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Post by messedupdreamz on Jan 15, 2010 6:48:16 GMT -5
I've been a hoarder since I can remember, but I have had my whole house neat and clean. Not that it lasts, but there have been intermittent times. It doesn't mean that the stuff is not still there, but it has been packed away in rooms or corners, garages and basements. It's never been completely organized, though.
Anyway this used to happen to me, every time I'd get things cleaned up. I'd feel naked. I'd feel as though everything was too perfect. I became fearful - like my stuff somehow protected me as it lay around me. With my bedroom clean, I would feel so vulnerable that I often couldn't get to sleep. My mind would be too clear for too many thoughts to enter.
I've gotten better about this in recent years, having lived with an OCD person who has to have the house clean, and my hoarding has been relegated to 'special areas'. Of course that drives me insane, but on some level I know it's good. I'm just wondering what I'd fill my head with if I were ever to be organized. It's actually a really scary thought, to some degree. It even sounds funny to me as I write this. Can anyone relate?
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Post by serenitynow on Jan 15, 2010 7:51:05 GMT -5
Hi messedupdreamz,
I'm sending you a PM
serenitynow
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Post by Rory on Jan 15, 2010 10:37:55 GMT -5
I experience anxiety when things are tidy. I think for me it is about change as I am not yet used to tidyness and also I fear things becoming chaotic again.
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Post by howardsgirlfriend on Jan 15, 2010 11:11:01 GMT -5
Yes! That sense of "if I didn't have this (insert whatever undesirable trait applies), would I still be me?" is very common when one experiences a major change. Reminds me of something from an episode of "How Clean is Your House" featuring a lady whose tiny apartment was so squalored up that she had coped without hot water for years: "It's my whole life going out." "But it's a new life coming in." It might take a year for your new life to take shape. If you don't like it. I'm sure you can find a way to squalor it up again.  |
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Post by MsHavisham on Jan 15, 2010 11:42:12 GMT -5
Thanks for starting this thread, messedupdreamz. I agree with you. To me, when everything is perfect there is something coldly antiseptic and bereft about it. It's like being in a hospital room or a hotel room. Even if you have lots of good company, there's something lonely and strange and anxiety provoking about those rooms.
The last time I moved I deliberately jettisoned a lot of stuff to make a fresh start and when the movers were gone and everything was put away, I was very proud of my perfect new home - and had lots of company in and out all the time - but I was also bursting into tears from anxiety and an inexplicable feeling of isolation - even though I wasn't isolated at all. In fact, since I was so much closer to friends and downtown, I was much less isolated than I'd been at the old place.
It's weird and I don't understand it, but I definitely feel it too, messedupdreamz!
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Post by Rory on Jan 15, 2010 12:10:02 GMT -5
I've been thinking further about this. When my place is tidy it feels empty. I suppose I might put some nice things in rather than junk. Also there is the thought I've had 'When my place is tidy then I'll get on with my life and...'. Now getting on with my life is challenging in a different way. I welcome it and I'm nervous and excited.
Rory
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Post by Meme on Jan 15, 2010 15:56:15 GMT -5
no- I have the opposite fear- that I will never get organized---it is hard to use things in chaos and that is my goal but I still try to keep too many things to use- just keep thinking of the open space and the peace of non chaos
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Post by puppybox on Jan 15, 2010 16:33:48 GMT -5
yes! thats why big clean ups don't last, only routines that are built up really slowly seem to work. I'm now used to a sparser environment than i thought possible int he past. It does grow on you!
I think partly I feared being bored- what if I was bored and had nothing to read, or look at, or old things to find that I had put away and forgotten about (long lost treasures). i'm trying to live by the philosophy that you need to put things into the universe to get things back -I like it when people put "free" boxes of used books on the lawn for me to take some, so I should do it for others. I gave away a perfectly great desk becasue I don't need any desk now. I will just have to trust that when I need a desk the universe will provide me with money, or a cheap deal ona desk, or a friend that gives me a desk, etc.
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Post by Celeste on Jan 15, 2010 19:10:14 GMT -5
Is it the organization that bothers you, or the space?
Organizer Julie Morgenstern addressed this when Kimmy started cleaning. She said that for some hoarders, the hoard was a way of cocooning themselves from the outside world. Removing the barricade made them feel vulnerable. She suggested that Kimmy take cleaning and de-hoarding in stages so that she had time to accustom herself to the new space before moving to the next stage. It would be less traumatic for her.
Does that sound like it might help?
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Post by mish on Jan 15, 2010 20:26:55 GMT -5
Wow, that sounds like me and my weight. I seriously need to lose at least 100lbs for my health (if nothing else!) but.... who would I be? I've been "fat me" for so long. And Rory, the "ok, now that's out of the way, I can get on with my life...." What life? Argh.
And then there's the "even though it's failing, I'm used to that" mindset. Kind of like children who misbehave so they can get some attention.
