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Post by caffeinatedcat on Feb 9, 2022 10:47:05 GMT -5
Hi all, I'm Nika.
I've been lurking and reading over this forum and the threads here for the past couple of days and figured I could really use this kind of support.
After (in cognito mode, because cookies) googling how I could obliterate some... Wiggly pests in an old pan of "something", I came across a Reddit post that was so accurate I could have written it myself, and someone in the comments linked this forum.
Wow, game changer. Eye opener.
If I read and understand the graphic I found on a thread here correctly, I'm currently in 3rd degree squalor. The word itself makes me nauseated and every part of me wants to scream, "it's just messy! I'm working on it!"
And I have been. I have been "working on it" for years. I have been "trying to do better" for so long, that the taste of those words is as flavourless as water. But "I need to change" is horribly bittersweet right now, because if I don't then nothing else will either.
I suffer heavily from MDD (Major Depressive Disorder), GAD (Generalized Anxiety Disorder), and struggle with my dual diagnosis of ADHD and Asperger's. Inadequate mental healthcare in my area has made it exponentially more difficult to manage my symptoms, but my living conditions have been creating a vicious cycle.
In my home are my husband, six year old son, and three cats.
Husband works in the oilfield on an on-call basis, 24 hours a day, 7 on/3 off. In essence, he's almost never home, and when he is it's to shower and sleep. The problem begins here.
He's a pack-rat. I knew this when we first got together, that he was unable to let go of things he never thinks about, uses, or have any/no sentimental meaning. But where there is no reason to keep them, he finds one, and after a while I grew exhausted from the constant battles.
So, closets were filled with boxes of "stuff", and that's where the chaos started.
-But then, where does the laundry go?
-We need a dresser.
-But there's no space, where should I put my own things?
-We need some shelves.
-While we're buying shelves, don't we need some new clothes for the kiddo?
-But then, where do we put the things we just bought?
-We'll just set them here and I'll get to them in a bit.
-Aren't you hungry?
-Let's buy/make something to eat.
-Yawn, aren't you exhausted too?
-Let's go to sleep.
-But the clothes! Where do we sleep?
-The floor's clean, we'll just put them there.
-And I'll clean up from dinner tomorrow...
...Right after I figure out where the laundry goes.
Never did I think one of my favourite childhood stories would end up describing the snowball and avalanche catastrophe that has become my life.
And I'm sick of it.
I'm sick of being sick, I'm sick of tripping over things, I'm sick of accepting the roaches and gnats as fixtures and features in my home, I'm sick of feeling like there's no way out, and I'm sick of this devastating isolation.
My son deserves better, I deserve better, my husband deserves better, and even my cats deserve better.
So, I've taken the kid to school. I've cleared my work schedule for the day. I'm going to the store with blinders on, straight for the boxes. I'm going to begin by implementing the methods described by CourageouslyLion SeeksSerenity in a "Crisis-Cleaning" thread.
And on my way to the store, I'm calling my husband and telling him exactly what I'm doing. I will be creating a box (or set of) just for his preciouses, and he will have ten days to choose the most impactful things from those boxes to keep. After those ten days, in the trash, on OfferUp, or to Goodwill they go.
Once the overwhelming scatter of clutter and debris has been isolated into more manageable and less anxiety-inducing portions, the actual cleaning begins - with VIGOR.
It may not all be accomplished today, but I've resolved myself: I refuse to let this continue to disrupt our lives (and walkways).
Thank you to everyone who has read this, might read this, or has posted here. You've made this so much easier to face.
I'm also gratefully accepting of tips, tricks, and advice on keeping the momentum and maintenance the results once the initial purge is complete.
