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Post by dayeanu on Sept 21, 2014 9:49:13 GMT -5
Well, I moved my bedtime from 12:30 a.m. night before last, to 1:45 a.m. last night.
It's stress and anxiety, I'm guessing.
I was sleepy at 9:15, and could have gone to bed and gone to sleep right then. DGS wasn't home until 10:30, so I waited for him. After that, I was exhausted, but couldn't/wouldn't go to bed.
I have no idea why I do that, unless it is, as I said, just anxiety and stress.
I will try for a more nearly normal bedtime tonight. Although with Mother being so sick, I probably should not worry about sleeping.
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Post by cricket on Sept 21, 2014 13:12:52 GMT -5
dayeanu, I've done the same thing. Been exhausted and just counting down to son's bedtime so I can go to bed, but then all the bustling around doing the evening stuff seems to wake me up, and after he's finally in bed I want some "me time" to unwind, and before I know it, it's 3am. Or husband comes in late right as I'm ready to go to bed, and I get thrown off my plan, end up staying up late even after he's gone to bed. I'm hoping that having a set bedtime that takes other people's schedules and my "me time" need into account will counteract this tendency.
larataylor, I think you are on to something about the power of suggestion. Pam and Peggy ("Slob Sisters"--writers) said, "Set the standard yourself," and that seems to work for me. When I develop a new habit, it takes a while for it to really become permanent, but if I am consistent it doesn't take too long before everyone else in the household just unconsciously gets on board, starts following my example. I don't know if it's a mom thing, or if it works the other way too, and I'm picking up habits from the family as well.
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Post by Arid on Sept 21, 2014 13:37:44 GMT -5
daye: It's been so long ago that I read about it that I can't give you the details, but I remember the article said that there are genuine biochemical reasons why that happens. That is, when we "wake ourselves up" or make ourselves stay awake past that *oh-so-sleepy* stage, there are biochemicals that "kick in;" then, because of them, one can't go to sleep easily later . . . I wish that I could give you more information than this, but I would have to do an on-line search about it first! I just wanted to let you know that a) it really happens; b) it's completely normal; and c) it has nothing to do with stress and anxiety, per se.
Arid
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Post by larataylor on Sept 21, 2014 13:59:28 GMT -5
cricket - it does seem really powerful. Since I've been concentrating on getting the house more uncluttered and clean (it's been good before, but backslid, and now I'm doing deeper decluttering) my family is really getting on board with keeping it this way. No one wants to mess up the perfection! But if I don't lead the way, it doesn't happen. If I'm down and depressed and can't do anything, they just leave stuff all over the place. That's the most difficult thing for me … how I don't get any help when I most need help.
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Post by dayeanu on Sept 21, 2014 23:04:25 GMT -5
daye: It's been so long ago that I read about it that I can't give you the details, but I remember the article said that there are genuine biochemical reasons why that happens. That is, when we "wake ourselves up" or make ourselves stay awake past that *oh-so-sleepy* stage, there are biochemicals that "kick in;" then, because of them, one can't go to sleep easily later . . . I wish that I could give you more information than this, but I would have to do an on-line search about it first! I just wanted to let you know that a) it really happens; b) it's completely normal; and c) it has nothing to do with stress and anxiety, per se. Arid Fascinating! Thank you for posting that, Arid!
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Post by lostchild on Sept 22, 2014 0:58:28 GMT -5
In bed by 10:30 drowsy.Watching weather channel to put me the sleep!
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Post by cricket on Sept 22, 2014 1:00:36 GMT -5
Well, I was in bed at 10:30, and fast asleep when my husband's alarm clock sounded at midnight. His clock is complicated, has multiple alarms that default to 12am, and somehow he accidentally turned one on. This is the second night it's gone off. He took the time to completely disarm it, at my strong suggestion, so hopefully it won't happen tomorrow night. I couldn't fall back asleep. I had plans to do some physically demanding work tomorrow, so this is not ideal. It's 2am now, no idea when I'll be drowsy again.
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Post by larataylor on Sept 22, 2014 3:47:22 GMT -5
cricket - oh, that is such a bummer! What a stupid default setting. I'm glad he fixed that! We have some trouble with each other's phone alarms in this family, too … especially when people are trying to sleep at the "wrong" times. I had a very successful night, though. Yesterday I dug into the boxes of my clothing that were in the storage unit for four years to get a charity donation ready for 8:00 this morning. I also pulled out all the board games and had my family look at them and pick some to keep. DD gave me a big box of stuffed animals (also recently out of storage). Then we went to my sister's for a dinner party because our out-of-state brother was there for one night. I was getting sleepy there, so I just came home and went to bed and right to sleep … it was 10:00 or maybe a little earlier. And I woke up raring to go at 4:00 a.m. This has happened before … I read somewhere that the sleep hours you get before midnight are worth twice as much as the hours after. This certainly seems to be true for me. A while back, I was going to bed at 9:00, and waking up at 4:00 or 5:00 without an alarm. The problem with that schedule was that I would start to fade right before dinner, and I was going to experiment with a short noon nap, but then I trashed the schedule before it got to be a firm habit. Also winding down at 8:00 p.m. knocked out pretty much *all* evening social activities. And DD was becoming more socially active in the evening. However, I wonder if I could incorporate the nap into the schedule and make it more flexible, if I stuck to it longer. I think I'll keep trying to do this, at least until I get a job. Right now I have to finish getting this donation ready. I really wish I had an extra clothing rack and extra hangers. I'm finding some awesome clothes, and one item that I'd been thinking of buying because I really needed one. I would love to hang everything up and choose what I want from it. I will go through the clothes I've been wearing, too, and part with some of those things to make room for different things. It was a little hard to come home and *not* putz around making things perfect, and now I have dirty dishes in the sink! Horrors! But I need to be a bit flexible and concentrate on getting all this stuff out of the house.
