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Post by Sapphire on Oct 13, 2008 8:57:33 GMT -5
I know this might be hard for some people to admit. Some may be too embarrassed. Some may just feel it's no-one else's business. But I am so curious (for curious, perhaps read nosy!!  ) to find out what degrees of squalor people are battling. Or which they have dealt with. I myself am fighting with third degree. And although I know it doesn't matter what different degrees we are at, we are all in this together and support each other equally, how big or small the problem, but I really would find it interesting and comforting to know what degrees other people are fighting with, if you're willing to share.  |
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Post by threeg on Oct 13, 2008 9:53:56 GMT -5
At one point, my house was a contained 4th degree. I say contained because I had no running water and had to flush the toilet with a 5 gallon bucket. Because of that, it wasn't flushed every day. The 3rd degree was hard enough as I had 3 cats who were old and sick and peed and pooped outside the box most of the time, but when the water stopped and I had no money to dig a new pipe outside from the well to the house, I felt doomed. I lived like that for many years. After selling my home and moving, I found Squalor Survivors. Then I started on my road to where I am now. Zero to a high one degree, with my spare room a level two. Remember what CanDo says..... 3G |
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Post by morningglory on Oct 13, 2008 9:56:35 GMT -5
Funny you should ask this, because I was just browsing around, reviewing the "degrees" and also looking at the images that you are supposed to match your mess to (which I had never seen before), pondering where I have been, where I am now, etc.
I have been as far as 4th degree, but the only "human feces" was residue from a sewage overflow in my basement that wasn't completely cleaned up. It wasn't anything visibly identifiable or smelly. I just knew that there must be at least small amounts in the general residue that hadn't been washed or sanitized.
Since then I have sanitized and cleaned the basement in various ways. But I think there probably is still some residue in parts of the basement bathroom that haven't been fully gotten to. (We have not used that bathroom since the overflow, several years ago.) I have poured bleach and other disinfectants onto the bathroom floor, but I believe there are places I haven't reached. At this point, however, whatever was there must be pretty well broken down to the point that I no longer consider it "human feces". Nevertheless, my dream at this point is to have that whole makeshift bathroom disassembled and thrown away (just leaving the plumbing, itself, in place, so it could be rebuilt at some future time.)
The rest of my home has fluctuated between 1st degree and 3rd at various times, with some rooms being worse than others. Last year things were pretty out of hand, as I was working full-time in addition to trying to take care of a large family, including several kids who were struggling with academic and emotional issues that required a lot of my time and energy. So I quit work last December to focus on them and on desqualoring.
Things haven't progressed as quickly as I'd hoped, but they are better. Whereas before we definitely had to pick our way through the rooms, with junk covering every surface, including the floors, we now have lots of visible floor space in the living room, a relatively clean bathroom, only a medium pile of dirty dishes at any given time, and a dining table that is cleared and cleaned at least once per day.
Right now, looking at the images, my living room looks like a 3, as does my kitchen, but my bedroom is more like a 4. Translating that into "degrees", I'd say my house averages a 2, if you don't count mouse droppings that are in all the hidden areas. If you do, then it's a 3.
But I have a little trouble matching up with "second degree" (and the degree scale in general) because already at that point I refuse to let people in the house, or have tradespeople come in. If there is actual trash laying around (empty packaging, old paper plates, old newspapers), or if there is visible dirt on the walls, floor, or furniture/appliances, that's too embarrassing to deal with, even without anything rotting. (That's what I'm battling with, in order to have the plumber come fix the furnace and bathroom sink clog.)
I don't think there is any actual rotting food in the house, but I must admit that when I do major cleanings in my children's rooms, I do sometimes come across a piece of fruit or other food they have left there (YUCK!). Also, there are actual smaller pieces of non-rotting food strewn on the kitchen and dining room floors. Things like dried noodles, pieces of cereal, pretzels, scraps of stuff that falls from the table or stove. We do sweep these floors at least once per day, but the clutter piled up makes it hard to see everything (things get pushed behind and between boxes and so forth). Also, new things get dropped every day! I hate this aspect of our squalor, especially. Also because it contributes to the mouse problem.
