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Post by casper on Mar 19, 2012 22:16:43 GMT -5
I am not a hoarder or a messy but I do live with a very messy big time hoarder. After many years of trying to change his hoarding up the entire house I had to make changes here for my sanity. I boxed/bagged his stuff, labeled it as to what area of the house it came from and put the stuff in his bedroom, carport or garage. Cleaned and arranged the cleared areas and said these are now "No Clutter Zones". Any time he left anything in the livingroom, kitchen, bathroom, diningroom, porch or hall I would gather it up and put it in one of "his" areas. It took several years but he is now good about not leaving his stuff laying around in the general living areas of the house.
When I first started this project he became extremely negative and sabotaged all my efforts because he hates change. Any kind of change. He likes everything to remain the same forever. Even small changes used to upset him, like a new shower curtain or rearranging furniture. Took me a very long time to get him to understand that changes can be a good positive thing.
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Post by morningglory on Mar 20, 2012 6:45:28 GMT -5
I appreciate that so many people took the time to read my LONG message yesterday and gave me input to help figure it out. Each person who replied seemed to have another piece of the puzzle, and I think everything was relevant to my situation, to some degree. And, puppybox, I am thrilled that you were inspired by what I wrote to go tackle the shopping. Keep up the great work! Decades ago I read an article about how messiness can be a way of preventing yourself having to think about more threatening issues. It mentioned a woman who, when she finally cleaned off her desk, realized she had to divorce her husband. I thought it was so funny the way they put that, and my husband joked that at the bottom of the pile she discovered a note to herself, "Divorce husband". Over the years we have joked about that from time to time. I do think that my starting to make more progress on being able to let go of all these things that I have clung to for emotional reasons must make him think of the things that he has hoarded all over the house (but would never admit to doing). He feels very justified in keeping these things, and if he sees me trying to reason myself out of keeping my stuff, it probably confronts him with the realization that his things aren't really necessary to keep, either. In any case, you have all given me some great food for thought and have reinforced my keeping on track with the aggressive tossing. Didn't get a whole lot of that done yesterday, as I reported, but should have more time for it today. Already this morning I tossed out some more cardboard from the kitchen corner pile and looked a little below the surface to get an idea what I am dealing with back there. Looks like books (one of my weaknesses), the very ironic hoard of housecleaning and home improvement items (multiple vacuum cleaners of various sizes, paint and associated products, etc.), and other stuff I can't figure out yet. Oh, I also got rid of another thing from the kitchen pile--a partial box of matzah from last year!!
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Post by morningglory on Mar 20, 2012 11:20:33 GMT -5
Work on kitchen pile - I just grabbed and disposed, without contemplating:
1) Two vacuums - Grabbed them, threw them in my car, took them to the donation box.
2) Overdue library book - Threw it in the car, too, along with several other overdue books we found when we cleaned up the living room on Saturday. Got them in the drop box before the library opened this morning, saving an additional day of fines for the stack of them.
3) Various jackets and coats (that got hung up on pegs, then fell down into the pile) - Threw them into the laundry basket (or hung in closet, if clean looking.
OK. Now I need a kick in the pants. Because I am circling the pile and thinking about how to deal with it, but I feel that I am putting off actually completing the process.
Please help with suggestions on how to attack that junk with the toss-it-all mentality!
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Post by casper on Mar 20, 2012 14:06:33 GMT -5
O H I O Only Handle It Once.... Tackle that pile by picking up an item and quickly decide if it is a toss, a donate or a keep. Have boxes, hampers or bags right at hand labeled "Toss" "Donate" "Keep". Put the item into the proper container. Keep doing this till you see all the floor. Take "toss" "donate" out of the house immediately after. Take all "keep" and put the items where they belong. Laundry to hamper, papers to desk, toys to toy box, etc... Get "donate" to recipient A.S.A.P.
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Post by dayeanu on Mar 20, 2012 15:51:42 GMT -5
Work on kitchen pile - I just grabbed and disposed, without contemplating: 1) Two vacuums - Grabbed them, threw them in my car, took them to the donation box. 2) Overdue library book - Threw it in the car, too, along with several other overdue books we found when we cleaned up the living room on Saturday. Got them in the drop box before the library opened this morning, saving an additional day of fines for the stack of them. 3) Various jackets and coats (that got hung up on pegs, then fell down into the pile) - Threw them into the laundry basket (or hung in closet, if clean looking. OK. Now I need a kick in the pants. Because I am circling the pile and thinking about how to deal with it, but I feel that I am putting off actually completing the process. Please help with suggestions on how to attack that junk with the toss-it-all mentality! Set your timer for 8 minutes and pick up the first thing!
