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Post by iguanamamma on Jul 23, 2009 8:18:28 GMT -5
I have recently begun watching this show. I find the inexpernsive cleaning tips helpful but what I bothers me is that they have this huge crew of people come in and clean it all up. I would like to see a homeowner empowered enough to clean it up by themselves.Tell them to get the **** out of their houses and to let them do it. In some ways I feel like the messie is treated paternalistically and in sort of a demeaning manner.Kind of like poor errant children. In some ways cleaning up our messes is taking our power back. I feel like these folks power is kind of taken away somehow.I don't know it just kind of bothers me.
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Post by gettingsomewhere on Jul 23, 2009 8:39:11 GMT -5
i can not watch these shows. makes my heart race just thinking about it.
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Post by serenitynow on Jul 23, 2009 11:58:40 GMT -5
iggy ( can I call you that?) I know what you mean about that show. It often seems to be a showcase for the women's humor. It comes across as too "pat" for me. I loved a BBC show called Life Laundry with Dawna Walters and Mark Somebodyorother. It was more like Clean House without the irritating drama queen hosts. Life Laundry addressed some of the underlying issues but, more importantly, treated the guests as adults. Both emptied the rooms completely and had a yard sale, but Life Laundry showed all the bags and bags of discarded things and followed up with "the crusher"- a large machine that used a circulating arm to grind down the items that the guests had a hard time letting go. They felt enlightened at the end. The music they played in the before and after part was very serene, in my opinion. However, this show often used "the amnesty" technique. Too bad it went off the air. I really looked forward to it. Sometimes I watch How Clean Is Your House- but mainly for the slapstick humor and the "monster movie" music closeups. Life Laundry lit a fire under me . I watched it not with disgust (or relief!) but with compassion and empathy.
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Post by serenitynow on Jul 23, 2009 12:20:30 GMT -5
oops- I meant "womens' humor. 10 lashes with wet noodle as Ann Landers would say.
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Post by canna on Jul 23, 2009 12:45:44 GMT -5
I loved "The Life Laundry". I have taped a LOT of the episodes (vhs) tapes, yes. I think they had a very good approach to this problem. Lots of different situations. Tears, understanding, surprises, family helping itself, fun, some frustration, confrontations, and some "kick in the butt" by Dawna too. Well done. And, dawna did understand that a LOT of meaning and emotions were tied up in the family things....
I mentioned that I use the "somewhere else" way to deal with clutterboxes. Take that box somewhere else, out of that closet: to a big garage, or outside, to deal with it. I really got my idea from Dawna and Life Laundry, actually! LOVED when they took the entire contents of the house o u t s i d e in a field or in a large garage/auditorim, storeroom for the family to look at, and the reactions when they saw the housefull out there!!!!! Certainly is a great way of looking at it!
I liked the use of the Fleamarket/ carboot sale, and sometimes the auctions. Yep, that crusher. There was some focus on repainting/decorating the homes,which happens of course, but that was not a big part of it.
If there is some way to watch these old episodes on the internet, please watch them.
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Post by clutterfree on Jul 23, 2009 13:12:28 GMT -5
messie is treated paternalistically and in sort of a demeaning manner
I agree. Most of the shows do this, because most people want to see that. Humilitation, shame and embarrassment get ratings. American Idol has proven that with their audition episodes.
I caught a clip of the How Clean ladies on Oprah once (which is a miracle, because I don't like Oprah) and there was a woman on who clearly had serious issues beyond just not cleaning. And the larger rather mannish cleanie woman--Aggie?--just kept trying to be cute by making cutting remarks and shaming her. Oprah actually interrupted her and moved it on at one point.
I even liked what Oprah said at one point about the state of the woman's home. "It is shameful, but I don't think you should carry the shame."
She was calling the state of the home shameful, rather than the woman. It's a subtle difference, but I think there is one. While the "expert" just kept wagging her finger and really trying to shame the poor woman--a woman who was undergoing all kinds of pscyhological treatment from what I remember.
How is that helpful? It wasn't just tough love, either. It was "let me make you feel small in front of an audience to show how big I am." I hate that kind of crap.
