victoriaj
New Member
Joined: July 2008
Posts: 58
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Post by victoriaj on Aug 20, 2010 18:00:14 GMT -5
The good news : I have a new home. I lost the old one around February being evicted for the squalor. I've been staying with my mother which hasn't been easy to say the least. I found a flat through a direct advertisement on the internet and I was a bit worried. The plus was the landlord didn't do so many checks, the downside was I had less assurances. So I didn't count my house until it hatched, er, the key was in my hand. It isn't perfect. It's over a shop and small and somewhat run down. But because of this I save £50 a month, and as I can walk to work I can save as much again on travel costs. Because it's a bit shabby the landlord says I can paint and put things on the wall and anything like that. No problems with a cat. The space is small and a little odd (steps up and down into rooms) but it suits me. No garden but a huge back balcony thing with the roof of the shop below fenced in to make a nice outdoor space. I reckon I saved £200 not going through an agency, and being credit checked etc. As well as getting to do it all myself, no guarantor etc. He just cared that I earned enough and I got my manager to give me a reference which just said I had worked there 5 years - the one thing in life that makes me look stable. So  I ended up having to take the flat a couple of weeks before I wanted to move or losing it, and I'm waiting out the storage notice period. So I get to move slowly and sort everything out. The bad news is how annoying other people can be. My father is just being really judgmental. I asked him to help me - just because I need someone to help put up some of my furniture. I've helped him with the same thing so I don't think I wanted anything unreasonable. I got a lecture about how he would help only on the condition I actually let him help me keep the place tidy... And the other day I had gone to the supermarket for something and I bought on impulse a small set of Tupperware-ish containers. A particularly nice set in bright colours with 3 split boxes that make good lunch boxes. I was really pleased with them and he rolled his eyes and told me I shouldn't be buying them because I don't need them. I left almost all my kitchen stuff when I moved and don't actually own any such containers, and I would have needed to buy some for my kitchen, he could have asked this first. My mother lectures me about how I have to keep it tidy and then keeps trying to fill my house with things I don't need. She offered to buy me this pair of colourful trunks we saw. The set was meant to be used as storage and stacked to be a kind of coffee table. They were not exactly cheap and I did like them a lot, but I thought very carefully and I didn't really need them. I need a big storage/coffee table that will store bedding. So I said thank you but no and she got really offended, and then I got upset. Finally she said she understood and I said to try and cheer her up that I was sure she'd give me something just as nice. She said I was being demanding.... That was while I was still sorting out getting the flat. Yesterday I met her to get dinner and we met outside a shop. She walked out and put a paper bag in my hand and said it was a housewarming present. She'd bought me a giant "tiffin tin" of the kind you'd take food to a picnic in. It's purple and round but not something I will actually use, and pretty much the same as the blue square one she gave me a couple of years back (and knows I still have). As a present I guess it's nice - but as a housewarming present it's .... well, clutter. Then today she went out and she visited this very special forest place. I have been and it's magical. So she brought me a huge stick "for the new house". She looked so pleased about it, but it made me want to cry. What am I meant to do with a huge stick  I have particularly asked her not to buy me stuff that isn't practical. I asked my father too - he gave me a box of chocolates for Christmas and a book for my birthday with a promise of a house warming present when the time came. She just keeps giving me stuff. And trying to give me her old stuff too (but when I asked for something she was going to throw away she lectured me as if I was hoarding when it was something that I particularly wanted and had a use for). It feels like she's doing it deliberately. Victoria J |
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Post by mouseanne on Aug 20, 2010 18:05:59 GMT -5
victoriaj, I am glad you have us to vent to. It sounds totally frustrating and crazy-making.   |
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Post by phoebepj on Aug 20, 2010 18:18:38 GMT -5
What are you supposed to do with the big stick?
Whack her over the head with it!
well not really, but hey the idea is nice!
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Post by messymimi on Aug 20, 2010 18:51:08 GMT -5
Ah, parents. They spend the first 18 years of your life making you crazy, and the remainder of it complaining because you are.
Or, as I also like to say: Family -- you can't live with them, and there aren't enough places to hide the bodies.
Yes, both of the above are a joke, but sometimes they certainly feel real.
I do not think they are doing these things deliberately. They just cannot see how what they are doing is sabotaging you.
