25 cans. The bags are still lying around. But, I don't fear that this time, I won't put them away. I think about how much energy I used to use pretending not to see them there. Meanwhile playing hopscotch around each bag to walk through the hall and kitchen, or that cat hair & kitty liter dust used to collect around the bags, making it harder to sweep & clean. The feelings of defeat that would come at seeing it all, then trying to go numb to not see it, I realize, it really is so much LESS energy and unpleasantness to just haul the bags to the shelves and stack them away. And, always now, I want that peace, calmness & joy of walking over an uncluttered, clean floor. 5 weeks hasn't been that long in making me forget how I used to feel. The other 3/4 of my apartment still to be uncluttered is a huge reminder of the difference, too, and where ultimately I want to get to. Ohhhhhhh - thanks for the book mention anyway. Looks interesting! A little snippie from the Amazon review: * If the kitchen is the heart of the home, what is the heart of the kitchen? * What is the color of clean? * If the purpose of cleaning is to remove dirt, what is the purpose of dirt? * What fills empty spaces? * Whose footprints are on your floor? I LIKE those! I've just started re-reading Spiritual Housecleaning: Healing the Space Within by Beautifying the Space Around You by Kathryn Robyn. Those look like great books. Too bad they aren't for Kindle. I've been reading the previews. When you click on "Surprise me" a few times, it does bring up a little about "What fills empty spaces." However, Anyway, I am curious, what is the purpose of dirt? Do you remember what the author said? I'm thinking, it's along the lines of what I said in my post, dirt/messes are evidence of life being lived. I don't know if it has a purpose, per se, but it is a by-product of people having been there, having had a good time. I know I've been to people's seemingly sterile homes, (my own after a deep clean,) and not want to move, lest I disturb something. That's not a comfortable way to live. To act like your presence wasn't ever there. It's very invalidating really. Don't we all have a need to leave our "mark" while we are here? I want to think even temporary messes are okay. I'd be interested in finding out what that author says the purpose of dirt is. |
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Post by blossoming on Oct 2, 2010 20:21:53 GMT -5
inside dirt, i'm not sure. outside dirt, i LOVE. i am one of those grown people who has to literally be trained to not jsut plop down on teh ground wherever i am. i like the ground, the earth, mud, dirt, all of it. i like the smell, the squishiness, all of it. i would live in a mud hut with zebras if i could. but i've heard zebras are often late with their rent payments and that mud huts cave in during tornados so a different lifestyle for me, then. well. slightly. my regular lifestyles gives me lots of reason to squish around in the dirt.
re crud on bathroom floor. a technical note. if you happen to use hairspray, it will quickly attract dirt to it and make incredible black stains on a bathroom floor. use shampoo to get it up.
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Post by ClutterBlind on Oct 2, 2010 21:25:02 GMT -5
Blossoming, you reminded me, I love to make pottery. I had actually stayed away from it for years, even though my roommate in college was doing it as her major. I stayed away because my mother, (the squalorous hoarder,) thought it was dirty. That it was working with dirt & mud and what a nasty thing to do. She didn't understand that the "dirt" (clay) is actually mined minerals, sterilized, and it is used in a controlled fashion. Even after I made several great pieces and showed her, (after taking pottery up as an adult,) she looked at the pieces and only thought of the dirty process. My sister was the one to finally educate her that it's not "dirt." I think about all the years of pleasure I didn't get to have, because I was influenced by a squalorous hoarder, who had no part in judging someone else's messes and who lacked any real knowledge about what pottery is really about. It also took me years to realize how much she criticizes everything. How much that has had such a profoundly negative effect on my own life. Yes, I'm realizing there are certain times to love "dirt."  What an incredibly interesting thread this is!  |
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