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Post by heretoday on May 10, 2010 15:42:50 GMT -5
thought it was pretty shocking the way her kids got her to go to New York and then cleaned out everything their mother owned. The first things she said when she got back were "where is my Jaguar" and why did you cut down my lemon tree?" And a bit later the daughter says "for the first time mother is living in a clean house and she is totally despondent" so then they start talking about mental illness and how she must go to the hospital and then some assisted living home. They were going to rent the house out to pay for this. Surprising they didn't sell it and then divide the money up amongst themselves but they would probably have to have their mother's signature on the papers unless they had her declared incompetent. Lord save me from my kids ever doing anything like this to me. The emphasis on mental illness was shocking to me, how does it help their mother to dump all her stuff and then talk about mental illness?
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Post by heretoday on May 10, 2010 16:39:51 GMT -5
I have two antique cars here myself that I have been trying to sell on and off - 53 Buick that I drove for years and a 63 T-Bird, am really freaking out after watching that movie. Cleaning up the place like crazy in case that sort of thing ever happens to me. Have had my Buick since 81 and the T-Bird since 90, drove them both for many yrs.
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Post by moggyfan on May 10, 2010 16:40:55 GMT -5
The city government was about to condemn the property. Given the situation, I think those children did the best they knew how.
It was a terribly sad situation for all of them. As I recall, the daughter had to leave home at 13 because there was no room for her amidst the trash in the house.
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Post by heretoday on May 10, 2010 16:54:24 GMT -5
I didn't see the beginning but they managed to do some renovations and rent the place out ok, couldn't have been ready to be condemned - I mean the building itself
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Post by mellowyellow on May 10, 2010 18:47:37 GMT -5
Yes, I researched a bit about this story, and the mother was going to lose the house anyways, unless there was a complete emptying of the contents, and repairs were made. She had already ignored various warnings from the municipality.
The kids did what they thought would fix the problem. I don't think that they were trying to take advantage of their mother in any way. They spent their own money to buy the ticket for her to stay with the daughter, and they spent their own time to clean out the house. The daughter also sacrificed her own personal space/apartment even though the mother slowly started to bring in junk and clutter into the daughter's home too. I wonder if I could be that patient, and I am a hoarder myself.
This was definitely not a situation of someone trying to make money off of the mother. I just got the sense of hopelessness on the part of the children, and of mental illness on the part of the mother.
It's one thing to go through this on your own, but when there are children involved I can only feel pity for these kids whose childhood was lost due to squalor.
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MiSC
Banned
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 1,611 
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Post by MiSC on May 10, 2010 21:30:56 GMT -5
The city government was about to condemn the property. Given the situation, I think those children did the best they knew how. It was a terribly sad situation for all of them. As I recall, the daughter had to leave home at 13 because there was no room for her amidst the trash in the house. I agree. And the daughter implied that she'd had to do some things she didn't want to do in order to feed herself. As far as the mental illness thing goes -- I fully believe that hoarding and squalor are absolutely a mental illness, so I'm not sure what the shock is about. |
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Post by heretoday on May 11, 2010 3:54:07 GMT -5
I thought it would have been more appropriate to have someone like a professional organizer work with her and teach her skills like they do on that new TLC Hoarders rather than tricking her into taking a "vacation" and then dumping all her stuff. I think a big part of my problem is ADHD - I am disorganized and can't make decisions easily, I would love to have someone work with me and teach me skills. The new TLC Hoarders shows that there can be improvement and hope. Everything I have read says that the solution isn't just going in to the house and clearing it all out. There seemed to be a real lack of knowledge of her problems, when the daughter was phoning trying to get her help she said that one place she took her mother would say she was bipolar and then a different place would make some other diagnosis.