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Post by serenitynow on Jul 23, 2009 13:29:42 GMT -5
Hi clutterfree, Is the woman you're talking about named Carol? She posted on Squalor Survivors. Oprah promised to help her but didn't follow through. Carol was a delightful person and very articulate. I wanted to get in touch with her but couldn't find a way.
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Lochmess
New Member
Joined: June 2008
Posts: 55
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Post by Lochmess on Jul 23, 2009 13:41:32 GMT -5
I find the inexpernsive cleaning tips helpful but what I bothers me is that they have this huge crew of people come in and clean it all up. I would like to see a homeowner empowered enough to clean it up by themselves.Tell them to get the **** out of their houses and to let them do it. In some ways I feel like the messie is treated paternalistically and in sort of a demeaning manner.Kind of like poor errant children. In some ways cleaning up our messes is taking our power back. I feel like these folks power is kind of taken away somehow. I doubt that the homeowners in the show dont' want to feel that way. Apart from some embarrassment, they seem very relieved to have the house cleaned, even at their own expenses. They act as if all the process is a humbling experience, yes, in more than a way, and maybe it feels as a sort of "surrendering". But they wouldn't have called in a tv crew in the first place if they weren't ready to emotionally deal with it, I guess.
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Post by missjean on Jul 23, 2009 14:22:37 GMT -5
But they wouldn't have called in a tv crew in the first place if they weren't ready to emotionally deal with it, I guess. Actually, they would. A lot of adults who live in squalor feel like they're worthless and that they deserve any sh** they get when they ask for help. That's why it's so common for us to only ask for help when we're desperate; e.g. eviction or child-custody issues. There are quite a few people who can't handle the emotional abuse of others, but they will put up with it to achieve a goal. It's not just a squaloree issue. Look at young adults who continue to live in an emotionally- or physically-abusive home because the abuse is more familiar than the anxiety of life on their own. Ask them and they'll say they can emotionally "deal with" the situation, but that's only because they don't know the difference between normal and abnormal. In my opinion, the worst house-cleaning shows are the equivalent of a weight-loss show in which the contestants are taken on a month-long hiking trip in which the only food is supplied by the producers of the show. When they've lost the required amount, they're dropped back into their regular lives. What would be more useful would be a long-term show not unlike "The Biggest Loser" in which people are taught through behavior modification. But that wouldn't be the sort of cheap "reality" programming.
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Post by howardsgirlfriend on Jul 23, 2009 14:45:37 GMT -5
While they're not everyone's cup of tea, I love these shows, especially How Clean is Your House? They used to make me really anxious to watch them, but I've watched them so much that I'm desensitized, which is extremely therapeutic to me. I especially like the common themes of embarrassment, shame, forgiveness, interdependance, and transformation.
Some of the main reasons why HCIYH is my favorite:
Since it's a British show, you actually get to see the filth, especially in the bathroom. Nice to know I'm not the only one with real filth. Nothing is too filthy for them to clean Most of the cleaning products are homemade--it's not a product-placement lovefest The homes are usually modest The furnishings are treated respectfully
Kim Woodburn (the tall lady) kind of scares me, too, and yet she helps anyone clean items so filthy that most people would throw them out. Aggie McKenzie is the more petite, gentler of the two
I love them both.
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Post by clutterfree on Jul 23, 2009 15:07:19 GMT -5
Hi clutterfree, Is the woman you're talking about named Carol?
Serenity, I don't remember her name, unfortunately.
The thing I remember is what Oprah said about shame, and that this woman had one room in her house, I think it was the bathroom, with a floor entirely covered in dog poop. They made a huge deal out of how nasty and smelly it was, and the big woman from the show didn't just hint that she thought it was pure nastiness and ***.
And while I'm not one of these people who thinks it's awful to think that *** might pay at least a tiny part in squalor (I know it's a factor for me, along with other things) I think someone who can't bring herself to take her dog outside for weeks or months isn't dealing with a *** issue but a mental health issue.
