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Post by wind on Dec 15, 2008 23:34:16 GMT -5
I saw this mentioned in another thread, that some here were not the first in their family line to have issues with housekeeping.
My mother's mother was schizophrenic (I never met that granma, as my mom "disowned" her after marrying my dad) but that granma made my mom wash windows and clean the house for hours and hours every day. Basically treated her daughter like slave labor just to be mean. Supposedly, she was a nasty, horrible woman. And deeply mentally ill to boot. (the meanness and the mental illness were separate issues that "worked together" to create a nightmarish childhood for my mom).
My dad was raised filthy rich and always had live-in house keepers growing up.
Well, my dad was a wild child who decided to marry a poor, but very sweet rural girl (my mom)...and together....
Starting around the year 1980 (I was born a few years before that), housework just started not getting done. Ever.
By the time I was 7 the house had the worst roach infestation I've ever seen, everything was just plies and piles of clothes and garbage in every room, there was dog poop crusted and turned white in every room. (anyone ever seen dog poo turn white? Yeah. I saw a lot of that growing up.)
I'd have to tuck my sheet around my whole body and face/head at night AND sleep with the lights on as a kid, to not have roaches crawling over my face as I slept. Ick. And I still remember that creepy scratching sound of masses of roaches coming out to eat papers in my room around 3 AM.
I think this upbringing gave me...umm...extremely low standards...for what's considered "clean". To me, I read the definition of "first degree squalor" and think..."That is SO NOT any form of squalor! That's just being a bit on the messy side and not being a neat freak type."
But I guess it is squalor, albeit a lowly form. What do I know?
Anyway, I'd be interested to hear form others who are second generation folks dealing with this?
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wendely
New Member
Joined: December 2008
Posts: 8
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Post by wendely on Dec 16, 2008 0:13:06 GMT -5
Hi! I am actually a third-generation hoarder. I remember my grandmother's house being full of stuff, her bedroom had boxes stacked to the ceiling and she had one room that was full of bolts of fabric. She kept egg cartons, buttons, empty bottles, etc. My mom was a crafter like her mom and always had yarn, fabric, paints, patterns, all over the place. I remember the dining room table being half to eat on, half for whatever crafts she was working on. We moved a lot and hauled the clutter from house to house. Our house had to be clean, dirty dishes done, floors mopped, laundry done, but the clutter was left alone. Then when my grandmother died, my mom "inherited" a lot of her stuff. So we had more clutter. Mom is in a nursing home now and still has a house full of clutter. None of her four kids have a place to put it because they are all third generation hoarders. There are things I would like to have, but I have to deal with my own clutter first. I have come to realize that part of my problem is that too much of my stuff has no "home", so it just gets left stacked in totes or stuffed in the closet. I have only started to get rid of the paper clutter. But I do see some improvement.  My goal for next year is to be able to invite someone to my home and not have to feel ashamed of the mess. And also to pass my annual apartment inspection in March. That should get me motivated! |
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Post by creativechaos on Dec 16, 2008 0:37:09 GMT -5
hi wind, my dad wouldn't throw anything away and my mom didn't even try to clean the house. she was not a housekeeper or a cook, and with 4 kids she was tired and suffered depression a lot. she also wouldn't let us clean or help her, so i learned slovenly habits and to not pick up after myself. i was a hoarder (and a compulsive overeater) from as far back as i could remember, at least from age 3. i seem to be the only one of the 4 offspring who is a hoarder and who lives in squalor. when i got my own room at age 8, i would pile all my "stuff" (which included trash and candy wrappers mixed in with the "treasures") onto the bed and sleep on one tiny edge of it. i fell out of bed a lot as a child! about twice a year my mom would threaten to throw everything out if i didn't clean my room. i still clean the apt. twice a year whether i need to or not,  ! seriously though: this idea and habit of maintenance and cleaning never took hold with me and i still hoard, so that exacerbates the problems i have. i know "intellectually" that i am still trying to fill the hole inside from early childhood abuses, some of which continued on through my teens. but the main actions that would make a difference in my life -- the good cleaning and maintaining habits-- i never learned. it's soooo hard to make them stick. i'll do well for awhile and then slide back to chaos and squalor. i have gotten rid of some stuff, but for me it has been slow and incremental and i still have a long ways to go. like wendely, i too want to pass annual apt. inspection and have the apt. visitor ready again. it has been at least a year since i have kept a consistently clean apt. for any length of time. it is time to change that. |
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Post by creativechaos on Dec 16, 2008 0:38:40 GMT -5
oh --- and welcome, wind and wendely! |
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Post by wind on Dec 16, 2008 3:18:20 GMT -5
