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Post by Fivecat on Jan 28, 2010 7:52:56 GMT -5
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MiSC
Banned
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 1,611 
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Post by MiSC on Jan 28, 2010 9:09:06 GMT -5
We don't have the trash and clothes laying around that we used to, but that article sure is scary. If I backslide I could be in bad trouble.
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Post by AnnieOkie on Jan 28, 2010 9:49:44 GMT -5
I can honestly see the reasoning here. If they are going to insure people, they have to be sure the property is not a fire risk, isn't falling apart from neglect, etc.
I can think of a few fire risks in my home at this moment. I need to do something about that.
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Post by charis on Jan 28, 2010 10:27:18 GMT -5
As the author of the article states, almost all inspections are outside only. As a retired military couple, my husband and I had to obtain new renter's insurance every 2 years or so for 20 years. No one ever asked to come inside.
What does raise alarm in me though, is the idea that retroactively the company might try to deny a claim based on clutter. Whether a problem is truly caused by clutter or not, I can see an insurance company trying to deny payment. I have never made a claim on a renter's or homeowner's policy but I have had someone hit my car while they were speeding and going the wrong direction in a parking lot and that driver's company nearly twisted themselves inside out trying to find some way to claim that it was partially my fault--eventually they did pay the whole thing
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Post by Script on Jan 28, 2010 12:05:50 GMT -5
when we were trying to sell our 18,000 square foot building (3rd and 4th degree squalor), we had multiple insurance problems. The main one: lack of current inspection on the sprinkler system. we were very curious at how the building had been properly insured by my sister during her tenancy.
we were finally able to get insurance by piggy-backing our building onto a policy for multiple places owned by my brother-in-law.
i have to tell y'all: i remember HUGE ISSUES with the fire inspections when i worked there: anything blocking doorways, stairs, exits: the fire marshals would go CRAZY.
i would also suspect that the tremendous interest in the A&E show 'hoarders' has tipped the insurance people off to various potential problems HIDDEN....behind the proverbial closed doors.
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Post by 60isolderthanithot on Jan 28, 2010 16:02:58 GMT -5
If you read the fine print in mortgages, there are usually clauses requiring the "owner" to keep it in good condition. Check it out, you'd be surprised how particular some notes are.
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Post by gifted on Jan 28, 2010 20:38:21 GMT -5
My personal experience is that I have had my insurance lapse due to not paying twice. On both occasions, I was told to do certain things to satisfy the underwriter, and I did them. And got my insurance back. It was scary in the meantime worrying about whether I would pass their inspection. But in the end it wasn't a big deal. Their concerns were firewood in the backyard, and other messy stuff,, a cluttered back porch, dirty vinyl siding. Also, I probably needed to mow and prune, because that gets out of hand. They never asked to enter my house, or asked about the conditions inside. Now my opinion of the article: I worked in the life insurance industry for 11 years, and while my experience has not been in property and casualty insurance, I think I know enough (or at least used to, to have a somewhat knowledgeable opinion about insurance matters. Things also have changed since I left the field. But here is my "for what it is worth" opinion. I consider this article a misleading peice of mish-mosh. He states something about insurers seeing a risk. But then the rest of the paragraph cites the Mental Health Association. The two groups have very different concerns. The other group he mentions is a landlords group, which again has nothing to do with his topic of homeowners insurance. I do not think the author is being purposely misleading. I think he just jumbled a bunch of factoids to meet a deadline. And has a shallow understanding of the subjects of hoarding, insurance, and just about anything else mentioned in the article. The truth is that insurance companies don't give a fig of the damage we might do to ourselves. They are only concerned with what they need to pay out in claims. For home insurance there are two main types of risks, property (which is damage to the structure its contents, or things) and liability (financial damage to the owner of the property, but someone getting hurt.) Most of us with that degree of clutter don't invite other people into our homes, so the insurance companies have a LOWER risk of liability. Homeowners insurance doesn't cover us if we fall over our own stuff! Likewise