Continue to politely and firmly decline what you do not need, and ask for what you do. If they give you things you don't want, get rid of them, no matter how much the items cost. If they complain that you are being demanding or wanting things you do not need, either calmly explain your thinking of why you need the object, or drop the subject.
It is very difficult to work out an adult relationship with our parents, as their default programming is to treat us as children, no matter how old we are. Continue to do what you need to for your own growth, take care of yourself, and maintain your equilibrium when you are around them.
It's the difficulty of raising parents. Good luck!
messymimi
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Post by blossoming on Aug 20, 2010 19:09:44 GMT -5
there is a very real thing where when we (or lots of people with other types of struggles) begin to get better, others find it threatening. it upsets some sort of balance.
maybe they felt better as they could tell themselves that no matter how bad they were, they weren't as bad as us. so, then as we begin to make better chocies and decisions, suddenly they are forced to look at whatever struggle they've been able to hide from in their own lives.
so, suddenly, the race is on to sabotage the person who has begun healing. things need to get back to NORMAL, gosh darnit!
a really good person began doing this to me with her own clutter. she is a neat freak and seemed to suddenly NEED me to take all this stuff. when i would say no and leave it behind, it would iterally sit in the same place for three months each time her remindng me to take it and acting very forlorn. i realized that some neatniks have emotional ties to odd belongings too and use us to save them for them, kind of a cluttering vicariously, i suppose.
i also know that though my dad finally got sober after fifty years of drinking, my mom sabotaged him so that her own alcholism which was "not as bad" did not become more apparent to herself or others. this was really sad to me.
so, yes it's real. yes, they're doing it. no, they won't stop. or hey they might. but i mgiht win a millin dollars, too.
so, just know eveyrone goes through it and KEEP SAYING NO.
becuae no matter how they push and prod and act like you're being mean, it's still ulitmately your fault if you accept it.
good luck and hang in there.
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Post by JoyInAction on Aug 20, 2010 19:47:54 GMT -5
Hi Victoria,
Thought I'd post here, since usually I don't feel I can add value. But maybe my perspective will help just a little.
First, I agree with Mimi - they aren't TRYing to be sabotage you. It's just that you aren't doing things their way. I know it can be annoying to defer to their judgment, but consider doing just that when they're watching - and then do it your way when they aren't.
Sadly, I must assure you that the time may come sooner than you'd think when you will miss having them impose their notions on you, even when you rarely agree with them. So maybe you can lighten up just a little and let them have their say, tell them they are absolutely right, thank them, and then go merrily on your own way. When I consider in hindsight how it was with my folks, it really took very little to make them happy. I wish I hadn't had so much demand resistance in that respect.
Victoria said: I asked him to help me - just because I need someone to help put up some of my furniture. I've helped him with the same thing so I don't think I wanted anything unreasonable. I got a lecture about how he would help only on the condition I actually let him help me keep the place tidy...
Okay, so let him help you. If you let it, it can be a time of bonding for the two of you. It's also possible that he will tire of the chore and go back home. If not, you could ask his advice on where you can store that giant purple tiffin tin so that it doesn't add to the clutter. I'm not suggesting you start a family feud between Mom and Dad, just sayin' . . . In the meantime, he'll help you move your furniture.
Maybe you want to hold off on buying things for the new kitchen until you are moved in, have sorted through the items you have in storage and put everything away that you plan to keep. Then if there's room for new things, get what you need and put it away before he comes over to help you tidy up. If he can't see it, he won't anguish over it. Also, if you buy something you don't have room for, you must must must follow the one-in-one-out rule. Or if you're that tight on space, consider one-in-two-out.
Again, try not to rail against every little thing they say to you. Let some of it roll off your back.
Happy weekend to you,
Joy
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Post by canna on Aug 20, 2010 21:26:25 GMT -5
The big stick.
On my balcony are two big sticks (used to be one big huge stick but cracked in two) that I found when walking a nearby riverwalk area. I saw this big stick next to a little river and brought it home to put on the balcony just lying flat. I have a large water pan there for birds and the sticks are right next to it. Bird purch sticks!
Maybe you could put it on the balcony?
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Post by homesteph on Aug 20, 2010 22:43:32 GMT -5
Oh there is a thread about family sabotage around here somewhere!