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Post by CourageouslyLion SeeksSerenity on Mar 20, 2012 21:55:45 GMT -5
One thing that has added to my stress level is that I feel a bit sabotaged by my husband. I know it's not intentional, but he has said and done several things that would normally have discouraged me. In this case I am so motivated that it hasn't put me off, but it still seems to have taken its toll. For one thing, when I told him how I was so glad to have made the step of getting rid of things that were difficult to part with, like the cat's medical records, he suggested that we get a scanner and scan in things like that. I know he was well-intentioned with that comment, but it was exactly what I DON'T need--encouragement to take extra time picking out things to scan, taking the time to scan them, taking the time to label them in such a way that I will be able to find them on the computer. Especially when it is almost certainly the case that I will NEVER need to refer to medical records of a cat that passed away in 1996! (I mean, if it took zero time or effort or money to do it, like if some Brownie could scan them in for me while I sleep at night, then I guess it would be nice just to have it available.) Anyway, I would have appreciated a response that was more supportive of my accomplishment, rather than encouraging me to keep hoarding. Second, he offered to run a stack of documents through our pathetic little shredder for me, but as he did, he examined each sheet and finally found one that he tried to get me to save. It was the title to a vehicle that had been totalled two years ago, and it was an old title that had been replaced because I had changed my name. I gave the real title to the insurance company when they paid me for the vehicle. But to him it must have screamed, "OFFICIAL DOCUMENT - RETAIN"! I really didn't like him going back over things I had already determined to get rid of. Third, when my daughter and I spent all those hours cleaning up the living room on Saturday, we collected together all his clothing and put it into a basket for him to put away. (It's already very trying for me that he had such a big, overflowing basket worth of clothes strewn around the living room, because his constant refrain is that the children are the ones messing everything up and refuses to see his own very major contribution.) Anyway, he has left that basket sitting there, with the stuff falling out onto the floor and hasn't put any of it away yet. But the thing that was hardest to deal with was his attitude toward the file boxes I had out on the floor. For months and months, until we cleaned it up on Saturday, the living room was jam-packed with baskets of clothes, trash, books, papers, shoes, and a big bunch of my husband's electronics and work-related items (briefcases, etc.) It was very unpleasant. After we cleaned up, I stacked my file boxes over to the side of the room, out of the middle of the floor, with the intention of beginning to toss again the next day. Sunday morning, before I began to go through the boxes, he acted aggravated every time he stepped through the two-foot space between the boxes and my chair (he could have gone around, as there is an alternate route into the room, although it would have been less convenient). Finally, he told me that it was making him *angry* every time he passed through that area and he wanted me to know how upset he was about it. So I did move things over to make more room (partially blocking the other entrance, which of course he then tried to pass through and got aggravated about). I am bothered that we have been living with a trash pit living room all this time and as soon as I begin to make it nice, he gets actually angry about the inconvenience while I am in process. Also, he was asking me what my plans are for my file consolidation, meaning do I intend to get rid of one of the file cabinets, etc. It's not that that is so awful for him to wonder, but to me if feels like pressure. I have no freakin' idea what it will turn out to be. It's possible I might get rid of a cabinet, or I might use it to store the kids' memorabilia boxes or whatever. But the main thing is I CANNOT THINK ABOUT THAT RIGHT NOW. Right now it's taking all I've got to toss this stuff, without having to stop and think about the next step. In general, I see that he has some of his own hoarding going on, although he will NEVER acknowledge it, and would feel very criticized if I were to point out all the electronic equipment and packaging material and old manuals and all the other junk that is in the basement and garage and attic and living room and dining room and kitchen and bedroom because he refuses to let me throw it away, even though he hasn't touched 99% of it for YEARS. Plus the enormous amount of clothing and shoes he owns, even though he claims he doesn't have anything to wear and that the kids keep stealing his clothes. I finally decided that I would just focus mainly on my stuff and the kids' stuff, then deal with his once everything else is gone. Additionally, I think he is not currently sensitive to my issues, in part because he has been dealing with a lot of stress, himself, right now, so his focus is on his own issues. That's why I haven't argued or complained to him about the fact that these things are bothering me. I know he is not trying to make it hard for me and that he has his own problems right now. BUT, it really is a negative pattern that has repeated itself often over the years--I begin to make serious changes and at that precise moment he starts to criticize and get upset about the lack of progress. Now, could it be that on some level he wants things to stay as they are? Just like it is emotionally difficult for me to let go of stuff, maybe it is somehow difficult for him to see things change? Any ideas? (I'm sure this subject must have come up on this forum before.) Yes, this subject certainly has come up on this forum many times before -- through the years. I don't have any links -- mainly because I'm not married and it wasn't relevant to me ... so therefore didn't save them. There is a possiblity that your increase in activity ... might feel to him like you're nagging him to act (even though you aren't) so he's subconsciously irritated in reaction. There was a recent thread that was sort of on a different topic altogether ... but ... my replies to that thread may or may not have something to do with your situation. takeonestepatatime.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=general&thread=17397--
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Post by Deleted on Mar 21, 2012 16:43:32 GMT -5
Please help with suggestions on how to attack that junk with the toss-it-all mentality! 1. Grab garbage bag and plastic gloves, sit or stand next to said pile. 2. Most important step: envision your house the way you want it to be. Envision it clean and with no squalor or clutter. Envision the freedom you will feel when this squalor is gone, and how your kids will thrive and learn good habits for their own future homes. Envision yourself worthy of such a clean space. Envision yourself as a bud bursting forth from the earth despite the clutter of last autumn's leaves, and see yourself blooming into the flower of your true self. A NEW DAY HAS COME. 3. Gird your mind with armor....commit yourself to doing whatever it takes to achieve your vision in #2. 4. Pick up first item you see, throw it in garbage. Continue on until pile is done. 5. Applaud yourself that you, my dear, are DOING IT. You are getting yourself out of squalor!! Feel the POWER you have....and how the "stuff" holds no power. Repeat step #2 as often as needed.
