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Post by HFH on Jul 31, 2009 16:06:19 GMT -5
Its five against me. I surrender. Everything or anything I do is undone before I can admire what I did.
No amount of asking,threatening,bribing. They just do not care.
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Post by juniper2 on Jul 31, 2009 16:16:30 GMT -5
HFH...sorry about your plight...I emphathize. I live alone so don't have that problem. Don't really have solutions...in my household as a child my mom would just scream at me when anything was out of place...we lived in a museum not a house! That worked really well for me...was in fear. But do what you need to do and don't let it get to you...I know easier said than done. Don't know your situation but try not to enable the adults...let them clean their own mess. Oh, don't threaten...just do...go thru with the threat if it's to throw things out or not clean their mess.  |
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Post by wyoming on Jul 31, 2009 16:34:54 GMT -5
I knew this woman who had a ton of kids and they lived in a particularly cramped house - this was back in Virginia. If her kids (not sure about hubby), left things in the shared living areas (living room I remember) scattered on the ground, she'd just pick the things up and throw them away. My friend (one of the kids) had several toys tossed out this way. My guess is that she didn't throw everything away, but it made me think about your situation....what if everything they plunked down got thrown out or put into a locked closet so they couldn't get to it? If it was a toy or something, toss it, but like schoolbooks keep? No kids here either, so I don't even know if it's realistic, but maybe doing something like this may help get through thick skulls?
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Post by Chris on Jul 31, 2009 17:27:43 GMT -5
It can really be a challenge I know. What I did/do is concentrate more on areas & stuff that I consider mine. And it has taken me a long time to get it to the point where I can claim areas. I worked hard to get it this way in terms of my own beside stand, my own dresser, my own closet, my desk, etc.
My husband has one each of those things that are "his" too now and it is easier now that it is just the two of us but we used to be 5 -- our son, me and DH and his mom and dad. When there are 5 it can be pretty tricky to have much personal space. Our home is small and there is only one bathroom.
I don't know about you and your family, but me and mine all live with a degree of clutter/packrat/squalor/hoarding. All of us. So that complicates things but there is definitely hope - we have really changed a lot over the years toward the better. I've sought out help for myself and adjusted my expectations that anyone else will change -- I just do what I need to do with my own stuff and I do the best I can with the rest of our home.
The areas like the livingroom, kitchen, bathroom are easier now that it is just me and DH.
I guess my main message is -- do not give up. Concentrate on your things to start with and try to fix it so there are baskets (for trash) and sort of idiot proof things for the others. They may not come around right away but once they see how organized your things are it is likely to rub off on them.
When you're dealing with a lot of people/kids these are some things I think can help:
*plenty of hampers for dirty clothes and/or laundry baskets
*small trash baskets (or even a bucket just something) in every room
*toys = some kind of containers to throw them into easily for cleanup
*a place for everything (shelf/hook/whatever) even if it takes people a long time to adapt they will
You may seem like the only one who cares at all but I think that most people really like order once they've experienced some. Good luck!!!!!
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Post by theroyaldump on Jul 31, 2009 17:51:11 GMT -5
I am so sorry to hear this as I have been in your shoes. I got to the very point you have .... and I gave up. Growing up I don't remember Moms house ever being messy. It was mostly clean because she had a regular cleaning lady. When I grew up I discovered garage sales and introduced them to Mom. We would go all day from 8am to 5pm 2 times a week buying all kinds of cheap stuff and that I think was the beginnig of our squalor. It started with Mom filling up her entire bedroom with just a little path to the bed. She could no longer open her drawers or closet. When she ran out of room there, she started stacking things behind the couch and chairs in the living room. Then the chairs and end and coffee tables would be covered. I would tell Mom that I didn't care what she did in her bedroom but it all had to stay in there. I would clean up and not long after it would be back in the living room. About a year of this I realized I was beating my head against the wall. I got sick and tired of doing all that hard work and no one would help keep it up. I became depressed becasue I couldn't have anyone over anymore. My depression grew and I found that I was beginning to stack and pile things everywhere too. Who cared??? Then Mom got sick and went into a nursing home and I was faced with an entire 7 room house, basement and attic included, filled to the gills. No one in the family would help me go through all that stuff becasue they said it was all my fault that it got like that. It took me many months to clear it out. The house was sold and I moved into this little condo where I had everything just so. Everything neat and in its place. About 2 years ago the clutter started all over again with the piling and stacking until I find myself living the way I SWORE I would never do again. Depression sucks. I have no answers for you HFH. I totally understand your frustration of working so dog gone hard and no one lifts a finger to help keep it that way. You have my complete sympathy.  |
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Post by seekingpeace on Jul 31, 2009 18:19:12 GMT -5
Hi, I don't have an answer for you either, but I can share my experience. Five of us in an apartment and it was crowded and noone picked up after themselves. I bought 5 square laundry baskets and wrote each person's name on them and lined them up along a wall and each time I found something that didn't belong, I flung it in their basket. This included clean laundry, homework, whatever. And it was their job to empty their basket every night. They didn't empty them, I didn't nag, I dumped the basket on their bed when it was full and shut the door. I know that's not really a solution, but it kept me from feeling so put upon and disrespected for all the work I was doing and it kept the main areas picked up. It also eased my stress over the tossed clutter everywhere. I still use baskets with the last 2 kids at home - 7 & 8 and they are learning that having it dumped on their beds is awful and putting it away only takes a few minutes  there is hope. I think. |
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Post by Script on Jul 31, 2009 19:46:13 GMT -5
