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Post by dayeanu on Aug 23, 2014 11:43:59 GMT -5
ench all I can day is BLESS YOU! I think YOU need to see the house, and take your own photos. In case you need to talk to authorities, you can say YES! that you have seen it first hand, and here is the proof. It does sound like a dangerous environment for both him and his dog. How does the outside of the house look? If it looks squalorous from the outside, that might be enough. If there truly are dead carcasses and mold from water leaks, the humane society or city code enforcement or fire Marshall inspection while your uncle is away could do the trick. Call and talk to them. But before you do, I really think you need to see it and photograph it yourself, so you won't be reporting here-say. If his place really is that bad, he's not only a health hazard for himself and his dog, he is also a health/fire hazard for the whole neighborhood, so it really DOES need to be addressed from that standpoint. BTW, I am writing this as a seriously squalorous person myself. I have been through a forced clean-out. The forced clean-out and move to a new location did not work, because I had no understanding of my problem. Nor was I treated with respect or compassion, nor was I allowed to have any say/so in the process. I was forced to move to a lovely clean apartment and was left to my own devices, and had the place squalorous again in record time. NOT BECAUSE I enjoyed living like that, but because I simply did not know how to do better. At that time, I believe if a professional had talked to me, and explained things to me, and then had someone to help me on a regular basis to establish better living habits, I would have accepted that. I THINK. Do you think there is ANY possibility of reasoning with him about the safety issues involved? NOW, I would love for an understanding relative or professional to come and help me dig out! If you think he can be reasoned with, and assured of some control over the situation, and treated with respect, a forced intervention would be the kindest thing you could do for him. I just hate to see him burn down the neighborhood, along with himself and dog and maybe rescue personnel. Another thought I had here: Is it that bad, or is it just shocking to non-squalorous folk? (I say that because many of us here have probably run across an unfortunate dehydrated mouse in our squalor, without necessarily being a danger to the whole neighborhood. Or maybe we are. I'm not sure I'm competent to be a good judge of that!)
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Post by bluefrog on Aug 23, 2014 12:02:50 GMT -5
I don't think I've seen an answer to this question; if you've already given the information, please excuse me for asking again. Is your uncle a hoarder, or is his place simply squalid? Does he buy many more items than he can use, is he unable to throw things away, or is he unable for physical reasons to clean up after himself and the dog? Which of these conditions applies may make a difference in the kind of help he needs/may accept. If it's a hoarding problem, there are some excellent books by Randy O. Frost and others with approaches to the problem(s). If you're in the UK, you might have a look at www.compulsive-hoarding.org/Support.html which has resources and ideas for help. I don't know of similar resources in the US or Canada, but I'm sure there are some out there, probably by state/province. Best of luck to you--your parents won't be around forever to help him, and it's really hard to convince a hoarder that he needs help.
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Post by dayeanu on Aug 23, 2014 12:13:53 GMT -5
bluefrog asks some good questions. I wanted to mention (and if you already know all this I apologize), the books mentioned by Lioness are available on Kindle, and if you don't have a kindle, you can download their app on your phone or computer, saving you a trip to the bookstore, or waiting for mail order.
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Post by sparkle on Aug 23, 2014 13:15:23 GMT -5
I would only add that the book that lion recommended, "Digging Out" should be a high priority even if you have to pay amazon shipping though I'm sure there are used copies there, too. The library would be a good place to look first. The book is particularly helpful to those trying to help a family member. I hope you will keep us posted on future developments and all the best to everyone involved.
Oops. Duplicate thought. I didn't see daye's.
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Post by Bethel on Aug 23, 2014 16:37:22 GMT -5
There are other ways besides guardianship. I'd talk to an experienced elder care lawyer before making any legal moves. I'd also keep your parents involved in the legal process. For one thing, I think you mentioned your mom is a "clean" hoarder? It's often a slippery slope, and it could be beneficial for the entire family to have a good look at all the issues involved.
Be as honest, and as open with your uncle as possible. But don't flinch from the serious issues. The shower draining to under the house, the electrics, and the stove are all extremely serious issues. Talk directly with him about one issue at a time. Maybe ask if you can help him get that stuff fixed. That could be the wedge issue that opens up all the others. It could be useful to get the help of a psychologist or professional organizer who is familiar with hoarding and squalor. Oftentimes depression is a major factor.
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Post by dayeanu on Aug 23, 2014 16:50:56 GMT -5
One thing to keep in mind - if something like the stove blows up, or the electric wiring causes a fire, it could endanger neighbors' lives as well. That's not to be taken lightly. I remember a news story a few months ago,where a house blew up due to a gas leak, and a child sleeping in the house next door was killed.
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ench
New Member
Joined: March 2014
Posts: 19
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Post by ench on Aug 23, 2014 19:58:28 GMT -5
Thanks so much everyone! I'm an Aussie, so have been asleep, but will come back and answer the questions people have raised soon. After breakfast and kid stuff.
Thanks again for all your support- I really love this forum!
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Twix
New Member
Joined: August 2014
Posts: 31
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Post by Twix on Aug 27, 2014 5:16:19 GMT -5
Thanks so much everyone! I'm an Aussie, so have been asleep, but will come back and answer the questions people have raised soon. After breakfast and kid stuff. Thanks again for all your support- I really love this forum! I'm in Australia too - Victoria I think it's really good what you're trying to do for your relative. It can be hard enough helping someone through a difficult problem even when they are appreciative, let alone when they're not.
