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Post by heylady1 on Oct 16, 2008 10:33:21 GMT -5
I was just thinking about this one day and started to think of people I have known or know now who live in one of the stages of squalor. I was amazed by the number of people that I know...
Starting from childhood:
I had a best friend whose house I slept over at. Definite level 3. Goat trails from one room to another. It was like being in a forest or something. I thought it was kinda cool really.
My brothers room. Level 2 for sure!
Another friend. The whole family raised and showed dogs. Because of all the dog related stuff (crates, grooming tables, leashes, dishes, etc..) and smells, poop, etc...level 3. I loved being at this house though!! Loved all the dogs!
On my mother's side of the family we had an Aunt Effy who hoarded from my mother's account. I never met her personally.
Another relative, Aunt Marla. We went to visit her and had to sit outside. You could see stuff crammed in her windows but what I remember most is the lovely picnic table she had outside underneath a huge oak tree. She made some lemonade for us too and I remember thinking how nice she was.
On my father's side of the family we had my great-grandmother. I think I take after her. The main areas of her home were in good shape, everything usable. But in her laundry room it was crammed packed. Same with all the closets, etc...a truely amazing woman with a very colorful life. So level 0 in most areas and some level 2.
My grandmother hoarded food. We used to go over and clean out her fridge for her as she couldn't seem to do that. She couldn't throw away food no matter how old and spoiled. At the time I thought it was odd because she was soooo neat in every other aspect. Now I understand. I loved her anyway. She was one of the most interesting people I've ever known.
Fast forward a few years:
A roommate who would have been level 3 if I hadn't been cleaning up after her. She hated to clean and wouldn't do so even after she'd had a party. When we each moved out her new place quickly went to a level 3. We stayed friends until I moved down here to Florida.
My husbands mother and step-father. Both serious hoarders. Solid level 2. No rotting food and you could walk through the house but it was crammed full of everything. Every surface full, that kind of thing. Wonderful people though who would give you the shirt off their backs. And boy let me tell you, could his mom cook!! She was awesome!
My husband's brother who when married lived in level 3. He divorced several years later kept his own place at level .5 and passed away about 8 years ago.
A co-worker that I was good friends with. I'd have to say level 4. In fact she gave me our dog. One of her dogs had pups and that's how we got Bowser. Not only did she and her husband both hoard but they were animal collectors too. They always cared for their animals but were always struggling with it you know? Nice, nice people but he had a heart attack and they both ended up moving in with their daughter in another state.
Another co-worker (the one who took the kitten) who lives in a level 1 but her mother who lives upstairs from her is a solid 2 bordering on 3. Goat trails here too. The mother lived in east germany for most of her life and had nothing until she came here so now she hoards....
One of my son's friends. He and his grandmother (who has cared for him since he was a child) have always lived in level 4 throughout the home - well at least as long as my son has known him. Which is at least 12 years now. He's kind of messed up with ADD and other issues but basically a nice guy. But I do worry about his future.
Another friend of my son. He's been living in level 3 but basically his house is all torn apart because the dad started remodeling the house and never finished. Been this way for at least 15 years. His mom has issues with hoarding/cleaning too.
Another son's friend. This one is lives in a fluctuating level 1 to 2.
People in the various neighborhoods:
A lady who lived next door to us many years ago. Serious level 4 that spread not only through-out the house but into a Winnebaggo (motor home) outside. I felt sorry for her because she spent hours and hours of her time shuffling things from one area to another.
The guy across the street from us now. I don't know what the inside of his house is like but I do know the outside is very messy. I know he has financial squalor as his power and water are constantly being turned off. This is one of the few people I know that I can honestly say is an ***hole. His wife passed away 2 years ago, and yeah he was a jerk to her even when it was obvious that she wasn't feeling well. He doesn't hit his kids (at least not what we've seen) but he's mean to them and obnoxious to everyone else.
Sometimes I think that this squalor thing is a lot more prevelant than we even realise.
Do you know people who are living in squalor too??
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Post by notsomessyshell on Oct 16, 2008 11:36:24 GMT -5
I have to say I think there are more than I ever thought there were.
