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Post by Ally on Jul 21, 2012 6:29:25 GMT -5
This is long, don't feel obligated to read/respond. I've been really struggling with Chapter 4 and have felt stuck. She seems to be saying that one needs to get to the root of the problem to be able to successfully dig out. One needs to look back and analyze the reason for the clutter before moving forward. She gives several examples, but none really seem to resonate with me. I've been thinking about that this week, and decided that I'll make some notes as I read, then I would push forward and start working on the "S" and "H" steps, no matter whether I'd found the "right" answers or not. I ended up writing more than 2 pages. I wasn't able to wrap it up into a tidy 'Here's the reason why, and here's what I need to do' statement. It is rather a combination of influences from my childhood right on up through adulthood. 1. My marriage. I really don't want to go into to much detail, but as a result of some things that happened, I suspect that there are are elements of demand resistance. There were also times in the past that I went out shopping to escape whatever was going on. 2. My childhood/parents. Mom and Dad are both loving people. They are both very generous and extremely frugal at the same time. We were raised to not be wasteful. Mom washes and reuses zip-lock bags. We as kids rarely got new clothes. We wore hand-me-downs, which I guess I resented. Maybe that's why I like crave/ (am addicted to) textiles. I did sew some of my own clothes way back then. As I've gotten older, I've notice that Mom hoards papers not newspapers, but newsletters and catalogs and other print material. She also seems to have a habit of buying cheap bargain priced kitchen gadgets. Both parents are be pack-rats, but most of the time I was growing up the house was slightly cluttered, but clean. I know the spare room is now stuffed to the gills, and the living room surfaces, including sofas are covered with piles of papers, and there are probably about 15 boxes full of paper in the area where my mom sits. Mom churns through these papers for hours a day. 3. My personality. I tend to have a perfectionistic streak, and can be rather indecisive, due to not wanting to make the "wrong" decision. I tend to be frugal, like my parents. I don't want to throw out anything that is potentially useful. What if I get rid of it this week, and need it next week? I'd be very upset with myself for making a bad decision. For the longest time I thought I could organize all of this stuff, but stuff has overtaken every room of this house. There is not enough space to keep everything in an organized fashion and that needs to change. 4. My Mood/Energy Level: I have had periods of depression (undiagnosed). In hind-sight I can see that these were hormonally driven. The teen years were hell and that is when the clutter/messiness started. Twenty years ago I struggled with post-partum depression, then had a miscarriage and a very difficult time in my marriage. Then I worked a really wonky schedule where I worked nights, and lived my life in a fog, never feeling well rested, never feeling fully awake and alive. Things really spun out of control during those years. Treasure Guidelines, This still needs some work and will evolve. Photos Financial records Family records. (There are 2 small books written about the family history, I don't know where they are, but I want to keep them. Items that have a planned use. We are in the midst, of renovating a bathroom. Items needed to complete that job are keepers. Thoughts to keep in mind: Does it have practical value? Do I have specific plans to use it? Would I miss it enough to replace it if it were damaged? stolen? Would keeping it help me achieve my goal of an uncluttered house? Does it fit with my theme?
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Post by angelinahedgehog on Jul 21, 2012 9:14:45 GMT -5
I've been really struggling with Chapter 4 and have felt stuck. She seems to be saying that one needs to get to the root of the problem to be able to successfully dig out. One needs to look back and analyze the reason for the clutter before moving forward. I have a slightly different take on that. I think you can make progress without knowing the root of the problem, but if the clutter/stagnant area was in response to a need or desire, and you get rid of the clutter/stagnant stuff without addressing the underlying issue, you'll likely end up addressing the need/desire in the same way you did before - with the things or commitments or habits that you are trying to get rid of. There may not be a clear cut-and-dried "before X, I didn't do this, and after X, I did, and that was because X meant that I needed/wanted Y". But there may be something or several somethings. And that's what to look at. Some of this is trial and error, but everything that's in your home is there for a reason. (Actually, I think in the early form of the Julie Morgenstern boards, Pigpen suggested that Kimmy thank each item as she got rid of it. Because one way or another, each item served a purpose, even if that purpose is long forgotten.) I see Julie's discussion there as a way to stave off the "back up a dumpster and throw everything in" thinking that seems to accommodate purges of this sort. And as way to minimize relapses. If you shop as an escape, then addressing your need to escape may help you convert it to something less stuff-producing. Silly example: I found myself with a desire to hoard food at one point. So I started asking: How much did I want? Would I be okay with giving food away if I didn't need it? I finally reached an understanding with myself and went looking for a food pantry. My rule was that I could buy as much as I wanted, but it had to be stuff that I would actually *eat*, and if I hadn't eaten it in 6 months, it went to the food pantry. Win-win.