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Post by metamorpha on Oct 13, 2008 10:20:50 GMT -5
Degree information can be found at Squalor Survivors. (Please remember, the owner does not want us copy and pasting her text here. Thanks everybody.) My entryway, stairway, and music room are level 0-1. Everything else is a 2 or 3.  While I feel guilty saying that, I will add this ... a few months ago I had a break-through. Someone mentioned how waiting until things were filthy and then cleaning it up gave them a boost of being exceptional. Wowing people with their progress. I recognized that in myself and have made a conscious effort to focus on maintenance. Slowly, but surely. I clean up a little of the big mess each day while keeping the cleaned up areas clean. It may not be spotless right away but I am so hopeful this might be my key to getting clean, and staying that way.  |
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Post by Sapphire on Oct 13, 2008 10:51:32 GMT -5
Thanks everyone for being so open and honest. I'm finding this really interesting and helpful.  |
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Post by minball on Oct 13, 2008 11:36:26 GMT -5
At the worst, I was at level 4. I was living on my own and very sick at the time. I had repeatedly vomited into the space between my bed and the wall, and I was too ill and weak to clean it up. I was also unable to carry soiled bed linens to the laundry, so I would just push it off the end of the bed onto the floor. It was disgusting. Trash, spoiled food and clutter were piled up on every surface, but somehow I managed to keep the cat's litter boxes scooped and clean even through the worst of it. The fact that my cats utterly depended on me for their comfort and survival was the only thing that got me out of bed on some days.
Before my then-fiance, now husband came to help me clean and pack to move in with him, I somehow managed to clean up all of the human waste and much of the rotting food. He thought he had seen the state I was living in, but in reality he had never seen the worst of it. Only recently - several years later - have I been able to admit that my living situation then was worse than he knew. I still haven't been able to share all the details.
After that, my husband and I shared our apartment with another couple after his previous roommate moved out. There, our bedroom was at a level 0-0.5, and I worked very hard to keep the common areas at a level 1. If I went away for even a weekend, I would return to a level 2-3 in the common areas. Our roommate's bedroom was at a level 3 or 4. This living situation was incredibly stressful, because I was terrified of living in squalor again. I did all of the cleaning, because my husband refused to clean up after our roommates. When he would complain about how disgusting they were, I would feel terrible because I used to live like that and I was irrationally afraid if he found out, he wouldn't like me anymore. I think I cried myself to sleep every night during our last month of living there.
(I want to emphasize that this living situation was so challenging not because our roommates were messy, but because they acted entitled and disrespectful in many other ways. I still struggle with perfectionism and hoarding tendencies, and I don't want anyone here to feel like I might be judging them for being messy now that I have cleaned up my own living space.)
About a year and a half ago, my husband and I moved so I could go back to school. It was a little rough at first, because we had never worked out a good household dynamic due to the challenges of our previous living situation. My husband wanted me to prompt him whenever a chore needed to be done, but I did not want to be the chore police. I have MS, so my energy level varies. Giving my husband a list of tasks was a chore in itself, and if I was feeling poorly, it took time and attention away from my schoolwork and other responsibilities. My husband had been raised with the idea that women are innately sensitive to mess and dirt, while guys aren't able to notice those things on their own. Now he admits that housekeeping is a learned skill that he had just never bothered to acquire until now.
Right now, I am happy to say that our house is at a level 0-0.5 - when I was at my lowest point, I never imagined that this was possible! I do most of the cleaning and yardwork when I am feeling well, and my husband takes care of everything when I am going through a tough patch. It works out to be about 50-50. We have pets, but no children. This makes maintenance much easier for us than it is for families with kids. While I am no longer living in squalor, I am aware that my experiences with squalor will always inform the way I approach housework, and I appreciate the supportive environment and creative ideas that people share on this board.
Metamorpha, one thing I like about this place is that people are supportive even if you aren't doing what my grandmother used to call "Cinderella cleaning." I mean, if I am having a bad day but I manage to do some laundry anyhow, that gets recognized as an accomplishment instead of being taken for granted, even if my house is mostly clean. That's a big deal to me, and something I really appreciate.
