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Post by wtfhappened on Aug 6, 2010 16:54:50 GMT -5
I'm going to try and be as coherent as I can be with my mixed feelings in this post but it's hard to put into a concise thought; I think this is kind of related to the ideas expressed in "The Equalities of Squalor" thread; the issue has been bugging me for a couple of weeks now. I have a habit of watching "Hoarders" and "Hoarding" while I work on the clutter around here... Not *all* the time, but when I find myself starting to slow down and make excuses for why I need to hold onto things I can put a recording of the show in and hear folks making the same excuses and the same irrational thought processes that are going through my head at the time... it's kind of a self therapy moment to help clear my head since like most people I can recognize when other people aren't thinking clearly more than I can when it's me  My issue is that I keep having mixed sympathies toward the hoarders and the people having to deal with their stuff. Two examples in particular stand out. The first was in the original "Buried Alive" show with the lady who always wore the exact same clothes and beret on the show and lived in the apartment packed to the ceiling with stuff she had rescued off the streets. She had a visiting home therapist who was attempting to help her with the apartment and during all the time she was being worked with she managed to clear off a coffee cup sized area on one shelf next to where she slept on the floor, and was facing eviction in a couple of weeks. I have a tremendous amount of sympathy for this woman as she clearly had a serious hoarding condition and anxiety issues and seemed to be in total lockdown everytime she tried to better her conditions. *At the same time* I'm feeling a lot of sympathy to her landlord and the people living in the apartments around her for what they are having to deal with. When I was living in apartments and didn't have a roommate my place would get horrid and have bad roach problems, if I hadn't been living in a pretty slummy neighborhood I'm sure the neighbors would have complained and I would have had no one to blame but myself. The second example was "Paul", the grandfather on "Hoarders" who basically had the acre sized junkyard for a front yard. This man seems to be one of the nicest "good ol' boys" with a kind heart and I'm sure I'd like to have a beer with him; he reminds me so much of an uncle of mine in both the way he looks and his junkyard. The only reason my uncle gets away with his piles of junk cars and appliances and scrap and crap is that he lives out in a rural county with very few zoning laws and on hundreds of acres of forest surrounding him to tuck all the junk into with no close neighbors. While my heart goes out to "Paul" because he truly believes he's leaving a legacy for his grandchildren, his neighbors were very vocal about how they felt living next to a junkyard. When I saw the update show where his lawyer managed to avoid a court ordered cleanup on a filing error it made me angry in sympathy for the neighbors who have been forced to live next to a junkyard for *years* now. Is it normal to be torn like this? Anyone else have an issue with feeling badly for both sides and how do you reconcile those feelings? /wtf |
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Post by moggyfan on Aug 6, 2010 17:12:44 GMT -5
Yes. I completely share these same mixed feelings. I say this as someone who lived for many years in a lot of chaos.
I have been a renter all my adult life, but I absolutely do understand the concerns of landlords whose property is being damaged/endangered. I feel for neighbors forced to put up with messes, especially outdoor ones, that create conditions for vermin to breed or that lower property values in the area. I feel for family members, especially children, forced to endure conditions ranging from mildly unpleasant to downright dangerous.
That said, I think most (not all) of the people I saw in the short time I watched 'Hoarders' were mentally ill and not to be held responsible for the plight in which they found themselves. It is too bad that there is not more help available to those whose squalor is deep and dangerous. I am a firm believer in personal freedom and autonomy, but when personal behavior, whether or not it arises from illness, begins to impinge on the rights of others, I think intervention is warranted.
I think it's totally normal to feel this way; I think this discussion in its myriad aspects plays out on this board all the time. I think most of us are well aware of the impact our squalor has (or had) on others.
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Post by messymimi on Aug 6, 2010 19:07:58 GMT -5
Moggy is right. I know this doesn't do any of us any good, I know it is bad for the house, and yet it is so hard to deal with.
Mixed feelings are normal. If it was easy, we wouldn't be here.
messymimi
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Post by bigtimetroubles on Aug 6, 2010 19:26:10 GMT -5
that Paul guy was on the show with our very own MiSC and her Son.....I watched that show....I have to say it is the only time I watched Hoarders...but I just watched the Oprah eppisodes with the bigtime hoarder who had 75tons of junk in her house and 10000 square feet stuff that she wanted to either save or sale I forgot missed which that stuff was...but it was 10000 square feet of junk...she let go of all of it eventually....
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Post by stretch on Aug 6, 2010 20:08:03 GMT -5
I have the same feelings. I generally stay out of threads where people are angry at landlords, because I absolutely see the landlord's side of things. It's *not* our right to trash someone else's property (I've been a renter for years and I've had bad mouse infestations at two previous places, so I include myself here) and get angry when we're forced to clean it up or get out. On the other hand, I completely empathize with being a messy and not knowing where to even begin when it gets to a certain point.