seriously though: this idea and habit of maintenance and cleaning never took hold with me and i still hoard, so that exacerbates the problems i have. i know . I have the worst problem with maintenance. Like, a few nights ago, I spent hours and hours cleaning out and "detailing" the fridge...got it looking like new..the point where when I would think "this is just stained and can't be cleaned any better" I would try the toothbrush and Comet/Ajax/Whatever paste...and...lo and behold..those "permanent stains came up! It wasn't really stained; I was just being ***. Anyway, so, tonight I put the milk away and noticed that I have some "milk dribble" in one spot on the fridge shelf. One little tiny spot of icky in my immaculate fridge. So... What do I do? ................ I decide to leave it until my fridge "in general" needs cleaning again. I logically *know* I should maintain, but I also logically *know* i needs to do more important things with my cleaning time. *testing the profanity blocker* *** |
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Post by wind on Dec 16, 2008 5:11:31 GMT -5
seriously though: this idea and habit of maintenance and cleaning never took hold with me and i still hoard, so that exacerbates the problems i have. i know . I have the worst problem with maintenance. Like, a few nights ago, I spent hours and hours cleaning out and "detailing" the fridge...got it looking like new..the point where when I would think "this is just stained and can't be cleaned any better" I would try the toothbrush and Comet/Ajax/Whatever paste...and...lo and behold..those "permanent stains came up! It wasn't really stained; I was just being ***. Anyway, so, tonight I put the milk away and noticed that I have some "milk dribble" in one spot on the fridge shelf. One little tiny spot of icky in my immaculate fridge. So... What do I do? ................ I decide to leave it until my fridge "in general" needs cleaning again. I logically *know* I should maintain, but I also logically *know* i needs to do more important things with my cleaning time. *testing the profanity blocker* *** ETA: haha... The word "laayzee" is blocked here... ... |
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Post by Arid on Dec 16, 2008 17:02:27 GMT -5
wind, like you, I used to think that the only way to clean a refrigerator was to do a "deep" cleaning each and every time any cleaning at all was done. Since joining this community, I've learned a better way--WIPE UP EACH SPILL AS IT HAPPENS!!!!! Then, the need to do a "deep" cleaning is greatly reduced both in time and frequency. That means that I don't need to do the "deep clean" as often, and it is a much, much simpler job when I do do it. I'm not having to chip or soak away deep, deep crud. There is only a little bit of stuff to wash off with the dish soap or baking soda. (Some folks use vinegar; whatever. . .)
So, here's my advice--if you haven't done it already--get a damp paper towel, and GO WASH UP THAT DRIBBLED MILK FROM THE REFRIGERATOR SHELF--RIGHT NOW!!!! Voila! Your refrigerator will be "squeaky clean" within seconds. (If you are too much of a perfectionist to be satisfied with using only a damp paper towel, fine; then, use a damp paper towel with dish soap, or baking soda, or vinegar. Then, rinse off the spot with another damp paper towel.)
It takes some getting used to--this idea of doing only a "half-a##ed" cleaning of something, but trust me--it works far, far better than doing no cleaning at all!
You made the remark that you *logically* think that you have more important things to do with your cleaning time than taking the time to wipe up the milk dribbles. I would suggest that this is faulty logic on your part. It is far, far more cost-effective, time-wise, to spend 30 seconds wiping up a spill when it happens than it is to let it harden, fester, corrode, etc., hence requiring minutes, if not hours, to soften it enough to be able to wash it off the refrigerator shelf months down the line. Again, my advice is GO CLEAN IT UP RIGHT NOW!
Now, I realize that my stating this so emphatically may cause "demand resistance" to kick in with you. If you haven't read about it yet, you might want to go to the home page to read all about it. Lots of us--myself included--have a problem with it. (Perfectionism is a BIG problem for me, too. I'm learning to overcome it.)
Welcome to the board.
Arid
Arid
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Post by CaringFriend on Dec 16, 2008 17:03:51 GMT -5
Edited to add: Looks as if Arid and I posted at the same time. I agree 100% with what she said. Also, anytime you're doing dishes or wiping the counter, check out the fridge. Maintenance can be learned.Anyway, so, tonight I put the milk away and noticed that I have some "milk dribble" in one spot on the fridge shelf. One little tiny spot of icky in my immaculate fridge. I hated that, too, after working so hard. So the last time I deep-cleaned my fridge, I didn't want any more milk drips, soda can sticky rings, or dirty sticky rings from whatever. I tried paper towels on the shelves, but they ended up sticking to the shelves. Ugh! Then I used dish towels. That worked! When they get dirty looking, I just toss them in the washer. That idea carried over to the crisper drawers. Ever get liquid from something decaying? Or pieces of onion skins, or other debris from fruit and veggies? Yep! I put dish towels in the crisper drawers, too! The last time I cleaned my fridge was 7/02/07!  Not kidding! I know the date because I put it on my Microsoft Outlook calendar and used the recurring function to have a reminder pop up the 2nd of every month. When I see that reminder, I just check the fridge to see if it needs any special attention. Most times, it just needs, crumbs brushed from the pleats in the door seal with an old toothbrush, or one other shelf wiped off. The reminder says "Fridge cleaned 7/02/07". Imagine! A whole year and a half and it still looks awesome.  My new mantra is "Prevention is the best cleaning tool." Sorry to have strayed from the generational discussion, but I just had to share so you could benefit, too.