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Post by notsomessyshell on Oct 13, 2008 11:41:37 GMT -5
Worst was level 3. I too, had a sick kitty who had "issues". Now we hover at 2. The kitchen is now clean! And we have kept it there.  . Living room is almost 2, but getting better. Closer to 1! Entryway room is a 2. Boxes, piles of papers, and stuff. There is a couch in there somewhere. My bedroom is 1. Hubby's side is closing in on 2. If he does not get to it soon the pile on his side will take over the bed. I can't wait until he leaves for hunting. I am going through that stuff! The closet is getting done, too. Bathroom is clean! Anyone could use it and would not care. Of course they can't because they have t go through the messy bedroom.  . Back bathroom is a 1 due to the laundry piled up. I forgot to get softener. I bought soap instead. Duh. Will have the lau Sndry done tonight. The cat box will be scooped tonight by oldest. But sink, toilet and bathtub are clean. Need to finish the flooring. Had to remove the tiles due to a water leak. Hubby finally got all the old glue off. Now I have to decide what I want in there. Oldest son has the cleanest room in the house. He has done so since we moved here 4 years ago. His room in the old house was a 3. When we moved and he got his own room he made the choice to keep it clean. And he keeps it that way. I am proud of him for that. Now he has to help keep the rest of the house clean. It was like since I was not cleaning it gave him permission to be messy everywhere else. Youngest has a level 1 now too. Hubby has stuff in there, too.  But no filth, just clutter. And toys. Too many toys. I boxed some up and they are going to goodwill. I need to go through his clothes one more time and then out it all goes to them. They are coming for some furniture too. I don't have the time or energy to have a yard sale or Craig list them. What got me to see the level 3 was a mouse ran across my living room, right in front of me. In broad daylight. It was nesting in the recliner! Oh my G that was the worst moment. I had a mouse. It was living where we lived. I looked around maybe for the first time acknowledging how far we had sunk. My oldest and I started right then. Got traps and set them everywhere. Started picking up all food and food stuffs that were out. (Read: Garbage everywhere!). I also went to the doc for help with my depression. That was when we started climbing out. 3 months later we are mouse free! I cleaned the chair, but could not get over the fact it had been in it. When it went to the dumpster last night it was like we really had started over! While I do miss the kitty we lost, I am so glad to not have the kitty crap everywhere. It was gross and another really low for me. But now I am on the right path! I think I found this and Squalor Survivors just at the right time. Now I am ready to do this. With all your support I can do it! |
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Post by ivorytower on Oct 13, 2008 13:36:34 GMT -5
I suppose my worst has been a high level 2. I don't have pets which I'm sure is the reason things have never gone higher than a 2. I'm not a hoarder and have no emotional attachment to most of my stuff but I do allow things to accummulate.
If I'm very absorbed in something like reading, researching or writing, my physical surroundings become less noticeable and I'm focused only on what I'm engaged in. I barely notice the mess building up. I used to have more physical energy and agility and could clear and clean back to an acceptable standard fairly quickly. It takes longer now.
Disrepair has been my biggest problem in recent years. I've been too embarrased by my messy home to allow people in to carry out repairs and improvements (despite the fact that these are free of charge to me) . I recently allowed someone in to repair the heating system and spent days preparing for this. I felt I had to have everything, not just clean but freshly decorated and looking 'normal'. I didn't achieve this but it was good enough for me to feel OK about someone coming in. I now have running hot water again and find it hard to believe that I lived without this for so long - I think it may have been 2 years.
I was getting everwhere down to level 0 but have allowed the mess to creep back to I suppose level 0.5 to 1. I have some wallpapering to finish. Two or three weeks ago I mixed the paste to make some more progress with this and it has gone hard in the bowl. It won't take me long to finish the decorating and I don't know why i just leave it. I am busy with other things now and have had some other problems to deal with but even so there has been time to finish what I started.
Generally speaking I feel better about myself and more in control than I did before I joined Squalor Survivors and now SOS. I take inspiration from people who are coping with extreme situations, especially hopehope and lilith.
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Post by heylady1 on Oct 13, 2008 14:27:24 GMT -5
I guess you could say I have hidden squalor. Common areas of the house have always been at 0 to 0.5. Our bedroom always seems to hover from 0.5 to 1. My son's bedroom was a definite 3 but is now a 1 (I'm so proud of him!!). I am not including any closets or drawers in the house as they are all between 0 and 2....some are stuffed to the gills while the one closet I've gone through isn't too bad. Some drawers are packed while others are neat. Laundry room was at least a 2 but is now a 1 although it still needs to be organized better. The shed outside was a definite 3 because of rat droppings but now it's at a 1. The back porch which is covered and sheltered from wind/rain has gone from a heavy 2 to a 0 and back again. Then cleaned up, then back. You get the idea! Right now it's clean but.... I hoard things. Anything that still works, or is still usable is fair game to me. It can be anything from magazines to playstation 2 systems (we have 3). I have a real problem with letting things go that we might need sometime in the future. I'm also pretty good about hiding my hoard but it's not something I think you can really be proud of you know?  When we had our house, the garage there was crammed full. In the tiny little trailer we ended up in, all the cabinets/closets were full and could barely close. We even had a storage unit that we really couldn't afford. So the hoard has always been hidden away. My housekeeping in the common areas is so-so. I'm good about cleaning up the kitchen but not so good about cleaning the bathroom. I'm pretty good about sweeping up the dog hair or vacuuming but not so good on dusting. I also have a collectors mentality. Not cute little glass figurines but animals. I have to watch myself constantly on this. In the past I started "collecting" cats but I ended up giving them all away when I realised I could no longer afford to care for them or had the time for them anymore. Right now I am into fish which means I have 7 aquariums in my home. I have made the decision to not get anymore fish or tanks and when the fish I already have die, they will not be replaced. Eventually I want to get down to 1 tank. We also have 1 canary and 1 dog. Thank god I have not had the urge or whatever to start collecting dogs.... It's because of this site that I've seen progress with my hoarding issues. Collecting issues too. It's been a real wake up call for me and I can't tell you how much I appreciate it!!  |
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mayqueen
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Joined: May 2008
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Post by mayqueen on Oct 13, 2008 14:28:23 GMT -5
At it's worst my house was a level 3. Since my kitty passed away, it hasn't gone any higher than level 2. Right now it's at a high level 1 or low level 2. I've gotten it down to 0 a few times, but between working full-time and going to school in the evenings, I don't have a lot of time and energy for maintenance.