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Post by Script on May 11, 2010 6:59:15 GMT -5
i agree with you, a professional organzier would be fab! . vague info dept: someone recently posted a link about a health care professional TEAM (hoarder experts) who worked with a serious hoarder tiny step by tiny step to teach her better habits. I am so sorry, just can't put my finger on the details. BUT THIS I RECALL EXACTLY: the team worked for multiple hours. As Script the [semi-retired] bookkeeper read the long interview-article, the wheels of money and math started turning in my head. And I figured that this treatment would have costed tens of thousands of dollars. I gather that the material was used as part of a research programme/book, so presumably the candidate/patient didn't have to pay. It is very easy to suggest: 'oh, there should be professionals on hand'----but where does the money come from? edited to add: here is the link to the interview: NPR www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=126386317The researchers made 45 visits over 18 months; with long drive to/from. Thread started May 5 by Geranium takeonestepatatime.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=10250 |
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Post by CourageouslyLion SeeksSerenity on May 11, 2010 9:48:25 GMT -5
vague info dept:
someone recently posted a link about a health care professional TEAM (hoarder experts) who worked with a serious hoarder tiny step by tiny step to teach her better habits. I am so sorry, just can't put my finger on the details.
BUT THIS I RECALL EXACTLY: the team worked for multiple hours. As Script the [semi-retired] bookkeeper read the long interview-article, the wheels of money and math started turning in my head. And I figured that this treatment would have costed tens of thousands of dollars. I gather that the material was used as part of a research programme/book, so presumably the candidate/patient didn't have to pay.
It is very easy to suggest: 'oh, there should be professionals on hand'----but where does the money come from?
edited to add:
here is the link to the interview: NPR
www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=126386317
The researchers made 45 visits over 18 months; with long drive to/from.
Thread started May 5 by Geranium
takeonestepatatime.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=10250 That was an interview with Randy Frost and Gail Steketee. They are 2 of the foremost researchers/teachers/authors on hoarding. In addition to being college professors, Frost and Sketetee have made research into hoarding a major life work. Frost and Steketee are the authors of - "Compulsive Hoarding and Acquiring" published 2006;
- "Buried in Treasures" (written with Tolin) published 2007;
- "Stuff: Compulsive Hoarding and the Meaning of Things" published April 2010.
The NPR interview link includes a chapter from Frost & Steketee's new book "Stuff". In the NPR interview page text, there is a chapter from the book "Stuff" ... is Randy Frost telling of his EARLY years of hoarding research. In those days, Randy Frost was doing OCD research at Smith College, where he was (and still is) a professor of psychology. The chapter describes when Frost was doing this research with a student assistant named Tamara Hartl. This would have been circa 1995-1997. Dr. Frost and student Hartl helped a client named "Irene" over a long period of time.Script is correct in that not many people would have the money to HIRE hoarding experts.
There is a thread on the book "Stuff" at the following link -- it would be great if people could post their interviews on this thread: SOS reviews of book "Stuff":takeonestepatatime.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=general&thread=9999
Incidentally, the "student assistant" Tamara Hartl from 15 years ago, now has a practice in California, and has just published a book of her own, "Digging Out", about how a loved one can help a hoarder. There is a thread on the book "Digging Out" at the following link -- it would be great if people could post their interviews on this thread: SOS reviews of book "Digging Out":takeonestepatatime.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=general&thread=10013
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Post by CourageouslyLion SeeksSerenity on May 11, 2010 11:20:28 GMT -5
- Back to "My Mother's Garden"."My Mother's Garden" is a movie directed and produced by a daughter of a hoarder.  You can watch the entire "My Mother's Garden" movie on the MSNBC website:
www.msnbc.msn.com/id/29981109/The filmmaker's mother's home was "cited" by the city and was to be condemned if not cleaned up by the deadline. Her mother had been sleeping in the garden. The filmmaker and her siblings got their mother out of town on a ruse for an extended visit to another city. They did not tell her their real plans. They proceeded to completely empty the home, filling many dumpsters. They had intended to renovate and redecorate the house before their mother returned. However, the mother unexpectedly came home early. The mother Eugenia was devastated and went into a sort of shock. She required lots of mental health treatment. There was an episode of NBC's "The Today Show" that interviewed the filmmaker Cynthia Lester. On the same segment of the "The Today Show" interview, NBC asked Dr. David Tolin to come on. (he is hoarding researcher and co-author of "Buried in Treasures"). Clarifying ... The movie "My Mother's Garden" was independently produced and directed by the hoarder's daughter Cynthia several years ago. There was no doctor/therapist involved.