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Post by CourageouslyLion SeeksSerenity on Mar 21, 2012 16:46:34 GMT -5
Feel the POWER you have....and how the "stuff" holds no power. ^^^ This!
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Post by morningglory on Mar 21, 2012 17:40:32 GMT -5
casper, dayeanu, Hurricane, and Courageously, all of these suggestions are fantastic and really helpful to me. I took them to heart, and I plan to really attack that pile tomorrow.
Today was ultra-busy, with my driving kids around town, getting blood drawn, having brakes inspected, teaching son to drive, etc.
HOWEVER, with my attitude adjusted toward that pile, I STILL got some of it dealt with:
1) This morning I took some more of the cardboard out to the recycle bin.
and
2) There's a backstory on this one. I have a photo I took of the kitchen corner pile awhile back. (I'll try to post it here, when I figure out how to transfer it to my computer from my iPod!) I noticed that in the picture there is a blue vacuum. I wondered what happened to the vacuum, whether it had been moved or something. I asked the kids, but they didn't know. Then today, when I looked at the pile more closely, I saw that the blue vacuum was STILL THERE. It had just fallen over!
So I asked the kids whether it worked or not. There is only one room in the house with carpet--the attic where two of our boys sleep. I have spent countless hours shopping for a vacuum that will actually work yet be super-cheap. As it turns out, I just keep buying cheap vacuums that do not really work well and do not hold up. Somehow, even if this one didn't work so well, I felt like I should keep it, since there is no other upright vacuum.
But then I noticed in the upstairs hall. . .A GREEN VACUUM that I hadn't realized was there (even though I have obviously been walking right by it several times per day). I asked my daughter which one, if either, worked. She said that neither one was any good.
So I put them BOTH in the car, along with a bag of clothes and a painting that my daughter took out of her room yesterday, and dropped them off at the donation box! It felt good to get rid of those clunky things, even though I spent money on them, and even though it means the boys will have to clean their carpet with a shop vac until I can afford a decent upright. The lesson is that cheap vacuums won't work for us.
I also returned another overdue library book that turned up (not in the pile).
Now, TOMORROW WILL BE THE GLOVES ON, TOSS EVERYTHING (EXCEPT WHAT IS ESSENTIAL OR EASY TO DEAL WITH) ATTACK. I will be remembering to OHIO, setting my timer, and feeling the power! Stay tuned. . .
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Post by dayeanu on Mar 21, 2012 18:12:56 GMT -5
WTG, Morninglory!
I really had a laugh reading about your vacuums. I have an abundance, particularly those little car vacs! Yesterday I was wondering if I could even find ONE vacuum. Just about that moment, I noticed it was an upright vacuum that I'd been hanging clothes on at the foot of my bed!
I'm very proud of your determination and progress!
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Post by morningglory on Mar 23, 2012 7:02:34 GMT -5
Thank you for sharing that about the vacuums, dayeanu. You made me laugh, too! I mentioned it to my husband and he thought we must be related.
UPDATE:
Yesterday was so busy that I didn't even get time to report back to y'all. BUT I DID SET MY 8-MINUTE TIMER TO WORK ON THAT PILE, and even worked an additional few minutes after it went off. I put on the gloves and dove in. Highlights:
1) Wearing gloves not only more willing to begin attacking the pile, but it also seemed to motivate me to OHIO. Because if it was something dirty or gross, I wanted to toss it out immediately, while I had my "protection" on.