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Post by megtreb on Oct 13, 2008 14:39:14 GMT -5
From reading the degrees of squalor description over on the old site (thanks for the link, Metamorpha), I guess I am at a level 1, because I still have the use of all my rooms and household functions. But it sure feels worse than that to me. I would describe my place as an awful mess most of the time, and it drives me crazy. I am embarrassed, but I do let people in, including plumbers and etc. So everything works. But we have WAY too much stuff, and my husband has hoarding tendencies, which makes it really hard to declutter. We have 5 metal storage shelves in the basement which are full of nothing but old computer equipment for which we have no use, and which haven't been touched in 11 YEARS, but which we can't get rid of. When I try to discuss it with him he has gotten very upset. We could really, really use the space to store stuff we do need, which has no place to go right now. Too be fair, though, I think he is really making progress overcoming his hoarding tendencies lately, and has been willing to let stuff go, and even sometimes says, "I guess we don't really need this, do we?" Hooray! And of course, I have to take some blame for the mess too. Can you believe this -- I am a stay at home housewife, no job, we have no children, and I STILL can't keep the place clean! I can only imagine what it would be like if I a had a job. I don't feel like I have demand resistance, I do have depression, but it's under control, I don't have ADD, I am fairly good at organizing, so I guess the only thing I can blame it on is either the dreaded "L-word", or my health problems. I am seriously overweight (275 lbs) and badly out of shape, and I just run out of steam so quickly. Plus I have some kind of problem with joint pain (doctors swear it's not rhuematoid arthritis, but I wonder) and there are days when I really ache all over. I can't kneel or squat or even bend over easily, and after I do certain jobs I have to sit down until my back stops hurting. So it seems like I can only get one or two things done in a day, and that's just not enough. Oh well, I guess I just introduced myself. I hope no one minds that this post is so long.  |
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Post by morningglory on Oct 13, 2008 15:03:09 GMT -5
Here's what gets me. I used to be a hoarder, for sure. I had all those urges that Heylady1 deescribes--saving anything and everything that might come in handy, might be valuable, or could maybe be pressed into some other use, "someday". I had the Great Depression mentality--what if someday we have no money and no income. We will need all the clothes, furniture, toys, household gadgets we can get, either to use as is, or to burn for fuel! Haha!
I was also a huge information hoarder--forever filing away articles, handouts, brochures, catalogs, notes, etc. The internet has helped me cut down on that considerably.
Over the years I have DRASTICALLY and DRAMATICALLY reduced any of those tendencies. There are only a few little areas that I occasionally find myself feeling afraid to let go of some item. (A few months ago this community helped me as I struggled to throw away a hand-me-down dress that my daughter had already worn for 2 years and that had holes in it!)
But, even though I am almost the reverse of a hoarder when it comes to lots of things (e.g., I HATE seeing real trash laying around, such as wrappers or packaging, and feel compelled to get rid of it ASAP), I still have a tendency to end up with a huge accumulation of things in complete disarray all over the house! I have trouble keeping my stuff organized and in place. I have trouble determining places for things. I have trouble sorting through the things that accumulate in my "hot spots". I just really struggle to keep up with everything.
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Post by Rennie Ellen on Oct 13, 2008 15:04:14 GMT -5
Sapphire,
Right now this is where things stand:
Bathroom and Kitchen are stage 1/2.
Living Room and Bedroom are almost stage 2.
I also have a carport storage room and a rented storage unit that I need to sort through. I want to get the carport storage room organized and clear out the storage unit entirely to save that $30 a month. With my physical challenges, I'll probably need help with the storage areas.