And while Oprah seemed to get that it wasn't a housekeeping issue, the aggressive British woman seemed completely clueless and just carried on about how gross it all was.
The woman admitted she was ashamed. At the time fo the show, her house was cleaned up and she was working hard at overcoming her problems. But she said she was ashamed, and Oprah said that it was shameful, but that she didn't think that the woman should now carry that shame.
I thougth the whole thing was exploitative for ratings, but I was interested because of my squalor issues. I got the sense that the panel and the audience preferred the story for its gross shock-value.
Incidentally, and edited to add, I really hate that I can't type the word l-a-z-y or l-a-z-i-n-e-s-s here without it being asterisked out. I disliked that at the original board, too. Jesus Christ, I'm not 5 years old. I guess I'm in the minority when it comes to the thought of using that word, and majority (and mods) rule, but I think it's a shame.
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Post by moggyfan on Jul 23, 2009 15:42:05 GMT -5
You know, clutterfree, I'm going to agree with you on this one. I absolutely believe that plain old l-word-ness played a significant role in how I came to let my home get into the state it did, and how long I let it remain in that condition. It's certainly not the WHOLE story, but is is part of it.
I think that *****ing it out is a form of denial, actually.
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Post by CourageouslyLion SeeksSerenity on Jul 23, 2009 16:00:00 GMT -5
- I think it was once explained on Squalor Survivors that you were allowed to use the word L-A-Z-Y but you needed to carefully spell it in a different way. The rationale: You could use the L-word if you really thought it through and were specifically intentional. And if you REALLY wanted that word, then you'd have to go to the trouble to spell it like L-A-Z-Y or L@zy or Layzee, etc. It was made difficult, so as not to carelessly use the L-word to label oneself, when in fact the reason for squalor might be something else. Too many of us beat ourselves up as being layzee, when the cause of squalor might actually be anemia, thyroid deficiency, depression, post-traumatic stress syndrome, -- or having a simple lack of housecleaning skills --, or being an OCD compulsive hoarder. You could say L@zy, but you needed to think before saying it. I might be wrong, but I think that's how someone once explained it to me. I know that sometimes I have the time and the energy to clean, but instead come down with a case of the "I don't wanna's". The "I don't wannas" might be called - in 12-Step parlance: "Self-Will Run Riot"
- "Demand Resistance"
- avoidance caused by fear.
Sometimes, though, for me ... the "I don't wanna's" are simple Layzeeness. But ... then again .... layzeeness might be caused by something else ... such as exhaustion or fear. -
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Post by Script on Jul 23, 2009 16:17:28 GMT -5
I may have mentioned this before. I bought a copy of their book (used). I thought it would be fun to read. I have never seen the show.
I know that if this book had come my way many years ago, I would have been overcome with shame and despair. I am in maintenance now; don't work full time anymore; don't do much cooking or shopping (DH has taken over much of these jobs). I have also had serious and expensive renovation work: making my old house much easier to maintain. And STILL Kim and Aggie made me feel guilty, embarassed, and inferior. "I guess I'm still a l@zy slob....." was my first reaction.
Here is a typical example of their advice. On bathroom towels:
"Change your towels at least twice a week. Don't share towels. Change hand towels daily."
PLEASE! I could not manage this towel routine for DH & I: two older adults. What about families with kids? When I was a kid, we had 6-day-a-week live in household help: we always had to share towels. There were 7 of us living in the place!
Kim & Aggie also show NO INTEREST or understanding of the WHYs of serious clutter or dirt. Plus, they keep ON AND ON that everything takes 'just a moment' or two. That is true: but those MOMENTS add up big time!
Most of the photos show them in fancy clothes; diamond rings; long painted fingernails: this is a JOKE. Real cleaning doesn't get done that way.
Yes, the quick household tips are good; the jokes are funny. But.....this book really bothered me on many levels.
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Post by Meme on Jul 23, 2009 16:39:37 GMT -5
I like the show to just sit down and have a good laugh but as far as helpful re them for me - not so much- For one thing- it seems to be all funny and both host and client seem to be in one big joke and believe me - I was not laughing at some of the messes I had to dig my way out of---------
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