2) Found a few useful things that could immediately be put somewhere accessible. This included several tools. It seems tools are always missing around here. I no longer feel this is unusual since I saw a wall-hanging at Hobby Lobby in the shape of a saw with "Hell has no fury like a dad whose tools are missing" painted on it!
3) There was a box of wall-painting supplies that I knew was there. This is from over 4 years ago when I began painting our dining room. I spent a lot of time and effort planning the job, researching techniques and paint brands, measuring and figuring, agonizing over the selection of the colors. I got primer on 3 walls and paint on most of one wall, then got busy and had to interrupt the painting job. After a few weeks I finally removed the masking tape around the edges of the walls and put the box into the kitchen, with every intention of tackling the painting again as soon as I got a chance. Haha.
Most of the supplies are perfectly fine and will come in handy for any painting we do in the future. So I transferred those from the broken down cardboard box they were in to a plastic box with a lid, which I moved to a basement shelf. I figure I'll keep that stuff unless I end up having the whole interior of the house professionally done at some point.
But here's a dilemma for me. There are several cans of latex paint (some in that box and a few on the basement landing), and I am not sure whether it would still be useable after sitting for 4 years. About two years ago I had one of the colors shaken up at the store again so it could be used on the trim in our upstairs hall, which I was paying some people to paint. I don't know if it was their methods or whether it was the age of the paint, but it went on very unevenly, with streaks.
Plus, I'm not sure I actually like these colors. I spent a long time picking them out, but once I got the one on the wall, I wasn't so thrilled with it. I was going to stick with it, since I'd already bought it and since I had already painted a big expanse. But now that I am not even sure the paint is still good, I'm thinking it would be a good time to just take it to the hazardous waste place and when I finally get around to painting the dining room (or having it painted), select a new color then.
So, what do you think? Should I keep the paint or toss it? (Of course, by "toss it" I mean "dispose of it properly".)
4) There was an old laptop with a broken display in the pile. We hooked it up to a separate monitor and determined it to be one I had used a few years ago and had copied the data from when I got a new one. This is one of those "difficult-to-toss" categories. It is a valuable item, yet it is useless. Someone could replace the screen, but it's not worth my time or money to do so. For the moment I have to keep it until I am sure I can retrieve the data from the replacement laptop, which recently bit the dust, itself!
But, here's the great part, my husband told me that I can do whatever I want with the laptop! This means I can toss it if I want to! (Through the proper disposal site, of course!) Or give it away or sell it for parts. But the main thing is that I have his consent. Usually getting rid of electronic equipment is a big hang-up, because he says he doesn't want me to throw it away, he might fix it someday, he might use it, we could perhaps use it in some modified way--but they just end up sitting around, cluttering up places like that kitchen pile!
5) On the subject of my husband, I am delighted to say that out of nowhere yesterday he commented on how much work I've been doing in the house! He said he noticed the difference in the living room and the kitchen. One of the kids piped in with "and the basement", to which my husband said, "Yes! What's with THAT?" He had gone into the basement for the first time since I cleaned that pile up last week. I hadn't mentioned anything to him about it, so he was pleasantly surprised by the open floor space. :-)
Today is another super-busy day, but I am committed to doing at least another 8 minutes on the pile. Then tomorrow I hope to make more headway in that and other areas of the house. I plan to update here when I have conquered some more *things*.
Hoping to strengthen my TOSS IT ALL mentality. Because the more I can do that, the faster it goes. Instead of this ridiculously daunting task that I dread, it can feel like a freeing experience to just check for really essential stuff and toss the rest!
Thanks again for all your encouragement and support. It makes a big difference.
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Post by casper on Mar 23, 2012 7:36:40 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2012 10:23:25 GMT -5
Toss the paint and the laptop. The paint will not be good after sitting for four years....I had the same experience of trying to use old paint and it turned out horrible and streaky. This is the perfect opportunity to purge it all, then get colors you really like when you're ready to tackle painting again. You're doing so well girl!!!
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Post by dayeanu on Mar 23, 2012 15:23:10 GMT -5
On the laptop, you might craigslist it. My grandson is working on his A+ certification, and NEEDS computer parts. I'm sure he's not alone.
Also I'm REALLY REALLY GLAD your husband is getting on board with the program! Or at least not balking or sulking about it!
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Post by morningglory on Mar 23, 2012 15:28:08 GMT -5
dayeanu, maybe I can just send the laptop to your grandson, then? If he covers the shipping cost, I don't mind. :-)
Hurricane, I'm taking your advice and tossing the paint (and laptop, if I don't send it to dayeanu).
caspar, thank you SO MUCH for the encouragement! And the "permission" to toss the paint!
Getting ready to do my 8 minutes. . .
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