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Post by gottaproblem on Mar 3, 2014 17:58:26 GMT -5
I am sorry for your loss. Thank you for posting this. It is a good reminder to all of us.
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Joined: January 1970
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Post by Deleted on Mar 3, 2014 18:18:49 GMT -5
I feel like I wrote this!!!!!Wow!!!!!
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Post by dragonfly12 on Mar 3, 2014 21:23:12 GMT -5
Thank you for sharing your story. It's a good lesson, and something about which I think. It's my fear...being hit by a bus tomorrow and having people walk into my apartment as is... I shudder just thinking something like that. I would never want anyone else to have to deal with the mess I have created or walk in unexpectedly and find this mess.
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Post by CourageouslyLion SeeksSerenity on Mar 3, 2014 22:21:18 GMT -5
What shall I leave behind? Not a lot and there are things I want to finish - but - My home would take a few hours to deal with. I have little of any value and what I have is listed on an insurance list which could easily be checked. What I do need to do is to update my financial records, will, notes on bank accounts, passwords for websites so that people can be told I'm not here etc. I did all this before I went away for two months eighteen months ago. Also write letters to some friends. Where I am going is a little more dangerous than it was but reasonably safe and at nearly seventy I have a good record for avoiding trouble. Well actually I've a good record for getting out of trouble which I was foolish enough to get into in the first place. , I'm planning on you living for a long long time to come. But someday, in the far future, when your time comes, I shall be aware that you overcame debting and squaloring, but my memories will not be of what you overcame. Instead my memories will be that you used your experience of overcoming challenges as impetus for inspiring others -- and that this is an example of your inner Spirit. For the mostpart, I shall remember you for kindness, wisdom, dry wit, responsibility, charity, friendship, adventure, spirituality, photography, and many other wonderful traits. That is your legacy. *That* is the kind of intangible legacy that disorganizeddragon is challenging us to cultivate as something to leave behind. *That* is the kind of thing we want to be remembered for. If the stuff/mess is gone, then our loved ones will remember us as who we are --with our gifts and talents and kindnesses, and they won't have those fond memories clouded by having to deal with our mess we left behind. |
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Post by catcat on Mar 4, 2014 0:24:53 GMT -5
Dear d.d.----I am sorry that you lost your uncle & even sorrier for what you were put through, especially when he had children. I understand that they didn't see him anymore & lived far away. You have shown what you are made of---What a kind, responsible thing you did to take over & see to it that your uncle was buried properly, etc. etc. You are a giver, not a taker. To undertake all that driving & looking for papers, to do that searching in a house with even animal waste in it---Wow ! You are a truly good person.
Knowing that your unselfish ways or the telling of what you did was not the real point of your post, at all, I am impressed with the message you have given us. I also am trying to clean out for the same reason. I don't really hoard
but am guilty of just hanging on to things forever, from my childhood onwards. Lately , I have been taking a deep breath,
& pitching out things from the "young me" rather relentlessly. I could never do that before last year, but I still have a long way to go. It isn't trash or animal waste--It is a bunch of little treasures--in my eyes only--from years ago.
I could make excuses--like I was too tired after working before retirement, or that my caregiving years for DH sapped me--& they did--but I know I could have done better since those events. I .just.didn't.
You have written a valuable post & it spurs me on to do even more. Thank you. Heaven knows how many people you will help by sharing your story. I also would like to be remembered in a good way---That I love animals, especially cats, that I have tried to be generous, etc. etc. & for my quirky side too---that I was born with no sense of direction !--unlike you who knows all the shortcuts.
Betcha that tomorrow, be the good Lord willing, I will clean out more than I would have before reading your great post !
