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Post by Deleted on Apr 17, 2012 16:49:55 GMT -5
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Post by morningglory on Apr 19, 2012 9:01:15 GMT -5
I do have some progress to report--spent another 20 minutes on the drawer. Got it completely emptied and washed out, but still have a little stack of stuff that I took out of it that has to be dealt with.
Mostly, though, I am realizing through this effort that I need to make deeper inroads into my THINKING. I am slowing myself down waaay too much with the manner I am going about the tossing. I am not being AGGRESSIVE enough.
One thing that helped me realize this is that as I had sorted the drawer I had made a little pile of hair things--ponytail bands and a barrette--but when I gave them to my daughter she said, "I don't want those." I realized I had taken the time to pick them out and keep them together for no reason.
Same thing with those teeth. I had them in a pile (they are in little plastic bags with notes about whose they were and when they were lost) and one of my sons said, "Why would anybody keep teeth?!" That was a clue that I didn't need to save them. But I replied, "I don't know. Some people like to keep teeth, I guess. Should I throw them out?" And he said NOT TO, that he wanted me to keep his teeth! Even after all you guys told me it's ok to toss them, I just went ahead and put them into the kids' keepsakes boxes! After all, they were already sorted and set aside!
So even though I begin these projects thinking that I am going to treat everything as trash, I am really not doing that! So the test for me will be dealing with the remaining little pile of junk from the drawer. I will give myself ONE MINUTE to retrieve AND PUT AWAY whatever in that pile really needs to be kept, and the rest is going into donation or trash can. And THAT part has to take less than one minute, as well.
I am not going to do that right this second, as I have a number of other things I am in the midst of doing, but I will do it today (heck, it will only take me two minutes, literally), and I will report back here. That's a commitment I'm making right now.
Then, as I start going through the huge stack on top of the counter (see photos at beginning of thread), I will have to use similar time limits to force quick decisions and more TOSSING.
I want to respond to the individual posts of triumphs in this thread, but suffice it to say that you are all AWESOME and I am thrilled that we are doing this TOGETHER!!
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2012 9:53:26 GMT -5
You seem to have a lot of insight Glory, and you are correct that the faster you can make decisions the quicker you can get out of squalor. To everyone participating in the Aggressive Toss of Spring 2012....I wish you speed, energy, and lots of clear space!!!
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Post by Di on Apr 19, 2012 10:19:40 GMT -5
When I moved, I thought that I tossed out everything that I didn't need/love... however I found that 3 months later I have boxes that I haven't opened (this doesn't count the boxes in storage-- those are my household goods that I will need when I move back into an apt instead of sharing house space) It seems fairly obvious to me that if I haven't even bothered to open the boxes then I don't NEED them as much as I thought I did. I am in the process of slowly opening them and tossing most of what is inside. It's very liberating to divorce one's self from one's junk. I don't really know why I thought I NEEDED so much. I don't have time nor do I have the inclination to deal with it any longer.
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Post by morningglory on Apr 19, 2012 11:14:19 GMT -5
Hurricane wrote:
"I will say that baby stuff seems to be throwing me for a loop. While Baby Hurricane hasn't lost any teeth yet, I can see myself getting really stuck on saving all his teeth. I have to force myself not to keep everything he wears and plays with. I think a keepsake box is a good idea, or maybe ONE plastic bin. I don't need to archive his life, I just need a few special things....but this is proving hard for me."
I feel for you on this, obviously. So I will share what I have learned from hard experience over the 20 years that I have been a mother. You are absolutely right that just keeping some representative items over the years is what will mean most to you and your child.
My kids (the youngest of whom is almost 11) LOVE to take out their keepsake boxes and look over things from their history. They especially like stories they wrote, things written to or about them (by teachers or friends, for example), pictures from important experiences, souvenirs from places they liked to go (brochures from camp or museums, etc.). Right now each one has a plastic box about 10x12 inches, I think. That keeps everything protected and together. I might add another box of the same size for each one, but I don't think I will need more than that.