I remember a dear friend growing up. She lived right behind me and yet we never, ever went to her house. One time I did and it was at least a 4. She however was immaculate. I don't know how she did it.
My bro and sil lived at 2 to 4 most of their kids childhood. Now they are .5 to 1. Only one of their children is taking after them. She and her hubby lived at 2 to 3 until losing their house and moving back home. Now they have to keep the common areas clean. I have no idea what their room looks like, however.
Guy on the corner is definitely a hoarder. The city has been here a few times to clean house and yard up. Just stuff.
Family across the street and down a few houses seems to be a level 2 or more. The children reek. I feel so sorry for them. I know they are trying I see them cleaning up and throwing out bags and bags of garbage. I hope the inside is getting better. The outside is definitely looking nicer.
I believe my gramma was a hoarder.
I have an uncle on dad's side who was a huge hoarder. His house was a maze of pathways and piles of stuff. Not garbage, just stuff. I remember as kids we thought he was the best. He had everything! Now I realize how sadly he lived. He was lonely.
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Post by messymimi on Oct 16, 2008 11:36:51 GMT -5
I've known a very few. I'm the worst I know. Or maybe some people just hide it better than I do.
messymimi
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Post by fluffernut - now Jannie on Oct 16, 2008 15:00:46 GMT -5
My fried Sara at work said her father was a water meter reader, who had to enter people's homes to read their meters. He said he entered at least one filthy dirty house every day. You can't tell from the outside how people live! My sister B. got married very young to a man who was a wife-beater and dog hoarder. They lived in various rented houses. One time, they were going to move and she asked me to help. I did because I felt so sorry for my sis. I knew she got beat up any time she got her husband angry, like the time she didn't bake his favorite pie for dinner. Anyway, I went down in the basement to get something and it was full of dog poop. He let the dogs use the basement as a toilet rather than walk them. Squalor is everywhere!
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Post by ramatama on Oct 16, 2008 15:21:10 GMT -5
I know two first response people ERT from two different continents and both have told me that they are a lot more likely to remember homes that were impeccable than not, because they are far less often. They told me that all the places they go to have things lying around, dishes, papers about, piles in corners, boxes, packaging etc. First responders to an emergency get to see conditions as they are day to day. There is no time to get the place cleaned up as it is for those who come to read the water meter or gas meter etc etc. But both also told me what shocks them most (and that for days) is when they see children and/or pets in very poor and unkempt state. That is when they must call the other social services. But that is not too often. They have no choice there, they must report it, they said. Both men said they knew kids make messes, but apparently it was grown up messes that the kids had to live in. I don't know. Maybe they thought so? Most of my older family members are "for show tidy" ( like me- ha! where did i learn it from! But the non-public rooms are heaps of piles. That, or the basements and attics were/are. Most of the young'uns are quite messy, but none is filthy, as far as i can tell... maybe they cleaned up before i stopped by?
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Post by fluffernut - now Jannie on Oct 16, 2008 15:46:59 GMT -5
My own mother';s house is a clutter mess. My brother (who lives with her) fell in his room and hurt his back. He couldn't move, had a spinal injury, so Mom called 911 and they sent an ambulance. The EMT's came and couldn't get up the stairs to the second floor because Mom had set boxes of junk/paper/etc on the steps. They first cleared the stairs, then went up to my brother.
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Post by canna on Oct 16, 2008 16:25:49 GMT -5
I grew up in a nice clean home. My mom -was June Cleaver type-, even to wearing only dresses always; and occasionally the pearls too. Ha. Never worked outside the home, always there. The house was never cluttered. My dad was a collector, of cameras and photography equipment, and some electronics- just a hobby. So not a lot of clutter at all, just his collection kept in the garage.