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Post by mallery on Dec 16, 2008 17:04:09 GMT -5
2nd generation squalor here.
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Post by threeg on Dec 16, 2008 23:02:25 GMT -5
Third generation here. That's why my screen name is 3G. I was a hoarder, but I tossed and donated a LOT when I moved 12 years ago, and tossed/donated again on my last move almost three years ago. I still have a room that is floor to cieling boxes and bins, and we have stuff in the attic as well. (Not a lot.) This is the keep stuff. I know that I have to cull out a lot from that, but there's no time right now. I think there are lots of us here who are at least 2nd generation squalorees and/or hoarders. I joke that it's in my genes!  3G |
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Post by Ican on Dec 17, 2008 1:33:22 GMT -5
It takes some getting used to--this idea of doing only a "half-a##ed" cleaning of something, but trust me--it works far, far better than doing no cleaning at all! Arid, what you wrote about doing a half-a##ed job being better than doing no cleaning at all helped me. It motivated me to mop my kitchen & utility room floors, that I had been procrastinating and was feeling badly about before. (Now they are done and I'm smiling.)  Thanks! ..................... P.S. Regarding the topic, I'm the "second generation" who has issues with housekeeping. My mother has problems with clutter and hoarding, too. ... As far as my clutter goes, I'm trying to "nip it in the bud" so I can prevent it becoming like the situation I grew up in. ... I think this forum will help me to do that. Thanks! |
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Post by notsomessyshell on Dec 17, 2008 1:49:33 GMT -5
I am a 1st generation. My house was always clean growing up. My mother was a stay at home mom. I always had a messy room. Not allowed to be filthy. She kept the garbage and food out, but I had to clean all the rest. She would just shut my door. I would periodically clean top to bottom. But it would not stay that way for long. I don't remember my gramma's house being messy or cluttered. Even when they moved into a little trailer from a big house. My father's mother had a clean but cluttered house. I loved it there. My hubby is a hoarder and I believe part of it was that his father never let him keep anything. His room had to be immaculate. He didn't have many toys after the age of 9. It is really quite sad.
I have one kid who is very neat. He is always cleaning his room. He even keeps the vacuum in his room. Need help tossing stuff? Call him, he is the king of "toss it". Now youngest is just like me. I am trying to break the cycle! Trying to teach him to put stuff away and keep himself and his room clean.
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Post by dayeanu on Dec 17, 2008 18:04:43 GMT -5
I might be a second-generation hoarder. My mother is a neat freak, but by mouth she is a hoarder. By that, I mean that she talks, talks, talks hoarding. "Don't throw away that piece of foil! You better save that string. You might be mighty glad to have it someday. Tear that paper napkin in half. You don't need a whole one. Don't use the paper towel, save it. Use a rag instead. When things get bad, you're gonna wish you had washed and re-used those plastic bread bags. You're being wasteful. Don't drink a glass of milk, you're just being extravagant. You're so wasteful. You need to try to save everything you can." That's what I grew up hearing, and I still hear it. As a child, I guess I took it to heart, and I tried to save anything that could ever be re-used. Well, now I'm a hoarder, and you can guess what my house looks like.
On the other hand, while my mother makes a big production of tearing paper napkins in two and only using 1/2, she doesn't do most of the things she constantly pushed us to do. And she spends money extravagantly in areas that add up much quicker than wasting paper napkins. I didn't realize all this until recently.
Although she does not save bits of string and plastic bags, as she insisted we do, she does save lots of stuff back. She has towels that are 40 years old and like new, because she only puts them out when company comes, and even then, we all know better than to touch them.
Kinda crazy, isn't it.
I might add that she is wealthy, so all this need of conserving is a figment of her imagination, or perhaps a verbal form of entertainment for her. Too bad I believed her all those years.
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Post by fluffernut - now Jannie on Dec 17, 2008 18:32:02 GMT -5
I'm definitely 2nd generation. Mom was always a bad housekeeper. She didn't clean much. She liked to cook and do crafts, not clean. And she never threw anything away. She had this hutch in the kitchen, she stored dishes in it. It was junk, just pressed cardboard, but it looked okay. Then my brother bought her a real wood cabinet. It replaced the "cardboard" one. And what did Mom do with the old one? Toss it? No! She moved it into the living room and turned it on its' side. And it's been lying there for 25 years. Too "good"' to throw away. A tree fell over in the back yard. My sister's father in law offered to come over with his chain saw and cut it up if he could have the wood for his fireplace. Sounds like a good deal, the tree cleaned up and hauled away? No, she wouldn't let him. "He should buy his firewood, like everyone else."That's the kind of thinking that got her stuck in her house at 85, with piles of junk. And I'm just as bad. I give things away, but I'm still a very bad housekeeper.
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Post by Arid on Dec 18, 2008 1:26:19 GMT -5
Ican: Way to go on cleaning those floors!
I'm glad that my words helped. I have to give FlyLady some credit, though. She's the one who makes a habit of saying something along the lines of "housework done imperfectly still blesses the family." That little concept helps me a lot.
Arid
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