I eventually learned to let go of their adorable little outfits (a picture of them wearing it may compensate) and blankies and teethers and stuffed animals. I have kept a few special garments (for example, a sweater I knitted myself that each of them wore when they were about 3 years old) and a few small favorite toys. But I have accepted that the VAST majority can either be passed on for some other child to use and enjoy or thrown away.
We only have one girl, so I had saved all her gorgeous frilly little things in a box in the attic. A few years ago a woman I know gave birth to a daughter and only had boy clothes from her sons, so I gave her the entire box. She asked me if I wanted any of it back (seeing that they were such lovely items in such pristine condition), and I felt perfectly fine telling her to just keep them or pass them on however she wished. I felt comfortable that my daughter had gotten the use out of them.
Yet I had to deal with this tendency to want to keep their stuff just the other day with a baby toy I found in that kitchen corner pile. It was special to me because I bought it for my firstborn and he really loved it (until he was about 10 months old). I couldn't believe it was sitting there in my kitchen (considering we haven't had a baby in the house for 10 years). At first I actually felt like saving it, but I had to remind myself that it's not unique or special in and of itself, as an object. I washed it and put it in the donation bag. :-)
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Post by Di on Apr 19, 2012 11:31:17 GMT -5
Baby Stuff: Keep the Best of the Best. My mom kept a box of my heirloom type clothes. I used them for my daughter. I kept a tote with her very special clothes and my baby clothes for my granddaughter. My rules for keeping. 1. must have significant sentimental value. 2. Must not have spots or stains. 3. Must be heirloom type and not "trendy". 4. Must be high quality that will survive storage. Store them in a cardboard box with acid free tissue. The fact that you are "heirlooming" and not just "keeping stuff" will eliminate most of the clothes so that the ones you do keep will be worth saving and worth keeping. You probably won't want to keep the ones made with polyester because it doesn't store well. The brands I tend to keep are Feltman, Carriage boutique, Rosalina, etc. I keep some of the best handmade items, and most of the smocked and embroidered tiny frocks. I limit it to a reasonable size box and when the box is full I either decide I can part with some or I stop saving. I really didn't save anything larger than a size 12 months. But it was lovely seeing my granddaughter come home from the hospital wearing the same tiny gown that both her mother and I wore home. There is a huge difference between a box of clothes and a box of heirlooms.
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Post by morningglory on Apr 19, 2012 12:19:24 GMT -5
Di Dreaming, I appreciate your thoughts and experiences on junk and on baby clothes. I agree that it feels tremendous liberating to divorce oneself from stuff. Getting over hurdles in that direction has left me feeling great. I just, obviously, have many more such hurdles to jump before I am really free of it.
Hurricane, I am messy too. Until a few years ago (participating on the old board of this forum), I simply did not realize I also had some hoarding tendencies. I think I didn't see it because I am not one to acquire things. I never have been very acquisitive. So I just thought I was disorganized and needed to find a way to get myself to get all my stuff put away and keep it put away on a regular basis. That's why I came to "Squalor Survivors"--to deal with my squalor--rather than to a hoarder site, which it never would have crossed my mind to do.
At some point I must have realized that I need to get rid of some things in oder to be able organize, since it didn't seem that I had enough space to store it all and didn't have enough time to take care of it all. But I found, as I started to sort out my squalor, that I really had/have psychological difficulty letting go of things! I had a million excuses why it was necessary or at least important to hang onto as much stuff as possible. You guys know them all--from the basic "it might come in handy some day" to "I might be able to sell it some time when I need money" to "the kids will want this when I'm dead", and on and on.
When I recognized that I have a really hard time getting rid of stuff, I realized that that was the underlying basis for my messiness. If I could really eliminate all the excess, I would have enough time and energy to keep the rest in order (well, maybe with a housekeeper coming in once a week to help!).
So now I cop to being somewhat of a hoarder (though, thankfully, not to the extent of those we see on the TV program, and "with insight", meaning I recognize it and do not rationalize it).
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Post by Di on Apr 19, 2012 12:46:09 GMT -5
I have to admit that I allocate storage space based on quality and value. I saved my daughter's American Girl dolls for her to have for her kids After spending over $100 per doll plus the wardrobes I couldn't see giving them away. I kept the best of the best books for grandchildren. I know that $$ doesn't = love but deciding between an investment toy and a trendy toy made the decisions easier for me.