rotting food and rodents are not going to be something we can file a claim on since they are not a covered risk, like a fire or other accident. If we fall through a floor because it is rotten, the claim will be denied, not because of clutter or hoarding, but because there was a leaky pipe or some other cause that is not a risk that the insurance covers. These things happen in uncluttered homes also. Water damage goes under the vinyl floor, and the floor gets squishy, but I think most people ignore what they don't understand. Fire hazards keeping us from escaping our own homes is also something an insurer is not too worried about. They are concerned with property and liability losses He also mentions "strict Homeowners insurance laws" and "bad exposure statutes." In general, the various state insurance departments are in place to prevent insurance companies from taking advantage of consumers. I googled ["bad exposure" insurance statutes], and I really did not come up with any results that seem pertinent to this topic. "Exposure" in insurance company terms means that they are exposed to a financial risk. And the entire purpose of underwriting is to keep the insurance company from "exposing" themselves to risks that they did not consider while pricing the policy. This has absolutely nothing to do with any kind of law, as far as I know. I think the author is confusing too very different things. To confuse statutes, which are laws passed by the legislature, with underwriting policies, or contract provisions , which are business practices shows either a very poor command of language, or an utter lack of understanding of business and contractual law. In fact, he sites no specific instance of an insurance company taking a different action than they ever have in the past. It is true that having a mess outside of your home will cause you to be considered ineligible for home owners insurance. It is also true that if you have homeowners insurance, your claim might be denied for a number of reasons. For instance, if improper wiring contributed to a fire, I am pretty sure they would deny a claim. But if anything, I think that the biggest risk we face from an insurance company is that we will be unable to claim our losses due to our poor paper management skills. I am only speaking about a homeowner in their own home (which is what the article claims to be about.) In a commercial building or an apartment building, there are liability risks involved with employees or residents other than the insured being injured in the building. As I said, I do not have specific experience working with this type of insurance, so I am interested in anything anyone has to add. Also, I may not be right, but I am pretty darn sure that the author of the article is full of hot air. As far as A&E tipping off the insurance companies. I find it more likely that insurance companies already have experience of dealing with hoarders, especially if we are creating the hazards as this author suggests.  To summarize, I would take this article with a grain of salt. |
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Post by Arid on Jan 29, 2010 1:52:11 GMT -5
Well, some of you might remember that I posted about my recent experience with this sort of thing. Most of us have been living under the illusion that if we own our homes, we need not ever experience the terror of having our homes inspected in the same way that renters do. So, so, SO not true!!!!
In order to get our homeowners'--and CAR (since they were on the same policies)--insurance renewed in November, we were given a two-week notice that we HAD to submit to an inspection of our home--with pictures to be taken outside and INSIDE the premises!!! (Mind you, I didn't know ahead of time that it would be two weeks; that's just what it turned out to be.)
Well, we have a very large house. Of it, I would consider 4 and 1/2 rooms of it to be "Rooms of Doom." Stuff isn't stacked to the ceilings, but my husband has taken to referring to them delicately as "storage rooms." (Bless his heart!!!)
I knew that there was no way that I was going to get rid of all my plunder before the inspection had to take place. I did donate 100 magazines (yes; I counted!) to a mental health organization. (Yes; I see the irony in THAT, too!) That way, I honestly could say, if put on the spot, that I was clearing out the hoard. Then, I concentrated on making sure that NOTHING was blocking any doorways, stairs, or was too close to a heat source. Still, I was very seriously worried.
According to my DH, the inspector did open the doors to my "rooms of doom" to look inside them. However, the only indoors pictures that he took were of our electrical panel in the basement, one of the bathrooms, and the kitchen. The kitchen wasn't immaculate, but it wasn't filthy, either. It was in its normal "a family actually lives, cooks, and eats here" condition.
When all was said and done, the inspector complained about two things: the old wiring had been left in the walls when new electrical wiring was installed in the basement, AND our front porch needs some repairs!!!
