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Post by blossoming on Sept 27, 2010 2:34:36 GMT -5
? i was thinking today that most of my friends have seemed to have been some place on the squalor continuum. in some ways this was bad as we didn't challenge each other on this issue. on others it was good as it didn't get me thinking that these mistakes i make had anything to do with my worth as a person. currently, i have three friends who struggle with it. they all acknowledge to varying degrees and call it by various names. one person i see struggle with it most is hard as it feels like i've done what i can do and it is hard to have to watch someone come to some decisions on their own. i only have one friend who does not acknowledge it at all. i have also had friends who were cleanies, but that was more when i was younger and simply didn't care what they thought as much . as i'm back in maintenance mode, i'm wondering what type of person i'll wind up being friends with. will i unconciously stay way from cleanies to keep them from noticing a relapse? will i only be interested in sq'ers to avoid comments on my possible problem areas? will i FINALLY be at a place where i'm not drawn to or avoid people on what their perceived patterns of housekeeping are?
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Post by eagle on Sept 27, 2010 3:36:47 GMT -5
This is such an interesting question, B.
Thinking back. My best friend in high school grew up in a home with goat trails. My other best friends did not.
Throughout my post-high-school years, college and such, I did not have any friends whose houses I entered that looked squalorous. That is not to say none of them were, only that if they were I never saw their homes. I did not invite my friends into my home for many years, so thought nothing of anyone else who did not invite me to theirs.
One friend may have been housekeeping challenged, but I tended to think of it as a home full of kids and pets and a very active family, rather than squalorous. Messy, maybe, but not like mine.
Another friend was also housekeeping challenged, and perhaps could have qualified (within our squalor levels), but I didn't think it was squalor as much as too many toys for the kids that kept her house so messy.
So, yes, I suppose on some level, I have tended to associate more closely with people like me. But I don't find that surprising at all. When I was an active drinker I hung out with active drinkers, in bars and such. When I got sober, I hung out with sober alcoholics. When I worked in a hospital, I hung out with friends I made at the hospital. When I developed some new interest/hobby, I hung out with others with similar interests. I think we kind of gravitate toward what is familiar.
Moving out of the familiar as a way of challenging ourselves is a positive thing, and can really help our growth and development. But for some of us, it isn't 2nd nature, we have to consciously choose and nuture this kind of behavior.
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Post by StuffNoMore on Sept 27, 2010 7:11:00 GMT -5
As a child and adult I was never introduced to squalor or clutter. The closest was my Dad's best friend from the Navy who lived in a "messy" home. It was the one place as a child we had the most fun when we visited.
Mom was a severe cleanie who probably has OCD but it wasn't really heard of back then. At 84 she's still cleaning her place with a routine she won't stray from.
Up until my PTSD hit me a few years ago, my home was much like Mom's, I even took the faucets apart weekly and cleaned them with a tooth brush, windows were washed monthly etc.
As an adult, my friends all had clean and orderly homes. Perhaps some of my friends who never had anyone over didn't, but I never really thought anything of it back then. Not until I went through having a cluttered home did I realize such a thing even existed. How sad to say for someone in her late 50's to say this.
I always and still do take people at face value and never judge how they live, even when I was a super freak cleanie and now that I am back to being my old cleanie self.
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Post by fluffernut - now Jannie on Sept 27, 2010 7:41:09 GMT -5
To answer the question, both. I enjoy visiting with peiople so much I put on blinders when I visit someone in their home. I enjoy conversation and sharing a pot of coffee so much I don't really notice my surroundings.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 27, 2010 9:30:37 GMT -5
This thread made me raise an eyebrow in thought. I would be horrified to know that someone would choose their friendship with me based on whether or not my house is clean. I would just be very cautious about rejecting certain people in life because they do (or do not) have your same habit. Like other posters said, I think people of opposite beliefs and behaviors can help each of us stretch our lives into better-ness.
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Post by dtesposito on Sept 27, 2010 9:48:03 GMT -5
I agree that I would not want to be friends with someone who didn't want to associate with me after they saw my messy place.
I'm not someone who tends to have tons of friends at one time, I usually have a couple of close friends rather than lots of casual friends--probably because I don't like to do most of the things you would do with casual friends--parties, movies, bars.
My two really close friends right now are cleanies--one is an extreme cleanie. Thinking back to close friends I've had in the past, they ranged from cleanie to maybe level 2 squalor. I've never had a friend who was a level 3 or 4, or if I did, it was a casual friend who didn't let me see inside their home so I never knew.