But, my Aunt and Uncle... My Aunt was a supreme shopaholic. My Uncle and her owned their own business for 30+ years (golf range). They had no children, but lots of $$. Boxes of stuff everywhere in thier house, ever since I can remember. When we went to visit, had to move boxes just to sit on the frontroom chairs,table etc. No garbage or rotting stuff or pet messes. They were very nice people, but the the clutter! My aunt loved Avon products too; that was very evident. After she passed away, my uncle didn't have a clue about getting rid of her stuff. I visited many times to help, and packed my car with donations each time I visited, he didn't mind at all. But the house was still always full of the boxes and boxes of stuff from years of shopping. One bedroom had so many shoes, would have made ImeldaMarcos jealous. And new, never worn, in boxes; dresses never worn, in the bags with tags. Soo many Dishes, closets and drawers in all rooms just packed with beautiful linens, wrapped packages galore for "birthday gifts"....Nice furniture packed in the spare rooms...
After my Uncle passed away, the family couldn't deal with all the stuff. This was way beyond garage sale. Hired a local autioneer to help us. They set up huge tent in the front yard, had an auction sale -for everything. Sold about 90% of all that stuff during that 7:am-7pm auction. Wow. Lots of people in town knew them for years because of their business, huge crowd showed up. It was fun too.
I really liked my Aunt and Uncle, but I'll always remember their cluttered -boxes- stuff- chochki etc etc house. HA.
My aunt used to say when I visited, "This is all MY good stuff.....That (pointing to the garage and big shed) is HIS JUNK!!" Ha.
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Post by Script on Oct 16, 2008 19:23:00 GMT -5
I have known many hoarders and squalorees and clutterbugs of different degrees. My work (freelance bookkeeper) brought me into lots of private homes and offices, often messy beyond words. Likewise some volunteer work (delivering Meals on Wheels) revealed scary living conditions of some seniors. Many of the seniors would NOT allow anyone into their homes; the food had to be left at the door. Or the door was opened just a crack. Sometimes the smell was incredible.
What I have learned: these problems can strike ANYWHERE, regardless of age, income, education.....
About 25 years ago on my street there was a youngish woman who 'went off the rails' when her husband left her. There were 4 kids in the family. Money wasn't really an issue, but mental and physical strain took its toll. Eventually the house was in 4th degree; bathroom problems; rotting food. The Children's Aid society investigated, as the kids were obviously LOSING WEIGHT. Various neighbours tried to help in different ways. I regularly brought over cooked food, until I was advised 'not to bother' as the kitchen was not usable and there were no regular mealtimes. The stench from the front door was incredible: old pet smells. I was told that there were 27 green garbage bags of laundry in the basement. This is the worst I have ever seen personally.
I believe that these problems ALWAYS existed. Maybe clutter and overbuying seem to be a modern issue in a consumer society. But issues of hoarding and various so-called 'miserly' habits are ancient.
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Post by moggyfan on Oct 16, 2008 20:07:19 GMT -5
When I was growing up, I had a friend whose home was probably a 2-3.
Other than that, I've never been in a home that was worse than a 1.
My mom was an average-to-good but not crazed housekeeper.
I'm the only person I know irl that has/had this problem :-(
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Post by morningglory on Oct 16, 2008 22:47:57 GMT -5
I have rarely seen squalor homes in real life.
My mother's home (including when I lived with her as a child) fluctuates between 0 and 3. She ALWAYS struggles to keep it livable. It only becomes a 0 when she does a manic cleaning (sometimes literally manic). The rest of the time it is 1-2. (On the other hand, my dad, whom I also lived with during part of my childhood, is an absolute neat freak. His second wife is the same way, and there house is always spotless and organized.)
My maternal g-grandmother was a hoarder, but her home was clean and usable, and she constantly had company. It was a humble home, not fancy or well-decorated, but certainly presentable enough for family and neighbors, even with her piles of newspapers stacked to the ceiling in the corners and her drawers jammed full of everything.
Everyone else I knew when I was growing up had homes that were at least clean and presentable, even though some struggled more than others with a bit of clutter or keeping up with the chores. Likewise with the people I know now. Their homes are clean and mostly tidy, with the exception of kids' toys needing picked up daily, or normal housekeeping and straightening (sometimes they have laundry baskets out, or dishes to be washed). I don't personally know anyone else with squalor homes, or whose homes are "off limits" to guests (as ours has been for the past 3 years).