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Post by phoenixcat on Feb 9, 2022 11:27:55 GMT -5
 Welcome caffeinatedcat I like your name! My DH is not so much a packrat but someone who literally does not know what to do or want to take the time to find out. He is probably on the ADHD spectrum somewhere - gets very distracted and bored easily. What has worked for us is for me to just assume it is my problem.  . When we sort his clothes - I literally take out all of a particular category (t shirts, shorts, etc.) and hold them up for him to make a decision on and then put the rejects in a bag for donation right away. This works for my DM too. Important for them not to touch it - that creates a "bond" - makes it harder to discard. And, then I'm the one to put the "keepers" away in their proper place. Electronics is "his thing" but I had three bins of discarded electronics that hadn't been used in years. He would NEVER look at them. Finally, just took all the bins and sorted them out on our dining room table. We were able to discard 2.5 bins into e-waste in less than an hour. DH just can't handle the actual work without hands-on help. And, since my DM moved in with us and I've had to downsize her - same thing is true. They need to be hand-holded through the whole process. Once I accepted that I had to be the one to actually do ALL the work except the final decision on go/keep - it actually made life easier. DM and DH will go through stuff as long as 98% of the work is done by me.  . So, I'm just thinking that your husband on his few days off may just be overwhelmed with boxes and boxes of "stuff". If you have it categories - if you go through it with him (also lets you argue a bit with him on why is he keeping something that hasn't seen the light of day since 1999 ), if you have an immediate plan for discard and then GET IT OUT OF THE HOUSE - you might see a bit more success. Maybe drop it at goodwill on your way to a nice family activity so there is some reward as well. I wish you well on your journey - I definitely know what it is like to be the only one that really sees anything to actually do in the house. My DH will follow instructions but actually "seeing" how bad the place looks - that's on me. I will admit in the early days I was resentful that I was the only one that seemed to be doing anything but once I realized how DH and DM actually think and at what level I could control - it has made it much easier. But with that said - I still have tons around here to sort and discard.  You can do it!!  PC
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Post by caffeinatedcat on Feb 9, 2022 13:47:46 GMT -5
Hi PhoenixCat! I like your name too. 😁
And thanks for replying!
Husband is actually ADHD and recently has gotten on new medication to manage the more frustrating parts of how his brain works. It's only been a couple weeks, but we've noticed the biggest difference in how it affects his ability to commit to an objective and power through it.
Unfortunately, he's very close to his side of the family and every time they give him something (either unwanted, as a gift, or to hold onto for them... Indefinitely) he forms an attachment to it instantly, even if he wasn't aware it was in his possession. Grrrr. *>.>
He allows them to use him - and us by association - as a free dumping ground or storage unit.
This is my attempt at forcing him to reassess the "stuff" since he won't attempt it even with hand holding unless there's something at stake. In this case, it's me and our kiddo, and our meager belongings. Even accepting I need to take on the majority of the work on my own doesn't change the fact that I need my partner to help us get through this instead of denying a problem exists in the first place. /Sigh
Thank you for the advice, I'm going to offer to help him go through it all and be the tosser if he needs it, but the "stuff" is absolutely going to shrink by the end of this weekend. If only to get rid of the totes and totes full of... Old corded telephone cables??? WHY?! ಠ_ಠ
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Post by def6 on Feb 9, 2022 16:26:34 GMT -5
Hello and Welcome caffeinatedcat I hear your frustration. We have the same thing going on here with the Having too much stuff and the poor organization... all of which makes it harder to clean and then it takes a marathon to get stuff in order for holidays or having company over. Then you put off having guests over because it is too hard to get ready for them. I just want to encourage you that things can get better. Better self discipline has done wonders in our case. Such as: Limiting Purchases or not trash picking what others put out on the side of the road. These measures limit what comes in so you won't have to trip over it later.  |
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Post by caffeinatedcat on Feb 9, 2022 18:41:37 GMT -5
Thank you, def6! Just a quick report that the dining room and hallway have been condensed and sorted into categorized boxes. The kiddo helped, bless his heart. And all he wanted in exchange were a few of those big packing air bubbles leftover from mailed Christmas gifts. Hehe. Feeling a lot less stress over it already. It's not clean, but it's something. Ah, but I still need to figure out how to organize all the stuff and where to put it, but after throwing out a bunch of things that I couldn't pick a box for, the quantity has gotten much, much smaller than I was expecting. ... Of course, I still have to haul all the garbage to the dumpster. /Sigh. Well, they say you shouldn't skip leg day. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ |
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Post by creativechaos on Feb 10, 2022 8:10:54 GMT -5
That's quite a thread title!
I could have wrote your intro, but in this case the hoarder is me, and no partner would have me, nor would i ask them to!
I'm sorry you have to deal with a packrat husband, caffeinatedcat. I'm a hoarder - i also have had lifelong severe depression, ADHD and GAD too. You have made great progress!