Diane
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Post by gottaproblem on Sept 27, 2010 10:01:58 GMT -5
When my children were young I was friends with a cleanie, I was housekeeping challenged, but not like today. We took turns once a week helping each other with things at each other houses. I did cleaning at her house that she did not enjoy and she just helped with anything that needed doing at my house. She hasn't been in my house in years. I mostly meet people outside of my house.
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MiSC
Banned
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 1,611
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Post by MiSC on Sept 27, 2010 10:03:22 GMT -5
Most are somewhere in between, but a few are real, dyed-in-the-wool cleanies. I don't know of anyone else living like me, but we know how able "we" are to come out about it.
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Post by cleanchallenged on Sept 27, 2010 12:28:38 GMT -5
I've never met a fellow squaloree in RL. But that may just be because I dont know that they are.. Ive had friends at work and stuff that Ive never been to there house and they havent been to mine. Just as they wouldnt expect mine to be a mess I dont expect theres to be either. But who knows? Its a secret we all hold onto so tightly that its hard to know sometimes if you are in the company of a fellow messy person or not.
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Post by mafixit on Sept 27, 2010 12:49:07 GMT -5
All of my friends and relatives are cleanies, in fact they keep immaculate households. All that while working fulltime, sigh.
I don't know why it is so hard for me, but I did have a friend ask me why I don't make my kids help out more. I've figured if I have to ask I might as well do it myself, I have a hard time asking for help, or taking leadership type of roles. So things get done on my own time line.
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Post by moggyfan on Sept 27, 2010 13:24:04 GMT -5
Most everyone I know (with one exception) is an average-to-much- better-than-average housekeeper. Some people are messier than I am & some neater. One person who is very dear to me is a hoarder of sorts. His place is immense, so it's not a problem--yet. Also, the stuff is basically clean and well organized. But, yup, there's really a ton of it. I've tried gently suggesting a thing or two, but I do not think he wants to hear it, and since it's not really doing any harm, I don't push it. It's going to be a bit of a race between his lifespan and filling up the enormous space, . Of course, there are people who are acquaintances whose homes I have never been in...so who knows, really?
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Post by def6 on Sept 27, 2010 15:10:58 GMT -5
All of my friends are cleanies! They are very organized, even with their time , money , children, you name it. I am in awe .
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Post by catcat on Sept 27, 2010 16:38:25 GMT -5
Agree with Eagle---this is an interesting thread. As others have said, I also have not been in all of my friends or co-workers' homes, but as for the ones I have seen---well, a very dear friend, now departed, had a pretty messy home, at least the kitchen & her bedroom. Dining room cluttered too. She was pretty clean though, just messy. Most of my friends are neater , some way neater, than I am, although I ; am working hard to get there. They were probably always neat & didn't have to go thru all this to get there !! My Mother was neat & clean. I am clean , sometimes too clean for my own good, in certain areas. but I have little piles that get forgotten in some rooms & many things that I am getting rid of now in attic & utility room that have been there for years without being used. I am amazed now that I kept them , although I do have trouble parting with some sentimental things. All in all, most friends would get a better mark than I for neatness. catcat
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Post by BetsyMarie on Sept 27, 2010 18:55:31 GMT -5
Most of my friends have always seemed neat. But who knows what's in the closets, . I have seemed quite neat sometimes myself, but am a true hoarder. I had one friend in college who in retrospect was a messie. Stuff all over. One good friend is married to a hoarder. Their house is very clean - she just does it. His large office/domaine is in a separate building on the property, and has goat paths. She KNOWS that if she were to die, the house will fill very quickly. My closest friend is a neatie, but doesnt think she is. She'll often say "I really need to clean the house, it's such a mess...", but it really isn't. What is interesting is one's perspective of one's own neatness. Often people who are quite neat dont think they are if they have one closet or drawer that is in mild disarray. Just like some people think they are fat when they aren't. Recently another friend was telling me when her sister was visiting, sis would go into my friend's kitchen - that friend had already cleaned and thought fine - and sis spend another hour in there cleaning it to another level. Friend is fine with that and humored that their sense of cleanliness is so different.
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Post by jodiboda on Sept 27, 2010 22:20:04 GMT -5
This has definitely been an interesting thread. I've only known one other squaloree, and she and I had a falling out years ago (nothing to do with housekeeping). Everyone else I've known has been somewhere between average and major cleanie. I've always hoped to find another fellow squaloree...someone who would truly understand me. Whenever I have expressed my struggle to anyone (downplayed some, of course), people always say they're sure it's not nearly as bad as I think. *sigh*
I've actually had friends use my house's condition against me in a way. My feelings vascillate between being extremely hurt and thinking I can't really blame them.
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