I know my cat hates it when I declutter - she likes things to be the same all the time. I guess we're alike!
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Post by anonymoose on Jan 15, 2010 20:40:25 GMT -5
Your feelings make sense to me! It's like there's nothing there to fill the void. Mish said it well - "What life"? There's all this anxiety about not having anything to take the place of what you've lost - even if what you had wasn't making you happy.
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
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Post by Deleted on Jan 15, 2010 20:52:37 GMT -5
I have also had intermittent periods of neatness. I know that feeling of anxiety over open spaces. But I can say that it gets easier every time I go through another round of decluttering.
Right now I have lots of open space and it doesn't bother me like it used to. I think I have learned over time that I really do have everything I need.
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MiSC
Banned
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 1,611 
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Post by MiSC on Jan 15, 2010 20:54:01 GMT -5
Celeste, I'm very happy in my cocoon too.
No.
I've BEEN very happy in my cocoon, but I'm not happy in it now.
I was always messy, but I was never a squalorer -- until one event happened. It was due to one person's inaction, and my world just exploded all around me. I know for a fact that that was the day when I became a hoarder/squalorer. I could probably go back and find out the exact date. It was sometime in April, 1994.
From that point on I wanted the world OUT. So I made it impossible that anyone would ever want to come in. Also, I had a very good reason to keep them out. I could just talk through the door and say, "You can't come in."
That's no longer an option, and things are changing. Creating new habits is terribly hard though. Terribly hard.
messedupdreamz, if I'm reading you correctly, and I may not be, it's the actual *feeling* you have, the physical feeling, being in a crowded space. Does it have to be crowded with your own things, or is it just that feeling of being more comfortable in a closed space? (I used to sleep in closets when I was little. I still hate big open spaces like arenas and such. My knees get wobbly.)
If it's just that sendsation of being surrounded, and if you're able to sort and toss reasonably well, an organizer once told me a trick she offers her hoarding clients. Clean a hoarded area up. Get all the stuff out of there. But don't freak out at the emptiness. Go to the liquor store and get a brazillion cardboard boxes, and pile the empty boxes up in that space. Then, every couple of days or so, take one box away. It sort of weans you off the clutter for that area.
Then, protecting your progress, move on to the next area.
Hope that helps.
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Post by paperpiler on Jan 16, 2010 13:33:43 GMT -5
Celeste, I'm very happy in my cocoon too. If it's just that sendsation of being surrounded, and if you're able to sort and toss reasonably well, an organizer once told me a trick she offers her hoarding clients. Clean a hoarded area up. Get all the stuff out of there. But don't freak out at the emptiness. Go to the liquor store and get a brazillion cardboard boxes, and pile the empty boxes up in that space. Then, every couple of days or so, take one box away. It sort of weans you off the clutter for that area. . Wow, that's really interesting. I'm the protection-type person, but not necessarily a barricader. When my apartment gets to be at a 0, which it has been (but rarely), I am thrilled beyond belief, but also anxious. I can't see myself going to get boxes. I don't think I need a bunch. But I do need a little for a temporary safety net. What I just thought of...since I need something/anything as my "protection"...is maybe to put a stack of books there...just something minimal to inhabit space to give me time for adjustment. Yank a book a day away.  |
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Post by Rennie Ellen on Jan 16, 2010 15:22:06 GMT -5
Since my home is almost totally organized (the living room still needs some work), I love it! Before I became totally disabled, I was a "cleanie". I wasn't overly obsessive about it but back then I had more energy and it was easier for me to maintain things.
Now as I look through my apartment (which is becoming more and more cozy as things get organized and decluttered), I'm like, "Wow. A long time ago, I used to live like this EVERY day."
I made breakfast this morning -- coffee and cinnamon toast -- and I was SO careful not to spill a drop of coffee or have crumbs drop on the counter and floor. I used a paper plate and washed my silverware and mug immediately after I ate, then put them away.
What my fear is -- and always will be now that I have health "challenges" -- is the balance between maintenance and clutter for me is so delicate that a major health crisis would mess everything up again. I fear that I'll won't be able to maintain because of my low energy levels. My aide is a great help, but with the health care thing going on, I might end up losing her services after just getting them due to medicaid cuts in the health care bill. The aide shared with me she's already lost 2 of her clients and they're wheelchair bound. I feel the urgency to get everything in order NOW before this happens. If the aide and I can get the hard stuff done NOW, then it should be easier to maintain in case I'm on my own again.
So I'm not afraid of being TOO organized -- I'm afraid of my body failing me yet again and my home once again reverting back into disorganization and chaos.
P.S. I LOVE "How Clean Is Your House" on BBC America! I get some of the best cleaning tips from Kim and Aggie, like using baking soda and white vinegar to clean a yucky garbage disposal, and using mouthwash to clean your phone.
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