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Post by threeg on Oct 13, 2008 15:37:30 GMT -5
I forgot to add that my dining room is a level 2. Mostly because we have boxes here that need to go to the attic, and a new stove sitting near the door waiting to be installed. (It has been sitting there for a year though. ) I just don't have the money and manpower to get it installed. 3G |
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Post by phoebepj on Oct 13, 2008 15:37:54 GMT -5
I'll begin by giving a little background on myself. I've always had a tendency to be messy and disorganized since childhood, but thanks to my mother always prodding me to clean my room, my bedroom at home never got above 0-0.5 I was not allowed to be messy in my parents house. When I moved out and went to college for 4 years, staying in a dorm room by myself (I was one of the few that didn't really experience roommates in college, so I wasnt forced to be clean all the time, plus my college was a bit of a "hippie" college where not shaving and wearing long skirts and eating granola was the norm so I didn't feel out of place, however the place did make me feel guilty for creating trash - it was a very eco friendly college. In my dorm room, it never really got above a level 1 bordering on a level 2 and as the years progressed, my accumulation of "stuff" got less and less and it was a manageable level 0-0.5 when I left college and started my life in the real world. At my worst, I was a severe 2 with the bathroom being a hardcore level 3 (cat poo and pee all over the floor and clothes on the floor of the bathroom) I had severe depression and self worth issues following a job that caused lots of psychological damage. That contributed to my severe state of squalor after college. I was on my own, in a different state (my parents in NH, I'm in GA) and I simply stopped caring. From May 2004 till July 2004 - I lived with a roommate who was a clean freak. I managed to keep my squalor contained to my bedroom, and most of my "squalor" was clothes on the floor. When my roommate moved out in July, leaving me to have the apartment all to myself, it all kinda exploded, but it exploded slowly. I obtained a cat and had a complication of the litter to deal with. From July to September 2004 - I was hardly ever home due to my psychological hellish job so the place never got bad (level 1) until October 2004 - I still had issues removing garbage from the place. My folks came to visit Nov 2004 and I did a power clean stuffing garbage in boxes and hiding it outside in the front hall, with the hopes my folks wouldnt go out the front door and find the boxes and a bag of used cat litter. I also hid dirty dishes and clothes in the closet of my office which had become my bedroom temporarily while my parents stayed here. (That stuff sat out there and the dishes and clothes sat in the closet until April 2007) I fell into a severe depression when they left and simply stopped caring about my place. A friend came to visit in June 2005, where I did another dash and stash, only this time it was mostly in my bedroom that I hid items. Somehow I managed to remove all trashbags, and somewhat clean out my fridge (which died shortly thereafter in August 2005) I think she had some idea of how I lived, but I was too afraid to say anything. The closet that the catbox was in had become saturated with uncleaned cat litter and pee and poo all soaking into the carpet. It was nasty and I'm sure smelled like cat urine all over the place. I accumulated a second cat. After she left, I stopped cleaning. I moved the catbox to the bathroom because the carpet in the closet was bad and the bathroom floor is tile and easier to clean up after. From June 2005- Feb 2006, I had no refrigerator. The stuff in it had rotted. My apartment was a low level 2 with a level 3 bathroom. I did do a couple dash and stashes when I needed to let repair guys in and when they brought in a new refrigerator. My AC quit working in August 2006, so I needed to let the repair guy in. I was stepping over cat poo and urine in the bathroom just to get a shower, I was picking my way across the dirty nasty floor. My office was buried in waist deep trash, half filled trash bags, fully filled trash bags in an attempt (failed) to clean up. My bedroom became a storage for the "dash and stash" incidents - neglected trash bags never looked at again. God how did I get here?! In April 2007, something clicked inside me. I looked around and decided I didn't want to live in filth anymore. I cleaned up that entire week of Easter Vacation. I bagged up everything that was obvious trash. I stacked bags in rooms. I had stacks that were 6 ft high and 8 feet deep in corners and sides of all 3 rooms in my apartment. I bleached the bathroom floor and removed and tossed all urine soaked items. I went from a severe level 2-3 to a level 1 in one week. Over the course of 7 months, I slowly threw out all the trash bags. I kept a "death count" and at one point, my personal count of bags removed had added up to over 130 bags. I even got rid of the boxes that had been sitting since 2004! By the time my parents came in November 2007, the apartment was actually a level 0 in most places. They helped me push my apartment to a true level 0. I've kept it that way for a year.. usually hovering between a level 0 to a level 1... but the level 1 is NOT trash. Its laundry. All trash now gets bagged up and removed at some point. Its been an exhausting process for me and I hope someone can learn from my experience. |
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