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Post by cricket on Sept 22, 2014 20:17:37 GMT -5
Had a low energy day, too tired to do more than a couple of challenges after disrupted sleep last night. I have done all the prep work to go to bed promptly at 10, so wish me luck.
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Post by larataylor on Sept 22, 2014 20:29:19 GMT -5
I did all my going-to-bed stuff that I usually don't think of until I'm actually going to bed. Made a cup of chamomile tea. I want to watch one more episode with DH, but he's helping DD with math, so I may not get to. Ready to dive right in, though.
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Post by dayeanu on Sept 22, 2014 23:26:45 GMT -5
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Post by larataylor on Sept 23, 2014 0:43:22 GMT -5
dayeanu - thanks for the article. I can't sleep tonight. Seems like I have a good night and then a bad night … I can't fall asleep really early *unless* I'm sleep-deprived from the night before. I think I just stayed up a little too late. I really need to make it 9:30 or 10:00. Maybe I should read for an hour in bed with a small light instead of watching TV until the last minute, too.
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Post by cricket on Sept 23, 2014 5:07:23 GMT -5
So sorry you didn't sleep, larataylor. I hope you'll adjust to a regular schedule over time. My greatest help for overcoming sleeplessness has been exercise.
I fell asleep quickly, woke several times during the night, but fell back asleep each time. I'd prefer to sleep straight through, but that wasn't bad. I had a very sedentary day yesterday, might have contributed to wakefulness. I feel a bit achy this morning, but much better than yesterday. Right now, it seems I will sleep if nothing actively prevents it.
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Post by larataylor on Sept 23, 2014 8:36:04 GMT -5
cricket - yes, I intend to keep working at it. I should make sure I get some exercise today, and I want to try turning off electronics at 8:30, and turning off or dimming a lot of the lights. It's hard because that TV-in-the-evening thing is my together time with DH. I should aim to have dinner ready at 6:00--then we can hang out till 8:30. I woke up okay at 7:00 this morning. I will let myself go till 7:00 if I have a bad night, but no later, because keeping the wakeup time steady is really important. I'll just have a slower day today, and keep on trying! I'm glad you're doing well!
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Post by moonglow on Sept 23, 2014 12:27:15 GMT -5
Hi guys, I just need to chime in here a bit.... The article that was linked to previously makes it sound like you can develop Delayed Sleep Phase Syndrome by staying up too late too many nights for too long. I am not sure that is actually the case. I have DSPS and I was told by my sleep doctor that it most often develops in adolescence. Teenagers naturally go to bed later and get up later, but sometime in late adolescence or early adulthood, the system resets to a "normal" sleep schedule, 10 p to 6 a. For some of us, that reset doesn't work properly. People who have normal circadian rhythms can get into a habit of going to bed too late, but then find it relatively easy to switch back to a "normal" sleep schedule. People with DSPS have a great deal of difficulty doing this and maintaining that schedule. Wikipedia has a great article on DSPS at en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delayed_sleep_phase_disorderA few quotes: An adolescent version disappears in adolescence or early adulthood; otherwise DSPD is a lifelong condition. Depending on the severity, the symptoms can be managed to a greater or lesser degree, but there is no all-encompassing cure.
People with DSPD cannot simply force themselves to sleep early. They may toss and turn for hours in bed, and sometimes not sleep at all, before reporting to work or school.
By the time those who have DSPD seek medical help, they usually have tried many times to change their sleeping schedule.
People with normal circadian systems can generally fall asleep quickly at night if they slept too little the night before. Falling asleep earlier will in turn automatically help to advance their circadian clocks due to decreased light exposure in the evening. In contrast, people with DSPD are unable to fall asleep before their usual sleep time, even if they are sleep-deprived. Sleep deprivation does not reset the circadian clock of DSPD patients, as it does with normal people.
A chief difficulty of treating DSPD is in maintaining an earlier schedule after it has been established. Inevitable events of normal life, such as staying up late for a celebration or having to stay in bed with an illness, tend to reset the sleeping schedule to its intrinsic late times.
Long-term success rates of treatment have seldom been evaluated. However, experienced clinicians acknowledge that DSPD is extremely difficult to treat. One study of 61 DSPD patients...was followed up with questionnaires to the subjects a year later. Good effect was seen during the 6-week treatment....Follow-up showed that over 90% had relapsed to pretreatment sleeping patterns within the year, 28.8% reporting that the relapse occurred within one week.(italics mine) All of this matches with what my sleep doctor told me. You can treat DSPS, but success is limited and it is very easy to relapse unless you are strict with maintaining the schedule. This is not true for "normal" people, who can stay up late one or two nights on a weekend and then get back on schedule without much problem. I guess my big point is that I don't want people to feel guilty, or feel like they have "done this to themselves", or believe that they have given themselves a sleep disorder. The cause of DSPS is poorly understood but it appears to have genetic connections. My sleep doctor spent about 45 minutes interviewing me, giving me a diagnosis and explaining it to me. And then he looked me in the eye and said, "You are not l*zy, and you are not undisciplined." The intensity of my relief was a peak experience for me. I left his office and sat in my car and cried. So much of my life, and my struggles, suddenly made sense. Please understand that I am not trying to discourage anyone from working on your goals! Getting a regular sleep routine and schedule is a worthy and excellent goal! One of the best things you can do for your health! But if you are failing repeatedly, please consider seeing a sleep doctor for help.
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