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Post by morningglory on Apr 19, 2012 13:09:46 GMT -5
Di Dreaming, as long as you have the space and ability to take care of it, I think it makes good sense to invest in what is valuable.
For me it is more "sentimental" things rather than expensive things. It's an emotional issue.
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Post by Sunshine on Apr 19, 2012 16:18:58 GMT -5
MorningGlory, I identify so much with what you said. I'm not a materialistic person at all, but definitely an emotional hoarder (now with some insight). The boxes of stuff just sat all over the house, the treasures and the trash all mixed together, getting ruined by mildew and time. The more I "toss out aggressively", the more genune treasures I am finding and valuing.
I love this thread - thank you all who post here.
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Post by dayeanu on Apr 19, 2012 16:19:00 GMT -5
Di Dreaming, I appreciate your thoughts and experiences on junk and on baby clothes. I agree that it feels tremendous liberating to divorce oneself from stuff. Getting over hurdles in that direction has left me feeling great. I just, obviously, have many more such hurdles to jump before I am really free of it. Hurricane, I am messy too. Until a few years ago (participating on the old board of this forum), I simply did not realize I also had some hoarding tendencies. I think I didn't see it because I am not one to acquire things. I never have been very acquisitive. So I just thought I was disorganized and needed to find a way to get myself to get all my stuff put away and keep it put away on a regular basis. That's why I came to "Squalor Survivors"--to deal with my squalor--rather than to a hoarder site, which it never would have crossed my mind to do.At some point I must have realized that I need to get rid of some things in oder to be able organize, since it didn't seem that I had enough space to store it all and didn't have enough time to take care of it all. But I found, as I started to sort out my squalor, that I really had/have psychological difficulty letting go of things! I had a million excuses why it was necessary or at least important to hang onto as much stuff as possible. You guys know them all--from the basic "it might come in handy some day" to "I might be able to sell it some time when I need money" to "the kids will want this when I'm dead", and on and on. When I recognized that I have a really hard time getting rid of stuff, I realized that that was the underlying basis for my messiness. If I could really eliminate all the excess, I would have enough time and energy to keep the rest in order (well, maybe with a housekeeper coming in once a week to help!). So now I cop to being somewhat of a hoarder (though, thankfully, not to the extent of those we see on the TV program, and "with insight", meaning I recognize it and do not rationalize it). Morning-glory, I, too, never considered myself to be a hoarder, because I have no problem throwing away such items as used cotton balls or tin foil. I don't dumpster dive or rummage through other people's garbage. (Well, ok, I did once. ) I kept reading the definition that said hoarders collect stuff that most other people would consider trash. Much of the stuff I collect would be considered to have value by most people. I thought I was just messy and very disorganized. In fact I did not realize I was a hoarder until I bought the book, Buried in Treasures, read all the chapters and took all the tests. What I realized is that hoarding is a spectrum disorder, just as autism is a spectrum disorder. I can have some, but don't have to have all the symptoms, and the severity of symptoms can vary. You are doing an outstanding job, Morningglory, and I am very proud of you. I do think you are being unnecessarily hard on yourself in trying to declutter very rapidly. I totally understand the desire to get the stuff out of the house, but I don't think you need to keep pushing yourself to work faster and faster. Be gentle with yourself. Don't beat yourself up because you want it to happen faster. Flylady says that if we push ourselves too hard, try to do too much, too fast, we will have burn-out. Warrior Princess Kimmy said that it's important to take your time in working through it, that it's a process you need to go through. Last night I watched this video link that was posted in Private Blogs by our member, Aggrevating Circumstances: The speaker is Gail Steketee, one of the major researchers of hoarding disorders. Hoarding disorders is a relatively new field of research, and the findings are changing over time, as the research continues and they actually work with more hoarders. This video has some of the updated information, which I found very interesting. On the video, there is a discussion about rapid clean-outs. Steketee says something to the effect that (this is not a quote - more sloppy writing on my part) they have found when people desquor too quickly, they will relapse in six months. (That was my interpretation of it.) She said that people need the process of thinking about items and need to develop the skills to make decisions. She emphasized that hoarders have to develop rules about "stuff" that works for them - and that comes only by spending time working through the stuff. There was much, much valuable information in the video, but when I read this morning that you are dissatisfied with the speed of your clean-out, I wanted to share this video with you. You are making great progress, and you are probably working at exactly the speed you need to be working at. Don't be aggravated at yourself for not working faster. You're doing great!
