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Post by razy on Dec 27, 2022 16:15:02 GMT -5
Hello Nael_C. What an interesting and insightful thread! Thanks ((((( def6))))) for the tag! Well, you've hit the nail on the head with the Buddha quote you chose, that mind is everything and the only thing there is. Our world - all of our joy and suffering - is created in our mind, we truly are what we think we are, we feel what we think we are feeling, we live life in the way we think life should be lived. Buddha goes much further than this to say that there is no true external world; it's an illusion fed by our judgements, beliefs, and personal narratives. He also has much to say about expectations and the suffering that holding them closely can bring. Expectations spring from desires, and desires are a type of bondage. Yes, even the 'good' desires, yes, even the ones that do ultimately bring a transitory happiness. But desires and expectations, if dashed or not realized, can bring about a despair, and yes, even that is transitory IF we can let go easily, if we haven't bound our identity with it, if we are able to accept the fundamental truths that what is IS, and that everything changes. Truly, these truths do set one free. And there is no such thing as joy-on-demand. Joy is a gift that we can learn to be open to receive when it comes. It's a suffusion that begins in the heart and often has no traceable immediate cause. The same thing can be said of genuine peace and gratitude. They can't be orchestrated, or maneuvered, they are gifts of the highest order. The advice I would give you is to practice sense mindfulness with every task. EXPERIENCE every movement, every sight, every sound, every touch, every taste as you go about the work. This puts the busy and resistant mind on 'hold' so to say, and gives it a much-needed break. Thoughts will break in, negative ones, harsh and judgmental ones and you simply turn your full attention back to the real-time sense experience of what is at hand. This does take some practice but as you begin to live in the moment and not in your mind you will begin to feel the natural flow that is always with us at all times under our thoughts, under our narratives. This can rest your mind to such a degree that you will spontaneously gain insights into your situation and ways to deal with it with patience, kindness to yourself and others, and success. And then, you will be open to joy.  Don't give up, and don't give in to despair and anger with your circumstances. Use your circumstances to hand you the lessons you need to learn to live life more fully. Accept your situation as it is and let the energy that went into resistance and opposition swing back into the energy you need to go forward with your goals!  *Snap We must have been writing these posts at the same time
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Post by Nael_C on Dec 27, 2022 18:44:47 GMT -5
mynicehome, so much food for thought in your beautiful, serene post. Thank you, I am going to try and work with your advice and let go of expectations. Not only I have expectations, but I am hard on myself, a harsh critic when I don't fulfil those. razy, last week a relative came in unexpected to bring something. His eyes were examining the place, he was looking around like a hawk, and I knew what he was saying inside. That look and his examining my surroundings gave me such shame. I felt I never wanted him to come over to my house again. Never again. It felt like someone punched me in the stomach. And that is a punishment, and there comes the harsh critic, that repeats the insults people are thinking, not saying but eyes have their own way of speaking, I repeat those insults towards me. I internalize that shame and it obliterates my self esteem. So, a lack of punishment could go a long way in this place! I would never treat another person like I treat myself. Why can't I get rid of expectations and the punishment I inflict? And now, as you said, I will let go of the talk, and I will go and clean the sink!
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Post by mouseanne on Dec 27, 2022 19:01:27 GMT -5
So, some time ago (weeks-2 months?) I was softening butter. Attention turned (doesn't it always) too soon to the next step, and spatter spatter, all over the microwave.
To use the microwave, and be able to take the plate-to-be-heated out & use it, and not get butter grease everywhere, I put a plate on top of the turntable.
I've been working on the kitchen, and did dishes several times this weekend (5 day weekend Thur-Mon). I cleaned the microwave. Saturday or so. Also Saturday, I made sausage (what I had) vegetable soup, used up 4 cans & a freezer packet.
Sunday, I was eating the rest of the soup. Heating it in the microwave. A little glass dish, with a lid, but because it was small, it was light, and when the soup popped, up popped the lid. Splat.
y-up...1 day later, dirty microwave.
The old me, would have been annoyed. It would have stayed dirty several more weeks. Punishing the microwave? I think not.
When I did dishes Sunday, I cleaned the microwave.
No real reward, no fireworks, no trumpet. No pat on the back, good job, honey. I live alone. Even if I had a honey, unlikely he'd say that, anyway, no?
The microwave is clean. That's how I like it. And when something spatters, it's 5 min to clean it again.
I think part of the angst of "there's no reward," is that most of what we do accomplish is a drop in the ocean, and there is just so much remaining to do. We could give ourself an attagirl/boy, but if we are immediately berating ourself for how much is undone as yet, it wipes away the good feeling, instantly, before you've had time to enjoy the moment, if it happened at all.
So, I did all the dishes. Is the kitchen clean? Well, no. It is time to mop again. Really? I just mopped it, um, last weekend. There's that piled section of the counter, 3-4 months now? But, I did some bits of that corner this weekend, and it is better than it was. Trash day, so I did a fridge dump. The fridge needs washed out. Even the dishes aren't done, because of the things that came out of the fridge.
Done things. Don't stay done. But, we have to keep doing them. Even if we feel NOTHING. Like Arid said, just cuz.
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Post by Nael_C on Dec 27, 2022 19:15:14 GMT -5
Yes! I love the microwave example! And you are right mouseanne , instead of seeing what I manage to finish, I see the whole of the picture and my accomplishment, is immediately lost in the chaos. I have to learn to see the small differences, appreciate them, and I have to learn to envision the space after many small differences have been applied. Maybe I lack this ability to imagine the outcome and this makes feel stack in the now picture. And even for this, if I want to build the ability, I have to go through the process. Hash the inner critic, has the voice of the relative in my head, remove the internal obstacles, get rid of those and then the work will find a meaning. mouseanne , I also took notice of your signature, that you are not naturally joyful. Neither am I. I love how your signature reminds you of those qualities and uplifts you.