Phoenixcat's post was really helpful to read; I hope something like that can work for you and your dh too. Maybe break it down into simpler categories like clothes, put like with like - hold items from one category of clothes up, up and have him decide. You will have to decide the space and maybe how many of each thing he keeps.
The part about not letting them touch it because touching forms bonds with the items... i could relate to that so much. That is a brilliant observation, phoenixcat. def6 also had some good ideas - like setting boundaries around acquiring... for you it may be helping convince dh that he needs to start saying no to his family's "gifts." Setting boundaries on that. I learned that a lot of others have trouble getting rid or making decisions on their stuff. Once they know you hoard, they dump it on the hoarder so they don't have to decide what to do with it. I am learning to say NO to that! DH can learn this too. i still have issues with pulling "perfectly good useful things" out of dumpsters and free piles, and going to the thrift store. I act as though I will live to be 100 and do all those projects i've hoarded. Packrats with adhd and chronic disorganization do not have good discernment skills on these things! You may have to carry that load and do all the work, but it will give you a feeling of more of a sense of control and completed actions toward your goals.
I feel really sad for you that it has to come to an ultimatum but sometimes that is the only thing that helps people to act. It really does sound like you're at the end of your rope and you mean business. Hopefully, your dh will see this as an act of love and wanting to save your marriage. I hope it goes well and doesn't trigger more hoarding and collecting for your dh. good luck with it all. A book that might help you in dealing with his attachments to 'stuff' is Digging Out. You and your son deserve a clean environment and space to live.
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Post by caffeinatedcat on Feb 10, 2022 10:16:10 GMT -5
Hi creativechaos! Great to meet you. ^_^ What makes it so difficult with my husband is that we are polar opposites when it comes to material goods. I lost everything I'd ever owned in a house fire many years back, so I have very little. What I do have is precious to me, like a few stuffed animals, a couple decorative things, my computer, my drawing tablet, and a total of one shirt from my childhood that I will not part with. Most is replaceable and has little sentimental attachment to it, aside from the shirt. Disposing of useless and "perfectly good" things is relatively easy for me, unless it serves a functional purpose. However, the fact that I have no place to store what little I have due to the abominable mountains of "stuff" is just... Ugh. I do have a terrible habit of never buying things for myself, which DH has been nagging me about for years - but what's the point? It would get peed on, lost, or destroyed anyway. /Sigh But I do almost compulsively buy things for DH and kiddo. I'm really trying to pressure myself into not doing that the next time I go to the store and instead invest solely in shelving, a desk (for me), and a dresser; general storage. DH tried to do what he always does and tell me to make the decisions. But I don't want to just do it for him, I need him to actually lay his own two eyes on the trash bags full of mail that he kept from his dad's old house, for example. (─.─||） Delegating the tasks to me because he wants to continue to be ignorant of the accumulation isn't going to do either of us any favours, especially long term. I don't need him to be able to make the decisions on his own, but I can't keep letting him have an "out of sight, out of mind" mentality either. He likes to read, so I'll recommend he check out that book. If anyone has any recommendations for YouTube videos or other books too, I'll gladly accept! Especially on organizing and storage ideas. Another quick update: my neighbor and only real friend out here offered her support and to come over this weekend to give me a hand when I confessed the state of our home to her. Yes, I absolutely sobbed. (っ˘̩╭╮˘̩)っ |
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Post by caffeinatedcat on Feb 10, 2022 10:29:02 GMT -5
Also, I'm super appreciative of all the feedback and intend to implement aspects that are beneficial to our specific situation and dynamic.
I especially love the idea of deciding on and designating specific spaces.
Just wanted to clarify that I'm not meaning to come off as contrary or argumentative - just frustrated.
The moving pyrex dish was my breaking point. If BOTH of us don't get our acts together and hold ourselves accountable for our own inaction, I don't think we'll be able to live with those consequences.