I believe that each and every human being, no matter how strong, how smart, how focused, has moments (days, weeks, months, years) when the temptation to GIVE UP is almost overwhelming. I want to give up almost daily: retreat to my bed, stay there, and turn into a vegetable. It seems SOOOOOOOOOOOOO much easier than to keep on keeping on. Fighting whatever battles life throws in my way............ Just think: there are VERY FEW KIDS on this earth who are born motivated to keep things tidy. VERY FEW KIDS who just love to do homework. Who can't wait for the end of summer holidays. You see where I'm going? It's the role of parents to be parents. The kids are rarely mature and rational and helpful, all on their own. I am so sorry that you feel so discouraged. Here's hoping that tomorrow will look brighter to you. |
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Post by Meme on Jul 31, 2009 20:28:52 GMT -5
sadly some of us humans have to have consequences in order to get the rules-- for example- re speeding-- it takes a fine and in some cases a lot of fines and maybe even the loss of the driver's license to get the message that there is a speed limit-
if kids have no consequences and threatening is not a consequence unless you follow through and asking does not work try telling and bribing should not have to come into the equation-
then why should they do something? They are getting what they want by not doing anything-
my girl friend had this problem with her son- his job was to cut the lawn but he did a poor job with lots of whining and pushing and never completed the lawn - so she has to take him to school so she started stopping half way there and just sat in the car- of course. he wants to know why and what is he to do?-- she told he could walk the rest of the way as she did not feel like driving all the way---(he is old enough and safe to do this). She took out book and just sat reading and he walked-- she never told him what the lesson was he needed to learn and it took about a week before he came to her and asked-
he got the message - she does this often in different forms re her kids and they get the lessons with consequences and she gets them to do what she needs done-
every member in a family has a responsibility and needs to be held accountable-
and they need to receive respect and they need to give respect-
my friend just sweeps the toys and tosses everything out- yes- her kids ended up with nearly nothing before they got the message but now as soon as they see the broom they get busy.
and no- she did not buy more toys to replace the lost ones.
we woman often do too much and we nag and threaten and cry and give up because we are tired of doing it all-- and yet, we keep on doing too much - our kids have too much so that we do not even have a place to ground our kids too because their rooms are filled with entertainment-
I like doctor phil's idea of removing every thing from their room except the bed and not letting them have it back unless they earn the right to have again.
Kids do learn what we teach them-we do not realize sometimes that we have made them irresponsible by doing too much.
hugs and just start making consequences and follow through- it will be battle but you can win the war.
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Post by messymimi on Jul 31, 2009 21:07:36 GMT -5
In my house I fight the masses, too.
Five cats, plus various numbers of foster cats (have had as many as 12 fosters at a time), tracking litter all over, barfing hairballs, and shedding enough to knit a new litter of kittens each month if I needed more.
The crazy squirrel that thinks every place in the house is a toilet, drops corn all over, chews everything, and buries nuts everywhere (including in my hair braid when I let her climb on my shoulder!  ).
The pet snake that needs to be fed fish every other day.
Four children, and only one born a neat person.
The husband who is trained as an archaeologist, which means he loves to dig through people's garbage, and bring it home. The kids have inherited his propensities.
My parents, who don't live with us, but who bring us boxes and bags from their house, because born organized dad makes mom get rid of stuff, so she sends it here with strict instructions on what I can get rid of and how, and when, and why.
It is not perfect, but I am winning.
I started by picking one place to keep clean. In my case, it was the central cooking areas of the kitchen. I cook, a lot, for my family and others, and the kitchen must stay clean, at least the food prep surfaces, sink, stove, fridge. Anything to do with food. I expanded the clean from there by training the family to keep just this area clean, and expanding outward.
It isn't easy. It never is. There will be setbacks. There will be times you give up. Give up, just for a short while, then start again.
This thread may give you a good idea of how to start:
takeonestepatatime.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=4206
messymimi
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Post by luckyducky on Aug 1, 2009 0:39:52 GMT -5
HFH:
I am in the exact same boat. I only have two children, but they are as messy as twenty! No matter how much I clean or organize, the place is always a mess. I can clean one room and go back into the clean room later and see its a disaster. No amount of begging, pleading, yelling, or crying will stop them. Summer has been very stressful for me. They are at home all day. The kitchen is a disaster when I get home. Dirty dishes laying about. Actual food spilled and left on the counters and floors. I asked them to clean their rooms, which they did and left me feeling rather impressed until I found out that they had just put all of their stuff in my room because they did not want to get rid of it. Now I have to sleep on the couch. And what did I do to stop all of this nonsense? Nothing. I felt so overwhelmed and powerless. I just tried to hide away from it. I avoided the worst rooms. I have not gone in my own room for weeks. They recently went camping for three days. I cleaned the living room, kitchen, and hallway. The moment they stepped in the door they stated that the house was really clean. In less than four hours all those rooms were messed up. I don't mean to turn this into a complaint-fest, but I also feel like I am ready to give up. But if I give up who is gonna take over my job?
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Post by clutterfree on Aug 1, 2009 20:37:08 GMT -5
they had just put all of their stuff in my room because they did not want to get rid of it.
You might consider getting rid of it, and reclaiming your room.
When I was a kid and was screamed at to clean my room, I shuffled stuff around and packed beneath my bed and my closet, and even tried to find other places in the house for things, not because I didn't want to get rid off stuff, but because I believed (rightfully so) that my mother didn't want me to get rid of things. There were even things in my room that didn't belong to me that I was helpless to get rid of.
If they don't want the stuff in their room, it's because there's not enough room for it in there and they're obviusly keeps things they want the most close to them and in their rooms. Try looking at why they want to keep things and decide if they really do. Maybe they do want to get rid of it but don't fee like they're supposed to.
At the very least it sounds like they have too much stuff, and some needs to be gotten rid of just to make room.
GOod luck!
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