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2012 19:47:21 GMT -5
Hey, thanks everyone for the tips on what vs what not to keep for baby stuff. It's good to know how to keep things in perspective...for example, keeping two teeth for the baby book vs stashing the whole darn set of teeth, or keeping one spoon verses every cute baby spoon I own (I doubt Baby Hurricane will want 20 baby spoons when he grows up)! I like the idea of having a box, and when it fills up you either purge some stuff or you stop collecting. Seems like excellent advice.
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Post by morningglory on Apr 19, 2012 20:22:49 GMT -5
Hurricane, even with my hoarding tendencies I tend to agree with you. I need to get out of this mess ASAP, and I am going to keep pushing until I make that happen!
So, for my report. . .I waited until the end of the day, but I did it. I set my timer and puts things away as quickly as I could. I did have a couple of little cop-out areas--one small pile that I need my husband to decide on, and a few very small items shoved into my desk drawer to be purged when I get to the desk, because I just couldn't figure it out that quickly. Everything else either ready to donate or put away. The drawer now holds only a few normal items. I plan to put a drawer organizer into it in a couple days to keep those items neat. I already have the organizer, salvaged after removing a whole set of silver wear I don't need, that is now in the donation bag!
Speaking of that, I should give myself credit for sorting out the stuff in the cabinet below the drawer, which wasn't included in the "counter" challenge. I am going to be donating a set of silverware and a set of dishes we no longer need. The stuff I AM saving is being put away with similar items elsewhere, and I was even able to throw out one old item from my regular things because it was relaxed by something from that cabinet! So I will ultimately have that entire space available to store things that are currently sitting out in the open. :-)
Now to read the rest of the thread.
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Post by morningglory on Apr 19, 2012 20:37:50 GMT -5
Dayeanu, I so appreciate all of your wisdom, insight, and support. Thank you for sharing that link--I will watch it. And thank you for caring about my wellbeing. In my case, I am not simply tossing without learning during the process. As can be seen by my excruciatingly introspective posts, I am examining my thought process, exploring my sensitivities, and trying to make real changes. Don't worry that I am beating myself up; I am only trying to continue to confront myself and deal with these issues, instead of continuing to let my life and my children's lives be consumed by this squalor. I am just determined to keep going, whatever it takes, including the slow-downs while I whine myself through another pocket of dysfunctional thinking. :-P
Sunshine, you are awesome. I am so glad that this thread is helping us both work through some (internal and external) "things".
My next commitment in the counter challenge is to spend at least 8 minutes (one dayeanu interval) on the counter stuff tomorrow. Fridays are very busy for me, but I don't want to let it slide completely. (Sometimes in the past it did slide completely--off onto the floor.)
My place needs to be semi-presentable by Monday, because the water softener guy is coming to talk to me about rentals. Thank goodness my dear daughter got that front entry and table clear!
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Post by Sunshine on Apr 20, 2012 4:09:33 GMT -5
Like everything, it's about balance, isn't it? If I berate myself about being a "bad" person, it saps my strength and undermines me. If I take a look in the mirror and say, "Girl, you're doing good, but you know you are getting a bit stuck on this thing", then self can ponder and decide whether she thinks that's true. And if she agrees, she can move her butt and fix it. It's like.... I can be kind to myself, but I can't enable myself. Just like I would treat a really dear friend. I hope that makes sense! I suspect that the relapses occur more often when someone is (or feels that they are) forced into change, and feels that they have had they power taken away. To me, agressively tossing is wonderfully empowering. It's the feeling that I am choosing, I am in control of the stuff, and I want better than this. Please know that I'm only talking about how I feel, and not saying how anyone else should feel or think. Diversity is a wonderful thing, and we all find the answers that work best for us.
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