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Post by Ally on Jul 21, 2012 9:37:41 GMT -5
AH, I am very anxious / fearful about starting this process. I'm not sure if it's because I think I will start and "fail", so I'd rather not start... or... that I am afraid of the feelings, the greiving, that will be involoved in the process. Maybe it's both. But I have committed myself to choose and area. (I have it narrowed down to 3 areas.) I plan to work in one of these areas for an hour today. I plan to start in about 45 minutes. Ally
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Post by angelinahedgehog on Jul 21, 2012 10:06:45 GMT -5
Fear is a tough one. I don't know what your three areas are, but if you can, start with the area that will produce the biggest amount of space with the least stress - it'll be an easy win (relatively easy, at least), it'll give you some room to breathe and think, and it'll be a success that you can build on.
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Post by Ally on Jul 21, 2012 12:49:06 GMT -5
I started SHED-ing in the hallway. Specifically a box in the hallway, but am expanding it to other items on that side of the hallway as well. It's going okay. I'm not doing it perfectly, but imperfect is better that not doing it at all right? I've been tossing stuff in the trash and a few things in the laundry. I filled a full box of donations, and have a smattering of things I have to decide on yet. DH decided to walk through the hallway which led to a distracting conversation. He didn't quite understand why I could talk to him about my S's and H's and he couldn't talk to me about other unrelated topics. I think that a few things I put in the laundry might be things I might eventually heave, but I wasn't ready to make that decision yet. I'm taking a break now, but will get back to work. I want one side of the hallway cleared from point A to point B.
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Post by angelinahedgehog on Jul 21, 2012 15:08:25 GMT -5
I'm not doing it perfectly, but imperfect is better that not doing it at all right? If you know your treasures, and are keeping those while heaving the rest, then you're probably on your way. "Undecideds" aren't ideal, but... look at them. Are there a lot? Or only a few? Are they all of a certain type? Or are they wide-ranging? Is there a pattern to them? I did some of my paper purging in 15 minute sessions. This was absolutely NOT ideal (IIRC, Julie recommended 2-3 hour sessions in the book, and 4 hour sessions elsewhere), but I knew myself and I knew the stuff I was dealing with. 15 minutes at a time was all I could handle. So that's how I did it. Not "perfect", but still effective - I think I got to an 80% purge rate for that area.
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Post by Ally on Jul 21, 2012 16:05:02 GMT -5
AH, I got started, which was a BIG step! One problem I ran into was that DH, who lately has been a hermit, got up and was doing some work near where I was working, and kept asking me what to do with this and that. While am am glad we was "helping" it was very distracting and I couldn't focus. Now, he's back upstairs watching the Phillies game, so maybe I can go back and finish up. I, like you, do better in working in shorter segments of time. The area I was working is a dumping ground for stuff. Some of the items were things that DD couldn't fit in her suitcase when she was packing to go to Wisconsin for her summer job, and trying to keep her bag weight under 50#. She will be home (in 3 weeks) for a little over a week before she heads back out to college, so I put those things in her room. There was a bag there that had clothes and other items from a recent trip I made... never unpacked. There was a box of stuff. Most of the things in that box were tossed or are being donated, but it had a few of my winter clothes, which I don't feel confident about getting rid of yet. I'd prefer to wait until winter to make those decisions, so I put those items in a plastic bin of winter clothes to be stored until fall. The box also contains a heater which is designed to be installed in a wall. I do plan to keep that and hopefully will install it sometime this fall or winter. We ran the wires for the heaters when we built the house, but were short on money so some of our rooms have no heat... yes we've been living this way for 25 years. I bought the heaters about 10 years ago. One problem is that when DH hung the drywall, he forgot to mark on some of the walls where that wiring is. Yes he has rather severe ADD and would forget his head if it weren't attached. I am keeping some sewing related items. There is at least one more thing I know I should toss. I was just losing my focus and my determination.