I'm so glad you found a place that suits you and is such a good deal. A big stick? I like the porch idea, that's a good one! Depending on the stick, it might make an interesting curtain rod if you need one!
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Post by eagle on Aug 21, 2010 7:41:04 GMT -5
Congratulations on your new home. I think it sounds charming. So conveniently located. Small and cozy. A nice balcony. Permission to paint & decorate as you choose. Truly, it does sound lovely.
Obviously Dad does mean well. Perhaps you can find some comfort in his intentions, if not his methods of communication. Mom may feel less cabable of changing how she relates to you, because she simply has no other experience on which to base the change. Sometimes it is difficult to alter how we interact with people, especially family, because we feel threatened (irrational though that may be) when our long-term patterns are altered.
One thing to remember is that you have had more time to adjust to this change than they have, even though chronologically the external time is the same. Internally you have spent far more time with this change than your parents. It is with you every moment. For them it is only with them when their minds are there, and usually their minds are on their own situations. So they haven't caught up, and you can't expect them to catch up any time soon. It just takes others longer to adjust to our changes. That is a simple fact.
I do like the idea of using the stick as a bird perch. It would work very well for me. But, if you don't like it, or can't come up with something that would work for you, you don't have to keep the stick. Just because your mom gives you something, doesn't mean you have to keep it. Once it is given, you have the right to discard, give away, break & toss (I have done this), donate, sell, return to the store for credit or exchange, 'lose on the bus', etc. Some givers seem to believe there are invisible strings on their gifts, but that is only in their minds, and we can cut those strings if we choose.
Again, I want to say how happy I am for you that you have this wonderful flat. It sounds lovely.
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Post by blossoming on Aug 21, 2010 10:31:57 GMT -5
eagle, i like the idea of cutting invisible strings on gifts. very nice
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Post by puppybox on Aug 21, 2010 12:38:55 GMT -5
I agree they aren't trying to sabotage you, it just feels that way. They see things from their point of view. they want what is best for you but are particularly ungifted at seeing what that might be. my parents are quite similar. though my mom has changed considerably since she had to deal with her mothers stuff for the last 10 years that she was in a nursing home and then finally when she died 2 years ago. its unusual that people change though. your parents won't change, most likely. you should vent to us because we understand, and try to find a practical way of dealing with them. since they won't change unfortunately you will have to. But I think you are already doing that.
Like your mom. with the ridiculous stick. she went to the magical place and wanted you to have a peice of that feeling in your home. she wanted to share that with you. try to focus on that. your mom wants you to have a sanctuary. the stick is symbolic. they way to deal with clumsy attempts like that is like what seeking Joy said above- say thanks, accept it, and then throw it out asap. I bet she won't demand to see it on the mantle in 6 months. it was the giving, the attempt at spreading the feeling of the place, that was important. and its over, now that she gave it to you and you accepted it, so its fine to discard the object, which is just an empty vessel that carried the spirit of the place, symbolically. don't sweat gettin rid of it. its too bad you have to go to the trouble, but you do. you only have 2 parents, after all, not 20, so YOU CAN DO IT. we will help you.
and the tiffin tin. when people are children they give gifts that THEY like, rather than what the other person likes. they can't perceive that other people's feelings are different, or that different feelings are just as valid. some of us grow out of this and some of us don't. keep the purple one for a while but now you are allowed to get rid of the blue one. allow your mother to give you this type of thing but then each time she does, you can get rid of an older one. or two!
your dad with his unhelpful "threats" that come with his help- my dad is so like this. he'll give me money for a birthday gift and tell me what I'm allowed and not allowed to spend it on, in a 3 page letter of instructions. rudely, like 'don't buy anything of category x which is so stupid and useless and you love it because you are pretty much an idiot, but you can't use my money to buy it and if i hear that you did I'll be mad, blah blah blah"
One simply has to pretend one didn't hear or read this stuff.
it may help you to think of your parents as OLD. one has to be nice to old people, right? they sometimes say silly nonsense that would not be acceptable from someone not OLD. like my aunt who still sometimes uses the word NEGRO, for example.