NBC (MSNBC) decided to air the movie in 2009, so they set up an interview on the "Today Show" ... with the movie's filmmaker Cynthia.
Dr. Tolin was called in by NBC for the Today Show interview, just to get his opinion. But he had nothing to do with the movie. Dr. Tolin told Cynthia Lester that she'd handled things in an unrecommended manner. He did understand that the objective was to save the house from being condemned ... but the approach used was NOT healthy, and that people have rights. The filmmaker Cynthia said she wasn't really aware of any options when she and her siblings did the cleanout and filmed the movie. She now knows more ... and wishes that more cities had information on hoarding readily available. And she hopes her movie raises awareness so that more clinics and info can become available. More from the Today Show: with interviewer Meredith Vieria and filmmaker Cynthia Lester:This would indicate that the mother Eugenia has bi-polar disorder and perhaps that is the mental illness reference? The good news is that the mother Eugenia is now being seen at the compulsive hoarding outpatient center at UCLA. However, the daughter filmmaker Cynthia describes the treatment as "medication management." A description of the UCLA hoarding clinic is here: www.ocfoundation.info/hoarding/treatment/treatment-of-oc-hoarding-in-an-intensive-treatment-program.phpThey start out with six weeks of intensive therapy, 4 hours per day, five days per week. And then transition to regular outpatient appointments. Full text of Today Show interview here: (with video) www.msnbc.msn.com/id/29991182/A different shorter interview with the producer is here: www.msnbc.msn.com/id/29978080/ns/msnbc_tv-documentaries/Official website of the movie -- owned by the movie's producer and hoarders' daughter Cynthia Lester www.mymothersgardenmovie.com/pages/film.htmlOfficial movie trailer: www.mymothersgardenmovie.com/pages/trailer.html- |
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Post by sparkle on May 11, 2010 11:35:51 GMT -5
Wow, lion. Great info. I remember seeing this film when I was just learning about hoarding. I was really impressed with the daughter's compassion and felt the pain of the mother. I know they were doing the best they could with what they understood at the time and they had no choice but to do Something before the authorities stepped in. When you know better you do better, to quote that wealthy woman in Chicago. A lot of people know more now because of this film. I give the filmmaker a big yay plus amnesty for things not being done perfectly.
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Post by disorganizeddragon on May 11, 2010 15:41:50 GMT -5
My Mother's Garden was filmed in 2005, before the housing bubble burst. At that time in California, property values were still astronomically high and people and communities did not look kindly upon or have much patience with anything or anyone that might drive these values down. So it's easy to see why the structural condition of Eugenia Lester's home, in combination with its outer appearance (i.e. junk and trash everywhere), led to the threat of it being condemned by the city.
If the city had followed thru on this action, Eugenia Lester would have been removed from her home, all of her belongings would have been disposed of, and the house would have been torn down, leaving her homeless--with nothing. (When a community condemns your property, they do not care whether or not you have a place to live.) Her children knew they were working against the municipal clock and realizing that time was not on their side, they did they only thing they knew how to do: Remove their mother from her home and clean it up in the hopes that she would not end up on the street.
So no, her children did not do this for their own financial gain; quite the opposite, as shown during the segment when they were fixing up her house in the hopes of renting it out so they could pay for her psychiatric treatment. And yes, there was a better way to handle this, but these kids did not have time or information on their side, since Eugenia Lester had already ignored repeated warnings from the city and the answers on how to deal with hoarding disorders were much more difficult to find in 2005 than they are today.
Eugenia was actually very fortunate. Sadly enough, the children or family members of many hoarders simply write them off and forget about them, so when the state steps in to condemn and take their property, they have no one to turn to and nowhere to go. Eugenia was lucky her children still loved and cared enough about her that they were willing to step in and do all the hard work they did in order to keep her safe.
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Post by moggyfan on May 11, 2010 15:59:21 GMT -5
Amen, dd.
And script is right about the tens of thousands of dollars. Dr. Tolin et al. don't come cheap. Even professional organizers charge between $50 - $150/hour, and I think this woman's case was waaaaaaaaay beyond what an "organizer" could provide.
It's easy to be a Monday-morning quarterback and speculate about what these children coulda-woulda-shoulda done. This was an emergency and they had very few options.
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