However, even though I may have "dodged this bullet" this time around, I still feel like "they are gunning for me!" This article only serves to reinforce that feeling. I am continuing to work my way through my plunder. I recommend that everyone else does the same.
Arid
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Post by gifted on Jan 31, 2010 16:56:59 GMT -5
Arid,
The fact that you passed the inspection, and he had no interest in your storage rooms is evidence that they are not "out gunning for you." So it actually ought to be a comfort to know that they really don't care about your storage rooms.
Taking photos of the electrical panel, kitchen and bathroom sound like they are worried about electrical hazards, and perhaps plumbing, and maybe to check if you did some creative rewiring, in the event of a house fire.
Perhaps they were even checking that you were not "gutting" your house. I had read an article in the newspaper that some people who are being foreclosed on are ripping out fixtures, and selling them. And arson also increases in bad economies.
Just be careful that noone falls through the porch, in the meantime, because they would likely deny the claim, saying that you were negligent in keeping your house in good repair.
The fact is that insurance companies WANT to renew your insurance, because that is how they make their money. On the other hand, they also want to KEEP your money, and they have denied many valid claims. And will deny you insurance based on a possible risk factor.
On the other hand, if you DO know that you have bad wiring, are storing gasoline next to the stove, or have code violations, it is important to fix those, not because you will lose your insurance, but because of the risks involved.
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Post by Arid on Jan 31, 2010 19:33:26 GMT -5
I was concerned that the inspector would say that all my books, etc. were a fire hazard AND that they added too much weight.
The irony about his citing us about the front porch is that we were IN THE PROCESS of having major, MAJOR work done on a side porch!!! (It was OBVIOUS that work was being done!) We absolutely do not have the money to re-vamp the front porch right now. However, we can do a bit of painting and "sprucing up" that will make things look better. Fortunately, there is no danger of anyone falling through the porch floor.
So, yes; our insurance got renewed. HOWEVER!!!! Our rate got hiked considerably. According to the inspector and the agent, we have been underinsured for the entire time that we have lived here. They insist that we have to be insured for enough to rebuild the house to today's standards. Our house is 114 years old! It would cost a LOT to replicate it.
Arid
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Post by gifted on Jan 31, 2010 20:42:22 GMT -5
I am not sure that they would actually pay to replicate your house if it burned down. Even if they COULD replicate it.
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Post by Arid on Feb 1, 2010 0:26:37 GMT -5
We're certainly being charged for enough insurance for them to do so!!! (We feel like we are being gouged.) They told us that the house would have to be rebuilt to look like it does now.
Meanwhile, I'm praying that I never need to find out if they would pay or not. . .
Arid
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Post by CourageouslyLion SeeksSerenity on Feb 1, 2010 10:26:27 GMT -5
- There was a thread from October 2009, in which one of our members was going to have a homeowners insurance inspection soon, and she asked what to prepare for. Morninglory's October 2009 homeowners insurance inspection questions: takeonestepatatime.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=general&thread=7791I suggest not replying to the old thread, as is out of date. But ... on that thread you can read what I myself wrote about all the MANY things insurance inspectors did INSIDE the home I once owned. I'm not going to tell you where I live, for privacy reasons. But in my town, the homeowners insurance inspectors do go inside the house. The most important thing about the old thread from October:Read the reply from a member who is an insurance agent in a certain location. (I'm not going to repeat that location here, in case she later wants to edit that) She said: "They DO care about your housekeeping, they CAN cancel your HO insurance over poor housekeeping. I'm an insurance agent ... and have been for years." That is the only information that I have -- that a member who is an insurance agent in a specific location, says that homeowners insurance policies can be canceled over poor housekeeping. I replied to that post, to ask for more information, but that member does not seem to have been around since October and that was her final post. = |
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Post by gifted on Feb 1, 2010 14:34:00 GMT -5
Thanks Lion,
I wish she had been more specific. I am still inclined to believe as you did from your experience, that they are looking for things relating to claims. I enoyed reading your post. You are always such a great source of well-organized and useful information.
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