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Post by missjean on Jul 22, 2012 15:07:11 GMT -5
I've been really struggling with Chapter 4 and have felt stuck. She seems to be saying that one needs to get to the root of the problem to be able to successfully dig out. One needs to look back and analyze the reason for the clutter before moving forward. I think you can make progress without knowing the root of the problem, but if the clutter/stagnant area was in response to a need or desire, and you get rid of the clutter/stagnant stuff without addressing the underlying issue, you'll likely end up addressing the need/desire in the same way you did before - with the things or commitments or habits that you are trying to get rid of. I am chiming in here (before I post on my Listzilla thread about details). I discovered this weekend that some empty spaces make me feel like I should fill them. Particularly in the kitchen, because I lived hand-to-mouth in early adulthood. I discovered that if I line up the canned food at the very front of the shelf - like grocery stores do as stock is depleted - it makes me feel better. Also, I took Angelina’s suggestion about sticky-notes. I also wrote the main roles that coincided with my vision and posted them in the office (my main entry point). But on a cupboard in the great room (my second entry point), I posted a quite different note: “I am NOT a grand hostess, throwing parties and cooking for dozens and entertaining a houseful." Even yesterday while picking up necessary hardware, I was looking at summer-print serving plates and the like, as if I'd ever have a crowd of people over. I wish I could, but I live (as far as friends/family are concerned) in an unsophisticated backwater. My longing for company and my past (when I really did have 18 people packed in my apartment) aren't compatible with my vision for living life now.
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Post by angelinahedgehog on Jul 22, 2012 17:17:47 GMT -5
Ally, it sounds like you were making progress. And stopping when you lose your focus and determination is a good idea. I'm okay forcing things a bit in the beginning of a session, but towards the end of it, not so much. That's usually a sign that I need a break, and possibly a glass of water.
MissJean, excellent trick with the canned goods and with the post-its. (And now I'm wondering how many guest supplies I have that I really can't justify.)
As for me, after I tagged My Collection in LibraryThing, I found myself working on those books here and there. In the past week, I've moved 26 books from the to-do list to the done list, and that includes about 5 where it was a two-step process. At that point, it may be backlogged, but it's not currently stagnant.
So I started looking at other areas. I started with the file cabinet, and purged about 8"/20cm of paper. Then I moved to my cookbook area, and found that I had a printout of the owner's manual for a stove I haven't seen since 2007. That went, along with a few other things. Then I tossed out some magazines from 2010 and 2011, and a few other things, and ended up looking at my other books. I purged about 20% of the books. They're now in bags, waiting for next weekend, when I can get to the library.
I may yet add more books. I mean, I had two copies of the Canterbury Tales. Which I have NOT read in its entirety. So one went into the bag, and one is on the shelf, but really?
The Canterbury Tales is on Project Gutenberg.
I checked.
Likely a lot of the other oughta-read classics are on Project Gutenberg too. I prefer to read paper, but electronic works well enough for some things... This may be the thing that tips me into getting a Kindle.
I may yet add more books to the giveaway bags. Even so, a 20% purge opens up some breathing room. And my shelves don't look crowded.
As I was going through receipts from 2010, I found one that included Toy Story 3. I think I know what I'll be doing for entertainment this evening!
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Post by Ally on Jul 22, 2012 17:45:42 GMT -5
Today I purged 3 large bags of DD's clothes that she had decided she wanted to get rid of at least of year ago. (I did go through them and found 2 things of mine that I think had ended up in her room when she was sorting things out.) The bags are out in my car. These things were near the area I was working yesterday, as if the urge to purge was expanding to a larger area. I'm hoping that this tendency continues. I really had very little attachment, which made it easy. I'm not sure why they didn't make it out to my car to get rid of in the past???