And if it means hiring someone to help us keep up with keeping the home once it's in better shape, so be it. But the mess has to go. ┐( ˘_˘)┌
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Post by phoenixcat on Feb 10, 2022 11:49:14 GMT -5
caffeinatedcat Advice around here is like clutter - keep what is useful and discard the rest. While we all have similar challenges - your personal situation and your family dynamic is uniquely yours. . Your plan would not work in my house especially the part about bringing in a friend.  Actually designating space is one of the most useful bits of advice here. Due to the volume of stuff most of us have, if you actually can designate a space such as this is your one drawer for t-shirts, one shelf for coffee cups - then once it overflows - you have to discard for every one you keep. And when in maintenance - that is a reminder to you - things need to be purged because I can no longer close the drawer. My parents also ended up with all the "stuff" - some voluntarily and some given to them because they had the largest home/property. That is a big source of angst in our house right now because of all the previous generations unwillingness to discard - I have a basement full of delayed decisions.  And, a bunch of out of state stuff on another property that is my responsibility as well. It is tiring and frustrating and emotional for all concerned. PC
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Post by creativechaos on Feb 10, 2022 21:05:42 GMT -5
Losing everything you ever owned in a fire is traumatic, caffeinatedcat. I understand and empathize with your situation. agree with you on that he has to help with the decisions. Hoarders avoid decisions. So do packrats. That is not fair to their families and partners. They also have a tendency to mix trash with treasures. Uggggh, for the person having to deal with that! i have lived with vermin and maggots. it is terrible. i may have maggots now, things are so bad in the kitchen. Of course you want cleaner and better living conditions and a desk and space for your few things - and for your son!
i don't see you as contrary or argumentative at all. I see you as someone really trying to make your house a home where you and ds can live a better quality of life. Once you get things in hand, it may rub off some on dh. others here have had that experience; the clutter blindness can go away then and when your hubs sees how nice things are and how much happier you are, he *might* learn by example and want to pitch in with projects or even his own sorting. I say *might*  . t helps to remember that you are doing this for yourself and your sanity. hugs!
Does dh think he has an issue with stuff? trouble with letting go and over-acquiring? Then I probably wouldn't recommend Digging Out for him to read; that's more for the frustrated people who live with hoarders and pack rats. Since I've read almost *all" the books on hoarding and packratting, and on simply having too much stuff, let me think on what he might enjoy reading that wouldn't be too threatening for him  I hope you do make room for you and the few things you want or need. You're right, and very wise to clear out first. phoenixcat is brilliant
- and WOO HOO/WTG on good neighbor coming to help this weekend!All's the better if she is not ADHD! even if your neighbo/friend just heand he has two boxes of them, you'll have a better idea of space and how many would fit, and you can show him the space or give him the number he can keep, such as 10. that will make it easier. i have had some success picking very favorites first to keep. if i work too long on sorting, they all become "favorites." so knowing his decision limits are helpful. Short bursts, lots of breaks at first.
OTOH, if he shows NO sentimentality or attachments to these things, go for it! Once you clear out, you can better decide on designated space. Then the work with dh would be on acquiring. If he is willing to admit he is a packrat, some folks love Don Aslett's books. They are funny, at times a bit snarky, and help one realize how crazy it is to be a packrat and how twisted and self defeating the thinking is around it all; if dh has a sense of humor and likes a "guy" perspective, those books are pretty funny. but i think he has to realize there is a problem. not all packrats do.
papers! They're the worst! especially if he is chronically disorganized and does dumb things like i do, like unconsciously put cash in places like inside a book, then forget all about it. I'm following your journey with interest. adhd meds can work wonders. let's hope they do for dh. If kiddo wants to be involved in helping, even better. you will teach him good habits and how to care for his own things. I'm rooting for you. maybe following your journey will give me some hope that i can do something about the hoard and squalor.
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Post by CourageouslyLion SeeksSerenity on Feb 10, 2022 23:47:12 GMT -5
A book that might help you in dealing with his attachments to 'stuff' is Digging Out. He likes to read, so I'll recommend he check out that book. If anyone has any recommendations for YouTube videos or other books too, I'll gladly accept! The book "Digging Out" is for loved ones of clutterers and hoarders. It explains how to speak with your loved one in a way that doesn't alienate them. It's not about enabling, but it's about addressing things respectfully and in a way that is less triggering for your loved one. Part of the book talks about "harm reduction" which is digging out any dangerous or unhealthy parts of the home first so that the human and animal residents are more safe. (One of our members was a clutterer and she read it to help herself, so I guess that could work, although it's more for you.) Here is a full description of "Digging Out" book with authors, etc: takeonestepatatime.proboards.com/thread/10013There are some more books listed on this thread, mostly for the clutterer/hoarder person to read, and also related topics. takeonestepatatime.proboards.com/thread/13863/reference-books-on-hoarding-squalor
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Post by ohblondie on Feb 11, 2022 8:27:15 GMT -5
Welcome Welcome Welcome!!!!!!! I love your avatar by the way.