Love, catcat
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Post by saffron on Mar 4, 2014 2:11:39 GMT -5
My deepest condolences on the passing of your uncle.  What a well-written and thought-provoking post! It will spur me on to complete this journey of purging, organizing, cleaning, and simplifying my life I began several years ago. |
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Post by disorganizeddragon on Mar 5, 2014 0:13:11 GMT -5
Thank you to everyone for their kind comments, condolences, and early birthday wishes. I appreciate them all.  As I said in the original post, I started this thread because this is a subject we rarely talk about, but we probably should. It's hardly a fun topic--who really wants to discuss their own mortality? It's very scary, and like most scary things, it's just easier to push those thoughts away and focus on something else. But what I've seen--and felt--over the past few weeks forced me to think about things I never wanted to think about at all. I also said some things I never thought I'd say and I thought if I shared those experiences on the board, it might help someone else as well. Two of my uncle's children did show up for his burial and stayed on for a few days afterward while people were once again attempting to clean the house. Even though they had every right to be there, I really wish they hadn't stayed. Their presence turned what was an already difficult time into a distressing situation an entire team of therapists would've been hard-pressed to deal with. The problems started immediately. Even though they had some idea about the condition of the house, neither of them was prepared for how bad it really was. My uncle's son was livid; after he saw it, any attempts he'd made to be civil to my aunt went straight out the window. His daughter, who'd often pleaded with her father to come live with her family after he became ill, was distraught. I often saw her just standing in the middle of different rooms as people worked around her, tears running down her face. At one point, I asked her if she needed to talk, but she just shook her head and said, "He's dead--it doesn't matter now. I feel p*ssed off and guilty and sad all at the same time and I hate it. I wish I'd never come. I should've just stayed home." She walked away and I just stood there, wanting to throw up. It was heartbreaking that one of the children my uncle loved so dearly was now sorry she had made the trip to bury him, all because of the condition of his home. When his children reasonably asked for some of their father's possessions, my aunt immediately refused. For instance, my uncle's son loves to grow things, just like his dad; in fact, he's won multiple awards for his gardens, particularly his roses. He asked my aunt for a few--not all--of my uncle's specialized or antique gardening tools, things my aunt will never use again. (Like me, she couldn't grow a weed in the middle of the jungle.  ). My aunt wouldn't hear of it. The two of them had a huge fight, and then I did something I still can't believe I did--I blew up. I completely flipped out. I screamed at her. "What is wrong with you?! You will never, ever use any of that stuff! It will sit in that shed and grow green mold, just like the rest of the rubbish in this house! Are you the most selfish person on the planet?! Give him the freaking tools! You have got to get rid of all this crap! This is no way to live! I don't want to have to do this again when you die!" After I left to calm down, I sat in my car, banging my head against the steering wheel, and wondered what just happened. For crying out loud, I'm a hoarder. No one on earth should understand this behavior better than I do. She wasn't being willfully selfish--it's the disease, addiction, condition, whatever you want to call it, that compels her to hang on when she should let go. I know this; I fight the exact same battle every day. How could I yell at her about holding on to things she doesn't need and will never use when my home is full of the same kind of junk? And if I, a self-confessed hoarder, someone who understands why people do this, could be so angry about dealing with a situation like this, how mad and upset would someone without this illness be? What must they think when they're left to deal with this kind of chaos? I am scheduled to have major surgery at the end of April, so all of this really hit me where I live, so to speak. What if something goes wrong? Do I want my friends and coworkers from the Nerd Nook to be stuck helping my roommate haul away boxes of useless crap? Or do I want them to be able sit back and enjoy beverages from my classy collection of coffee cups, laughing about the time we waged war on the marketing department after they insulted our geekiness by changing all their files into Latin and replacing the swimsuit models on their desktops with pics of disapproving nuns? There are many good, kind, and thoughtful people on this board, and even though I may not know all of you personally in the real world, it bothers me to think that anyone would think less of any of us because of the stuff we leave behind. All of us are so much more than our stuff. We are people from all over the world, from all walks of life, of all ages, from every profession, with all types of families and interests and strengths. My hope for all of us is when our time does come, we will not be remembered for the things we left in a house, but for the impression we made in people's hearts. |
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Post by notsomessyshell on Mar 5, 2014 2:21:02 GMT -5
Thank you dear dragon for writing this out. I know I have thought it, as have most of us. Your eloquent words are much more, though. I am so sorry for your loss. I had a dear uncle pass not too long ago. I don't know if I could have done what you did! Amazing woman you are. I needed this right now. I logged in tonight because I can't sleep due to a cold/flu bug. Reading this has given me an insight and a way to possibly reach DH. Our oldest is livid with him for the relapse. I need him to read this, too. I need DH to see that the stuff is harmful. His son needs to have happy memories. He needs to see that the things are not him. I would not want my children to deal with "stuff" at a terrible time for them. Thank you for reminding me how I wanted to live more simply when we moved here. Thank you for helping me deal with the loss of my income. That money was just used for "stuff". My family time is more than stuff. Cooking dinner is more than stuff. Having the time to clean and cook is so much more than stuff. I have tears in my eyes. Right words at the right time.
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Post by saffron on Mar 5, 2014 2:33:43 GMT -5
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Post by puppybox on Mar 6, 2014 1:58:13 GMT -5
Sometimes screaming at people is ok. She may have a disease but some of us choose to fight it. Or if we can't fight it we at least wish we could. We admit we should, somehow, even if we feel we can't. Addiction and this type of disease hurt other people, they destroy other people's lives, not only our own, sometimes. So to not even consider alternatives IS selfish, disease notwithstanding. Screaming may be what is needed to penetrate the fog of the disease. Anyway, whether it is her fault or not, your feelings are real, the consequence of the situation she is partially responsible for, and it is natural for her to bear the consequences of her actions, unless she has given up her right to live as an autonomous adult. It's what she can do for you, what she can give you, even if she can't challenge her hoarding at all; she can accept and forgive you your outburst.
I hope this response wasn't out of order, disorganiseddragon. I know you weren't looking for anyone to comment on whether this or that behaviour was ok.
Thankyou for your posts.