I remember the first time I began to see homes with the kind of clutter that my husband and I have always dealt with. It was when I went house-hunting in a "small" town. (I considered it small, but others tell me that 14,000 is not a small town.) The homes, which were of course cleaned and made nice enough for potential buyers to walk through, nearly all had stacks of stuff pushed into corners, odds and ends laying around, and so forth. I was AMAZED, and somewhat comforted to realize that there seemed to be a culture where "my" kind of housekeeping was the norm!
If we could just get the house in good repair, and clean (no dirt or garbage), I wouldn't even mind so much having company see crates or boxes stacked neatly. (Although, of course, I'd rather also have all the junk sorted and pared down.)
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Post by greenfuzz on Oct 17, 2008 14:58:07 GMT -5
I am really the messiest person I know in person. My sister is prone to clutter but not moldy dishes and filthy floors etc, she has been 1-2 at times but also has a child.
I'm the only person I've ever personally known who can regularly be at level 3, that is normal for me. Right now I think I'm at 1-2. My floors are still dirty, but mostly clear of stuff and I feel Ok about how things are I want things to be better but the relief of how things are right now is palpable.
I don't think I'm a hoarder necessarily, I don't collect or buy a lot of things. But I can almost never make the decision to get rid of something very easily. I keep most of the things I do get, I can't call garbage garbage. I throw my stuff on the floor.
And I'm a poor organizer so things don't get a good place to live. In this house it's compounded by the fact that there really isn't enough good organizational space here. But any bit of improvement on it has helped, switching from a kitchen table which I never used, to a kitchen island with hooks and a lower shelf has helped me.
I've never known anyone like me. However my maternal grandmother could not through anything away, and her house while incredibly organized and neat often smelled of the cat and dog and the floors were dirty, even though she cleaned them they needed to be resurfaced or something. Her store had piles of boxes in the back. A jewelry shop is never neat, because there is an amazing amount of dust created by polishing, but it got on everything. She kept display materials that were way out of style and just hoarded like crazy.
My mother once told me she was messy until she had a baby, and then she hormonally changed and kept everything clean. She was a kind of an obsessive purger of stuff most of her life, she would throw so much away and was very frustrated at how messy I was. I became worried about throwing things away I think because she would throw things I liked away. So I developed a habit of holding on to things. When she got older, she became a hoarder, but an organized clean one.
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Post by sweetpetite325 on Oct 17, 2008 19:05:40 GMT -5
I only know of one person, and that was a good friend of mine. Other than that, everyone else's house seems to be SOOOOO clean and in order. It really makes me wonder what the heck is wrong with me. I can walk into homes where people have very young children and see everything in place. I don't know how they do it, but it makes me feel even worse.
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Post by threeg on Oct 17, 2008 23:49:17 GMT -5
I have seen many many level 2 homes, and some level three, but never saw one as bad as mine used to be. (A level 4.) Squalor is everywhere, in all neighborhoods, all socio-economic levels, and all races and creeds. Just like any issue that affects humanity, squalor invades and seems to multiply with each generation. Some of us came from spotless homes, and some (like me,) inherited Squalorous tendancies from many generations back. I think squalor began with Noah. After all, there were thousands of animals on the ark, and only 3 women to clean the place, ! Definately a level 4. 3g
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Post by skitter on Oct 18, 2008 14:19:38 GMT -5
I was always the messiest person I know. I'm so distractible. I would never leave enough time to put things away and there was always something more interesting or important to do.
I was always embarassed about my messes. My son told me that I imagined other people's homes to be much neater than they really were. However, I only know one person as messy as I am, and she is an amazing cook despite the clutter.
Quick question. You have to have a pet to be level 3 right?
Cheers, skitter
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Post by lookingup on Oct 18, 2008 15:56:59 GMT -5
At least once a week I hear some kind of squalor thing. This week it was co-workers talking about one of their relatives.
Last week it was a house in the next town on the television. Fully engulfed in flames. The firefighters had let it burn after they concluded it was so full of stuff it was actually dangerous for them. The people got out, thank Goodness.
Once a week, at least. It's not just us.
Anne.
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