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Post by skatters on Jan 1, 2023 21:51:01 GMT -5
Hi Nael_C - admittedly I haven't read all of the replies (my attention span is limited tonight) but I have the same problem you've described. The first thing that came to my mind is something to make it fun for you while doing the chore. For me, it's listening to an audiobook or podcast. Or, if I am feeling exceptionally energetic I turn on music and sort of "dance" my way to chores (this works well for folding and putting away laundry). I also gamify my chores, dice game, bingo, chat, beat the clock, etc.
Since I am not enjoying the outcome much, I have find things to do to enjoy the process!
Oh, I also tend to jump on cleaning lady bandwagons, and they last until they don't anymore - but things almost always get better! Like Flylady, Side-tracked home executives, squalor survivors, KC Davis, blogging here, and my biggest help has been the chat that was found here years ago and a regular accountability partner!
Good luck!
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Post by imamess on Jan 2, 2023 0:10:14 GMT -5
I've tried a little of everything to motivate myself. I hate housework and was punished as a child by being made to wash dishes. I hated it then, I still do. I rarely finish washing dishes but the rare times that I do, it makes me smile when I go into the kitchen and it's easy to cook a meal because everything is clean. I've finally gotten to the point that I don't mind folding clothes and am more consistent lately. It's not joy, but I don't hate it either. It's just done and the process wasn't too bad. You just have to keep at it no matter what the feeling is or even lack of feeling - just do it.
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Post by notanotherdecade on Jan 2, 2023 18:30:18 GMT -5
I take my iPad around the house while doing chores, I find them dreary, but I'm less likely to actually give up if I've got a video on in the background while doing the more frustrating tasks.
➡️Even when the house still looks dire after a day's slog, I'm not actively upset because I've been able to have something to laugh at or to discover while working away
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Post by Nael_C on Jan 5, 2023 2:00:29 GMT -5
skatters, thank you for the nice suggestion. It does make it easier to hear something when working! I will also try to gamify the chores, sounds interesting1 imamess, I too was punished as a child by my mother, for doing housework (she has a hoarding disorder so whenever I tried to do something in the house, I got punished for it, which led to me fearing the housework as a result). I am sorry you had a similar bad childhood experience. Thank you for the nice suggestions and yes, I need to keep at it whatever the feelings. Keep the feelings at bay, so I can get the work done, which is important for my overall health, peace of mind and marital happiness. So many important notes I take while talking to all of you! notanotherdecade, what a nice tip the one with the ipad! Thank you! 
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Post by ohblondie on Jan 5, 2023 10:19:31 GMT -5
razy...yes - that feeling of relief! the "I am safe for now"....(until the next crisis I invent in my head)
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Post by nonchalant on Jan 15, 2023 18:43:01 GMT -5
If housework is supposed to give joy, I missed the memo. Git 'er dun, any old way you can, has been my philosophy.
When I was younger and stronger I hauled furniture around and shoveled snow. That didn't give me any joy at all, just backaches. But it needed to get done.
Ditto dusting, laundry, toilets.
Even dishes. I don't mind doing them, but I wouldn't call it joy. My favorite task, yard work in late winter/early spring, before the bugs and poison ivy emerge.... that comes close. But it's not joy.
I am not even sure what I use for motivation. Have to think about this.
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Post by Nael_C on Jan 23, 2023 7:07:14 GMT -5
Doesn't a finished task bring you some comfort, just another name for joy?
So, it may not be joyful, but at least, I remember myself being pleased with myself
when I used to finish a job, especially when it was a job that needed to be done.
I rarely feel that sense of satisfaction of getting something done these days.
And I think this may be that it gets lost in the million other pieces of work that need
finishing too.
I seem to see the whole picture instead of that little finished part that is now complete?
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Post by nonchalant on Jan 23, 2023 11:16:59 GMT -5
To me, comfort, satisfaction, and joy are different. Joy is discovering a loved one is out of danger; comfort is warmth, a nice bed and a roof over your head; satisfaction is more like, Whew, that's done.
Sometimes the finished work does bring satisfaction. Other times I am too tired to feel much.
I blame a certain author for even hinting that housework should bring joy.
Or your possessions; when I made the baaad mistake of hiring a pro organizer, she kept trying to yank my Sterno stove out of my hands and throw it away, because she was clueless as to its function. The Sterno stove doesn't bring me any joy, and maybe, thank Heaven, I don't have to use it, but when power goes out, you NEED it.
PS, now it looks like I'm splitting hairs. I've been depressed lately, maybe that's why. And I figured out what motivates me; it's three-fold.
One is habit.
Habit Example: When I can't sleep and it's ZeroDark30, I gather certain items I will need to deal with the next day.
The second is reading about housekeeping, and some of it comes from here, in previous threads that I re-read, some from Teh Innerwebz (Innerwebz Example: Making your own breakfast bowls), some from books (Book Examples: Dana K. White, Heloise's Helpful Hints).
The third may sound insulting so I'm not sure what to say, except that I grew up with a hoarder and did not want to follow in those footsteps. But it's in my blood, so I often do.
PPS: Someone just said to me, 'It (cleaning) doesn't bring joy, but it prevents misery.'
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