I think seeing both sides is healthy, personally. I means that you are self-aware enough to realize that you have a problem and empathetic enough to see how your problem affects others.
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Post by puppybox on Aug 6, 2010 20:40:56 GMT -5
I think that fact that any of us are on this board means we share these mixed feelings. all of us realise or squalor isn't good, and want to fix it or we wouldn't be here. thus we recognise its a problem and since we can't fix our problem, have tried and failed to force oursellves, sympathise with others who try to make us/ expect us to clean up.
Long before I wanted to change I used to think my STUFF was awesome and I'd just look at it and feel happy. I did'nt want to change, I wanted MORE MORE MORE. I didn't like the bugs once they arrived but i didn't tie them to my stuff. I tied them to leaving food out. but you tend to leave stuff ouy when its hard to walk around and put stuff away.
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Post by cleanchallenged on Aug 6, 2010 23:52:33 GMT -5
I thought I was the only one who has watched hoarders while I cleaned. It was what brought me here! I was watching hoarders online, and it made me want to clean, id watch a little pause and then clean, watch some more pause clean etc etc. Then found this site, because there wasnt any more episodes for me to watch on there.
I'm torn as well, often being able to relate to the stories and also feeling frustration. Like someone above me said, its healthy to be able to see both sides of the issue. Its good to realize its not okay to live like this, and still be able to understand what it is to be like this. If that made any sense.
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MiSC
Banned
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 1,611 
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Post by MiSC on Aug 7, 2010 13:29:13 GMT -5
I'm actually much, much more in the families' corner than in my (our) own. And that goes for other people too. I have so much more sympathy for the families than for my (our) hoarding problems. The old tapes play in my head over and over, and I end up being very judgmental -- and not only about myself. It bleeds over. I'm a hypocrite and I know it. I don't like that because it keeps me from fully supporting the good people on this board, but I don't know how to change it.
It is very possible, however, to encourage and "reward" jobs well done. The praise I dole out for our ta-da's is sincere and heartfelt. (Not for my own ta-da's though. The tapes again.)
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Post by lydia on Aug 7, 2010 14:06:03 GMT -5
Its good to realize its not okay to live like this, and still be able to understand what it is to be like this. If that made any sense. It makes a lot of sense to me cleanchallenged. This is a great discussion. I think there's a lot of realism and honesty from posters on this site and I find it very helpful to know I'm among people who understand what it feels like to be scared to open the door because the house is a mess. (Actually, I'm scared to open the door even when almost everything's OK) We are trying to help each other to improve, to be realistic and to accept responsibility without descending into self-loathing. |
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Post by Meme on Aug 8, 2010 21:44:58 GMT -5
I tend to get torn and while I understand there is mental illness involved that still does not remove accountability -- often there are many issues involved such as anger- pride- bad poor me attitudes and many other negative emotions- - (to be fair we would have to open the prisons up and let out half the prisoners as mental illness is often why or how they committed the crime and I do not want murderers or rapist or thieves roaming my streets))--- even though I know they were and are not well.
It is sad but how do we define help--and how do we give help to someone who refuses to acknowledge that there is a problem---
we/they can go to see some one in the mental health field but they(helpers?) do not come and clean our messes- even on hoarding the organizers or psychologists do not do the cleaning and even worse they don't agree with each other about what is going on and what would be the best to help someone---I really noticed this on the days when they have the hoarding shows on one after the other---the shows might help us to understand but do they really give help to anyone in the situation not on the show..? and do these folks stay with the decluttered life or just go back to where they were originally?
I can be and I am understanding but I still do not want to live besides some one who has a city dump for their yard--
I know that most new neighborhoods have rules about what you can even keep in your yard--no old cars-- appliances-- play houses--extra sheds etc. and even though you buy your house you have the gated rules the town makes you follow and will clean up if owner does not and give them the bill--- color of garage must match house etc. I do find this seems unfair and yet I can see why--we have neighborhood rules where my house is but they are not as severe as the new sections of town... and I hate looking out at my neighbors yard which is mostly trashed all the time with old trucks and appliances and a falling down garage. also sheets are no longer considered appropriate to hang sheets or foil as curtains in our neighborhood and I have to agree---having to look at some windows and yards on my walks that rules are needed
and yet- I also understand the hoarder and how they see things---I know my friend would keep bent rusty nails because they just might need that nail somewhere some day and the point of not being able to straighten it or use it safely never hit home with them and it transfered to big things like fridges and tires and wood and so on
-- and of course that was how twisted my thinking was becoming too and the only blessing was that I never got to the huge piles like the tv folks have--but I did find it hard and impossible to keep things clean and organized--and I was not happy even though I clung to the stuff.
I think boards like here and really only this one is what help awaken me-- a place where we could say what we thought even if it was off the wall and get support and encouragement to bail our selves out and to know that it is possible to get better
---it would be nice to see this board featured on one of those shows---
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