my brother lives a lot closer to my parents than i do. my dad buys crap at boot sales (garage sales) and gives it to him. my brother chucks it all out. sometimes my dad asks if it was helpful, or where it is, and my brother says, oh that was totally useless, i threw it out, ha ha!". the fact that my brother is so matter of fact makes my dad not be mad. I mean, sometimes he's mad, but its easier for any bad feelings to pass if one person simply doesn't have any. you are a lot more sensitive than my brother, but try to copy that attitude. when you ask your mom for something and she lectures you as if you are hoarding, tell her "A simple no would suffice". repeat that phrase to cut them off if they start to say hurtful things.
your dad lectures you when he's helping and you just can't take it? "A simple yes or no would suffice, dad". if he continues lecturing, you say "I'll take that as a no" and LEAVE.
I'm sorry I posted so much but I really feel for you as my parents used to drive me nuts too. still do. its hard.
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Post by missjean on Aug 21, 2010 13:40:51 GMT -5
Congratulations on your new home, Victoria J! I must say that the odd steps sound charming; I grew up in a house that started as a lumberjack shack and was expanded down a hill, so I miss the single-steps from one level to another.  My father is just being really judgmental. (...) I got a lecture about how he would help only on the condition I actually let him help me keep the place tidy... Sounds like a very "dad" thing to say. Perhaps he wants to be useful to you. My own father is of the generation that never says "I love you" but tries to show it by taking care of whomever he loves. I've found that if he complains about something in my house, I explain why it's so and then ask, "What do you suggest we do, Dad?" or "Can you fix it, Dad?" It cuts down on complaints because now he says "Next time I visit, I'll bring some oil for that hinge" or "I'll measure that space and keep my eye out for a cupboard that size". Not to mention, I keep a little To Do list for when he and my mother pop in. My mother lectures me about how I have to keep it tidy and then keeps trying to fill my house with things I don't need. I agree with the others that she doesn't mean to drive you insane. She's just naturally gifted.  Everyone else has given the advice I would have. I would just add one thing: When you have moved in, make a list of things you want and share it with your mother, perhaps when you're out shopping. Emphasize that she needn't buy anything on that list, that you will be saving your money for those items. The beauty of it is that if she feels the impulse to buy you something, you have steered her in the right direction. If she buys you something not to your taste, you can at least use it until you replace it. Or if she buys something completely incompatible with your life, you can point out that you're saving room for Item A or B from your list. As for the stick, I here's another suggestion: If you have room for a big flowerpot, you could use it as a climbing stick for a morning glory or another vine. Personally, I'd love a big stick with branches. I want one to wrap with white lights for my porch. [/quote] |
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lindy
New Member
Joined: August 2010
Posts: 39
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Post by lindy on Aug 21, 2010 13:53:59 GMT -5
Thank you for this thread. It's making me re-think my relationship with my parents and cut them more slack. My parents drive me nuts too. Totally unhelpful.
But they're getting older. Time is limited with them. Thanks for the reminder, those of you who posted.
My father used to be like others described and worse. "You live like a pig in a pig sty. What kind of animal are you?" etc. My mom was always trying to throw stuff out when she came regardless of my feelings about the stuff. Bags and bags went out.
But they no longer visit. He no longer says anything now about the way I live and is in fact rather quiet when I see him. He is 83 years old. It's easier to be with him now but there's also less of him there, if you know what I mean.
I need to visit them more. They refuse to visit me due to the clutter. It was a bit of a standoff but I do see them a few times a year but now I think I should just try to do it more often and try to forget the past.
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Post by def6 on Aug 21, 2010 14:10:17 GMT -5
Hey Victoria J. ,
Sounds like Mom and Dad want to be helpful -they know the problems that you have with keeping things clean-but cannot help specifically. They don't know that the extra kitchen wares won't have a home, ect.
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Post by Rory on Aug 21, 2010 14:31:41 GMT -5
Whatever their motives they are not helping you to recover and desqualler. Saying 'no' can work eventually. My mother dumped a load of her old stuff when I was first married of which the worst was an old vacuum cleaner which she had not used for years and it hardly worked. She brought it up when she visited with Dad. We showed her our new vacumm cleaner and she was angry that we had bought one without consulting her. She should have listened to the priest who married us and during his few words of advice for everyone he suggested that relations might do well to mind their own business and let us get on with things. He was a wise man.
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