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Post by disorganizeddragon on Mar 6, 2014 4:18:32 GMT -5
puppybox, your response is not out-of-order at all. When I decided to write about my reaction to the fight between my aunt and my uncle's son, I was fully prepared to hear anything from "We understand why you lost your temper" to "What is wrong with you?" I knew admitting what I'd done wouldn't cast me in a very good light, but I still needed to do it because it illustrated my point: The stuff we leave behind will affect the people we leave behind, and in turn, their memories of us. I was honestly shocked at my reaction. I thought because I myself had a home full of clutter I was struggling to get rid of, I would be completely understanding about the condition of my aunt and uncle's house and her inability to let things go. But even I had my breaking point and found that my fond memories of my uncle were slowly being replaced by resentment about the mess I had to deal with. My uncle never thought the mess would last longer than he did, but he eventually became too ill to do anything about it. My aunt, who is still capable of keeping the house clean once it's been cleared out, also thinks the mess will somehow miraculously be gone before she is, but doesn't seem to grasp the fact she'll have to get rid of all the trash and unneeded stuff for that to happen. My uncle had all the good intentions in the world when it came to cleaning everything up, and my aunt still does, but intentions alone won't get it done--you have to actually be willing to clean and let things go. I know no one wants to think about things like this, but if we care about the people we will one day leave behind, we have to not only think about it, but do something about it. If we truly love them, they deserve no less. I truly do appreciate everyone's supportive comments and if this thread has been helpful to you or anyone you care about, I'm glad.
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Post by lucie on Mar 6, 2014 6:07:46 GMT -5
disorganizeddragon, do not be shocked by your reaction, I would have reacted as you did and I think this sort of reaction is healthy for our wel being 
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Post by sparkle on Mar 6, 2014 22:18:48 GMT -5
Or do I want them to be able sit back and enjoy beverages from my classy collection of coffee cups, laughing about the time we waged war on the marketing department after they insulted our geekiness by changing all their files into Latin and replacing the swimsuit models on their desktops with pics of disapproving nuns? That's hilarious. I want that for you, too. I am so sorry you've had to go through this awful experience but again thank you for sharing it with us because it has made a huge impact on many of us, very much so for me. My heart breaks at the thought of you being at the point of losing it but it may take something like that to get through to your aunt. I know it took a toll on you, though, and for that I'm sad. What hasn't been said here and also needs to be considered is that it gets harder physically with each passing year and when you get to be my age it is exponentially more difficult. Plus, you've had more time to collect so you have more possessions. You didn't say, but I'm guessing this was your uncle's second wife? |
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Post by kaylin on Mar 7, 2014 3:23:56 GMT -5
puppybox, your response is not out-of-order at all. When I decided to write about my reaction to the fight between my aunt and my uncle's son, I was fully prepared to hear anything from "We understand why you lost your temper" to "What is wrong with you?" I knew admitting what I'd done wouldn't cast me in a very good light, but I still needed to do it because it illustrated my point: The stuff we leave behind will affect the people we leave behind, and in turn, their memories of us. I was honestly shocked at my reaction. I thought because I myself had a home full of clutter I was struggling to get rid of, I would be completely understanding about the condition of my aunt and uncle's house and her inability to let things go. But even I had my breaking point and found that my fond memories of my uncle were slowly being replaced by resentment about the mess I had to deal with. My uncle never thought the mess would last longer than he did, but he eventually became too ill to do anything about it. My aunt, who is still capable of keeping the house clean once it's been cleared out, also thinks the mess will somehow miraculously be gone before she is, but doesn't seem to grasp the fact she'll have to get rid of all the trash and unneeded stuff for that to happen. My uncle had all the good intentions in the world when it came to cleaning everything up, and my aunt still does, but intentions alone won't get it done--you have to actually be willing to clean and let things go. I know no one wants to think about things like this, but if we care about the people we will one day leave behind, we have to not only think about it, but do something about it. If we truly love them, they deserve no less.I truly do appreciate everyone's supportive comments and if this thread has been helpful to you or anyone you care about, I'm glad. About your reaction... I think that is a HEALTHY reaction. We need to be shocked by conditions like that. At various times in our lives, we may not be, but we SHOULD be. Including a hoarding situation that is clean and orderly, but is still hoarding. It may not seem the same because it isn't filthy, but it isn't good for us, or for the people around us. But we become used to what surrounds us, until we don't see it anymore. When we start to see the clutter... It's a sign of recovery. Thank you for your second point. I think that as a community we often avoid this topic, and for valid reasons. It can add pressure and stress to an already hard situation, and people coming here is a sign that they are aware and trying to change. We don't need to add a daily dose of guilt to that. BUT it is good to talk about it sometimes, because it is a valid and needed reminder of one of the many hard truths about hoarding. |
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Post by CourageouslyLion SeeksSerenity on Mar 7, 2014 8:56:02 GMT -5
Pigpen (beloved compassionate founder of squalorsurvivors.com) said that we should be shocked by squalor. That was the point of my opening post of this thread: takeonestepatatime.proboards.com/thread/16214Especially the FIRST HALF of the opening post. (everything above the 'equalities' section). Note: I'm not trying to derail disorganizeddragon's thread here. I don't want to highlight my other thread -- as it contains other topics as well. I'm just saying that Pigpen directly told me that we should always be shocked by squalor. And I'm posting that to reassure Dragonness. Dragoness, your heart and mind are totally in the right place!  |
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