I have been a member of these boards for many years. But I never fail to learn something when I read these posts. You have been given the precious gift of wonderful sage advice from so many people.
What I find so helpful here is that no one is judging or directing you what to do.
People are offering up solutions that they found worked for them. And I have found - if it works for someone else - why not give it a try.
You are so motivated to make a change and it sounds like your beautiful kiddo is onboard to. And it sounds like hubby is willing to take some steps. HURRAY!!!
I have realized that I have way too many mugs - and boy it is hard sorting them out. One I used every day and it has an inspirational quote on it. One holds the extra large coffee from the keurig. One is from the rock and roll hall of fame. Never mind the entire shelf of penguin mugs. Oh lord, now I am distracted thinking about mugs and I need to be paying attention to work.
Welcome aboard and you have been given some of the best suggestions!
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Post by Nael_C on Feb 11, 2022 8:32:59 GMT -5
Hello and welcome to the forum caffeinatedcat!  I'm so glad you found us! I'm sure you'll like it here. As far as I am concerned, it has been of great help. Lots of information, food for thought, support, kindness, sharing and encouragement. We need those if are to deal with our "demons", right? What a great decision you took! You certainly don't deserve this, nor does your family. You can do it! Take it slowly, slow wins the race! Crisis cleaning is essential in times, but it's when momentum wears off that you have to persist with baby steps to continue the work ahead. Congratulations for an awesome start to your new self and environment!  |
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Post by caffeinatedcat on Feb 11, 2022 11:08:33 GMT -5
Whoa! I just got a little emotional at the number of replies.
I was going to reply to everything in one message, but it got really long, so apologies in advance for the replies to come. Heh.
I sort of took yesterday off because I had a lot of work to catch up on before the weekend - good thing I work from home!
I did manage to knock out a sizable amount of the... Smellier laundry. Gnats? Poof! Overnight, they went from innumerable to the occasional fly-by.
If anyone's curious, I poured white vinegar down every drain and plugged them all with rags that I also doused in vinegar. I also sprayed some "Zevo Fly, Gnat, and Fruit Fly" spray around the more problematic areas. I also filled some of the more icky dishes with white vinegar, water, and Dawn dish soap.
And since roaches looooove coffee grounds and cat food, I haven't made any coffee (I'm surviving off red bull and willpower at this point) and have taken to feeding and watering the cats in small amounts and on the balcony throughout the day to make sure their dishes are empty as often as possible without making them go hungry.
Haha, take THAT, foul pests! ୧(＾ 〰 ＾)୨
A resource I've sound helpful so far is a woman named KC Davis on TikTok (username: DomesticBlisters). She's a licensed therapist and just generally very kind.
It's helping me view this whole journey differently and the phrase "morally neutral" has quickly become an integral part of my inner vocabulary.
A NEW FOE HAS APPEARED:
Eight-legged demons of the abyss have formed a militia to prevent me from advancing on the Couch Kingdoms.
Their tactics are highly effective against my clinical arachnophobia. (｡ŏ﹏ŏ)
Please. Help. I'm now petrified of reaching my hand into any living room mess or crevice.
Update 2/11/22:
Tackled the entire patio/balcony. Still need to put away the things that don't belong out here, but all of the trash and undesirables have been taken care of - just in time to get a mass email blast from management saying the owner is coming to check out the property and to tidy up the exteriors.
I may be psychic.
One more area in the (literal) bag! (~￣³￣)~
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Post by goldenthreads on Feb 11, 2022 11:41:23 GMT -5
A NEW FOE HAS APPEARED: Eight-legged demons of the abyss have formed a militia to prevent me from advancing on the Couch Kingdoms. Their tactics are highly effective against my clinical arachnophobia. (｡ŏ﹏ŏ) Please. Help. I'm now petrified of reaching my hand into any living room mess or crevice. As a workaround, at least for the sofas, could you keep a hand-held vac or the like handy and poke around and use the vacuum? After that you could use a stick or tongs or something to lift cushions and visually inspect before committing your hands. If your son, husband, and friend don't have this fear, maybe you could ask them to move/remove things for you while you make some decisions about the stuff. (And keep the vacuum handy.)
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