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Post by peppermint66 on Apr 13, 2009 22:13:25 GMT -5
what would you say to them? The "experts" being people who have made studying the psychology of squalor and or hoarding their field of expertise? What message would you ask them to take to the world for you ?
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Post by Meme on Apr 13, 2009 22:17:04 GMT -5
who decides what or who is ''normal''
and why to we have to wear a label that clutters
us - and covers us -
look under the label and see and hear who we really are beyond our squalor-
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Post by gettingsomewhere on Apr 14, 2009 3:41:35 GMT -5
very well said meme.x.
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Post by Lucky Laura Loving Life on Apr 14, 2009 18:59:38 GMT -5
I would say rather than judge, how about more help available?
Whether it be counseling or classes,maybe support meetings.
But quit creating shame for people who likely as not are not happy
with the situation but haven't a clue where to begin.
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hopehope
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Joined: May 2008
Posts: 3,815 
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Post by hopehope on Apr 14, 2009 19:41:53 GMT -5
oh, the shame and the mud throwing -- yeah, that's it. starting with Oprah...
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Post by slothzilla on Apr 14, 2009 19:56:53 GMT -5
It seems that a lot of squalor stems from depression...and depression worsens due to squalor. Its a vicious cycle. Maybe the true professionals understand this, but the general public certainly doesn't, and tends to be judgmental.
Like Ladeschaine suggested, some counseling, support groups, motivational therapy &/or classes in this area could really help a lot of people. I don't know of anything like that except for this website, and an $80 3-hour seminar on de-cluttering coming to my city in several months...some type of community support could really benefit a lot of people. (and that goes not only for squalorers, but more help for those who suffer from depression also...not everyone has health insurance and can afford to seek treatment).
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MiSC
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Posts: 1,611
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Post by MiSC on Apr 14, 2009 22:10:10 GMT -5
I think Pep was asking about THE experts -- Frost, Tolin, and Steketee. Not NOprah. (blech.)
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Post by Alexandra on Apr 15, 2009 13:03:33 GMT -5
I think my clutter stems out of boredom...or I get too wrapped up in something interesting (boredom factor again). I read a LOT. I love reading. I tell myself, okay, at X:XX I'll start doing something...then before I know it, it's 2 hours AFTER that.
It takes me getting sick enough of looking at it to get my butt in gear.
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Post by Cince on Apr 15, 2009 23:22:40 GMT -5
I think Pep was asking about THE experts -- Frost, Tolin, and Steketee. Not NOprah. (blech.) I really don't think hopehope thinks of Oprah as an expert. I would like to see more support groups, like this one, only for hoarders. I don't like to hear the experts talk about the "hopelessness" of it. I don't think they are correct in saying that OCD hoarders do not want treatment. I just read this that was said by Charles H. Elliott, Ph.D, in response to a response to an article written by him titled "Hoarding OCD", "hoarding OCD is absolutely the most difficult type and does easily lead to homelessness. The fact that they typically don’t want treatment is a major part of why it’s so difficult. The Compulsive Hoarding & Acquiring Workbook program developed by Steketee and Frost is the best thing out there, but relatively few practitioners know much about it." I just would like to see more resources for hoarders, and less talk from the experts about how "untreatable" it is. Thanks |
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Post by annieblue on Apr 16, 2009 2:20:35 GMT -5
Cince, I surely agree! Hearing/reading time & time again about the hopelessness doesn't do anything but bring us down further. Sometimes I think 'the experts' resort to that conclusion because they just HAVE NOT found a way to best treat/help us yet. Pass the buck, so to speak. NO ONE wants to hear they are the toughest cases in all of mental health to fix! Lawsy! FIGURE IT OUT, PEOPLE, & then earn accolades for doing something USEFUL for us. Um, yeah, I am feeling a tad miffed at the moment,  . Well, once upon a time I was told by a dentist (I was maybe 18 years-old at the time) that I had the STRANGEST mouth he had ever seen. Holy Moly, that stuck with me for a verrrrrry long time. And 'why' was my mouth so flippin strange? Well, because I was given lots of tertacycline & who knows what-all else when I was tiny, & this caused some of my adult teeth to not at all form behind my baby teeth. Mostly the side & back teeth, but still. And so there I was at 18 with a bunch of baby teeth still in my head, . And of course baby teeth aren't meant to last forever, so I had lots of issues with them & have always had work in progress to maintain & then finally replace/crown them. Point is, who needs to hear they are such a freak of nature??? I would much rather hear it said we are difficult to treat BECAUSE proper treatment has not yet been 'uncovered'. Pun INTENDED, ha!
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Post by 60isolderthanithot on Apr 16, 2009 12:36:01 GMT -5
I'd say that unless they themselves have the behavior or live with someone who does, I'd just as soon see nothing but raw data from them. Conclusions are too easily contaminated with unspoken assumptions and biases. We're long past the age where science inquiries were untainted by self-interest, sometimes to the point of self-absorption. We've seen what shrinks have done to other communities, from learning disabled to transgender. Book and movie deals aren't the best goads to scientific objectivity.
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Post by lilith on Apr 17, 2009 18:21:56 GMT -5
This a disease. We are not l--y. We can't just "throw it out". For some us as, at certain times, we can no more throw it out than we could cut off our fingers. I get that throwing out a book isn't the same as cutting off a finger to you but it can be to us. Most of us understand that it isn't the same thing intellectually and that doesn't help one bit. It FEELS LIKE THAT!! Unless you understand that you can't possibly treat us. If normals felt like we do sometimes, they wouldn't say the things they do.
Which brings me to: hoarding and squalor are 2 completely different things. They may look the same to you but they FEEL differently to us. Understanding that might help in our treatment.
Loving, well-meaning people can set us back, perhaps forever (see My Mother's Garden) by doing house clean-outs. It is like cutting out the tongue of an alcoholic.
Tell Oprah (when you're on her show) that she has empathy for everyone(racists, Chris Brown, ET AL) except us. If she can't have any empathy for us to please not do anymore shows as she only contributes to the tragic legacy of squalor. Many of us are on the edge of suicide and when Oprah says you're a piece of crap, people believe it.
Please educate social workers, police, school authorities and other government agencies that we are not evil. We have a medical condition. Please balance protecting the world from us with trying to help us.
We are not a freak show.
Please continue your research into our condition. We get that we are difficult to treat. That just means we need the help.
Sincerely,
Lilith
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Post by dayeanu on Apr 17, 2009 20:06:31 GMT -5
I'm not familiar with the "professionals" to which were referred. But I know what happened to me when I went to counseling for help. Because I showed up looking and smelling reasonably clean and well-groomed, I could not seem to make the therapist understand the extent of my problem. I was too humiliated by it to take pictures. But I did repeatedly try to tell her that it was really bad. But she just did not get it.
I changed to another therapist, with the same results. I cried when I tried to tell him how bad it was. He just thought I was depressed. He never got it, either.
I wish they would get a clue that just because I don't look like I crawled out from under the main street bridge, I still have a real bad problem.
Because I had limited funds and had to go where treatment was on a sliding pay scale, I didn't have the option to just keep changing therapists.
I wish that mental health services were more readily available to everyone.
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Post by Cince on Apr 20, 2009 16:16:26 GMT -5
Tell Oprah (when you're on her show) that she has empathy for everyone(racists, Chris Brown, ET AL) except us. If she can't have any empathy for us to please not do anymore shows as she only contributes to the tragic legacy of squalor. Many of us are on the edge of suicide and when Oprah says you're a piece of crap, people believe it. Hear, hear! Thanks lilith |
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