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Post by angelinahedgehog on Jul 22, 2012 18:05:53 GMT -5
These things were near the area I was working yesterday, as if the urge to purge was expanding to a larger area. I'm hoping that this tendency continues. It's magical when that happens. It's like the first purge uncovers more incentive and enthusiasm. And you may never know why you didn't get rid of those bags before. The important thing is that you're getting rid of them now. Yay!
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Post by missjean on Jul 23, 2012 11:47:44 GMT -5
Angelina, 20% is great. I had heard of LibraryThing but haven't used. Is it like GoodReads? Ally, I think sometimes we count the boxed or bagged donations as "done." It takes purging to give us enough visual space to see things. I "found" a box of books in the office that should have gone out a year ago.
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Post by angelinahedgehog on Jul 23, 2012 13:01:38 GMT -5
missjean, from the little I can see of GoodReads, it looks similar. GoodReads seems to be more overtly social-media, but LibraryThing has a social aspect, too. I wouldn't be able to tell more without getting a GoodReads account, and at this point... I'm not ready for it. Not when I'm not even sure I remember my anghed login on LibraryThing, and I'm planning on getting rid of some of the books I have listed: www.librarything.com/catalog/anghedI'm quite pleased with the 20%, by the way. It's a far cry from 80%, but I'm not sure I need to do that in this area. It's just... I was looking at a book this morning and realized I had others by that author. I enjoyed them, but I haven't had any desire to reread them in the 10 or 15 years I've had them. So those may yet go into the bag for donation. ETA: I was just reviewing the Points of Entry I listed, and realized that I hadn't mentioned the attachments for the areas I've worked on. The Collection of Books: I suspect unfulfilled need, but now that I have corrected the technical error, the need has a chance of getting fulfilled. So I'm taking this off the list. File cabinets. For the items I purged, there was no attachment aside from avoiding the work. The papers relating to the collection feel less stagnant now that the books feel less stagnant. I'm taking it off the list. Kitchen stuff. Unfulfilled needs, possibly. Once I got rid of the pastry board and one set of the glass bowls and recipes that I clipped 5 years ago and haven't tried yet... Forty pounds of stuff, and one ton of fantasies about being the next Martha/Rachael/Giada. Gone. Funny thing: that area doesn't look (or feel) all that stagnant now. It's too hot to bake, but I do believe I'll be making some apple cake come September. So this is off the list. Non collection books. I'm having a hard time identifying this one, but I can tell that the hardest books for me to give up are the ones I feel I should read, either because they're classics, or because a friend recommended them or (even worse) lent them. It's almost as if I need to prove that I'm well-read. And that having unread books on my shelf for 15 years is okay, because I'm going to read them. Really. Never mind how many other books I've read while not reading that one. (Okay, this sort of breaks down with the Da Vinci Code. Not classic, not recommended, and not worth the hours of my life.)
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Post by hiding on Jul 24, 2012 14:53:52 GMT -5
Folks,
I am having a difficult time trying to follow Julie's plan. I am not saying that I'm going to give up on her book or our discussions. I am saying that I will probably have to considerably stray from her plan to get it to work for me.
I like the theme bit and I think that will help. I like what someone, I think AH, did here by making a list of her treasures and then using that list to compare items to as she sorted.
I don't think, however, that I will able to do a concise "point of entry". I have too much chaotic clutter to pick one spot to work on and then stay on that spot until it's done. I have removed a lot of items from the house by picking things out of every room. The more I do that, the more I can see what stays and what goes.
Also, Dayeanu got me going on doing 8 minutes at a time. Some times that's all I can handle in a day. But 8 minutes is better than no minutes, which was what I was doing previously. Sometimes I can do many 8 minute segments strung together.
I think I am going to do with the SHED book what I learned in AA. "Take what you want/can use and leave the rest."
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Post by angelinahedgehog on Jul 24, 2012 20:19:17 GMT -5
hiding, from what I can tell, SHED was written with the assumption that the person is already fairly well organized - and it isn't enough. If you're dealing with mystery bags that contain old bills and single black socks (been there, done that!) or similar hodgepodges, then you may need to do some level of organizing first. But if you have a theme and a treasures list, it helps a lot.
This isn't a race. It's a journey. And going at the pace that makes sense for you... makes sense to me.
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