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ench
New Member
Joined: March 2014
Posts: 19
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Post by ench on Nov 19, 2014 7:00:44 GMT -5
Well time for an update!! I put on my big girl knickers and went to his place and talked to him. I was pretty matter of fact and unemotional (til I cried and we had a decent chat. He told me he had done some cleaning - and I believe he had - but was unable to do much at a time as he got worn out. I agreed and basically told him he was never going to be able to do it all himself, and that was OK - I understood that. I suggested I had time while the girls were at school to help him in short sessions - I was not into marathon cleans! He agreed!! So, I have been going around a couple of times per week - tbh 3 times per week (during school hours) on average - for the last couple of months! It's getting better - the kitchen, dining, bathroom, toilet, laundry, lounge room and (today) bedroom have all been worked on and are looking pretty OK! Still need a fair bit of love, but OK. I NEVER want to see or smell rat/mouse poo or dog bones and hair again! And I am really over empty cans! I currently have an insane amount of washing to do, in order to work out if the clothes are rags, donate or use (got to get the years of dust off them first). I have pulled up carpet from a few rooms - it was full of YEARS of dust - and got some windows cleaned and open. My dad even came around an helped to unblock a drain which I had started, but couldn't finish. It is so much easier to breathe in there now, and I think my uncle has improved mentally from having a non judgmental person just accept it as it is and help him. We've had a few disagreements about some things, but overall it is going really well. He's following up on sleep aponea as a possible contributor to his fatigue too, which is probably pretty severe based on mum's feedback, and the snoring I have heard! I asked him about the power issues on that first visit and he admitted it wasn't great, but it actually seems to be a lot better than I expected. He said he wouldn't have anyone in to fix it then, but I will broach it again now the house is looking much better. I also need to figure out what to do about mouldy walls and ceiling in the bathroom. I broached the subject of maintenance a few visits ago. And without hesitating, he said he would ring and see if he could get a cleaner! Now just to ensure he actually does it at some point! Phew! Thanks for reading the epic update! I couldn't have done it without all you guys! It's been so great to be able to get it off my chest and "talk" to people who actually understand and don't judge! Now I just need to get back to my neglected house at some stage! I have so much unneeded kid's stuff to get through, but there's only so much time in the day, and I have been trying not to burn out. Love to you all!!
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Post by cyn on Nov 19, 2014 8:43:40 GMT -5
You're awesome, ench - what a wonderful thing to do, and I'm sure it was pretty tough going at times! I know from my tiny pile by my dresser, seeing mouse poop and chewed items made me go, "Ewwww - into the garbage!" (except for one nice sweater) but that's my stuff, and just a corner of the room. It would be an *extraordinary effort* if it was my entire place, and worse still if someone was helping me to pitch things. But I can't imagine how unhealthy that place must have been - I have a special fear of contacting hantavirus myself, because of my mouse problems.
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Post by wit on Nov 19, 2014 9:01:23 GMT -5
Congratulations! What an amazing update! He's so lucky to have you. Your parents must be thrilled.
One idea for the electrician (and probably some kind of workmen for the mold issues) - if he has anxiety about them entering the house, could you be there to let them in? He could stay upstairs, or go out to the shops, and just come back when it's done.
Thanks for letting us know how it's going, and good luck with your own house!
wit
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Post by def6 on Nov 19, 2014 10:54:30 GMT -5
Yes! Gently and firmly tell your relative that his needs are not being met at his house…that he needs a clean, convenient place to live and in the event caregivers even medical supply people have to come in (with oxygen or other) they can do so. I believe he actually could be much more independent if the right supports were in place. But I really think he needs help on a weekly basis with the cleaning…this really strikes me as he is not going to do much more than dressing himself and perhaps making something simple to eat.
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Post by CourageouslyLion SeeksSerenity on Nov 19, 2014 11:57:12 GMT -5
Well time for an update!! I put on my big girl knickers and went to his place and talked to him. I was pretty matter of fact and unemotional (til I cried and we had a decent chat. He told me he had done some cleaning - and I believe he had - but was unable to do much at a time as he got worn out. I agreed and basically told him he was never going to be able to do it all himself, and that was OK - I understood that. I suggested I had time while the girls were at school to help him in short sessions - I was not into marathon cleans! He agreed!! So, I have been going around a couple of times per week - tbh 3 times per week (during school hours) on average - for the last couple of months! It's getting better - the kitchen, dining, bathroom, toilet, laundry, lounge room and (today) bedroom have all been worked on and are looking pretty OK! Still need a fair bit of love, but OK. I NEVER want to see or smell rat/mouse poo or dog bones and hair again! And I am really over empty cans! I currently have an insane amount of washing to do, in order to work out if the clothes are rags, donate or use (got to get the years of dust off them first). I have pulled up carpet from a few rooms - it was full of YEARS of dust - and got some windows cleaned and open. My dad even came around an helped to unblock a drain which I had started, but couldn't finish. It is so much easier to breathe in there now, and I think my uncle has improved mentally from having a non judgmental person just accept it as it is and help him. We've had a few disagreements about some things, but overall it is going really well. He's following up on sleep aponea as a possible contributor to his fatigue too, which is probably pretty severe based on mum's feedback, and the snoring I have heard! I asked him about the power issues on that first visit and he admitted it wasn't great, but it actually seems to be a lot better than I expected. He said he wouldn't have anyone in to fix it then, but I will broach it again now the house is looking much better. I also need to figure out what to do about mouldy walls and ceiling in the bathroom. I broached the subject of maintenance a few visits ago. And without hesitating, he said he would ring and see if he could get a cleaner! Now just to ensure he actually does it at some point! Phew! Thanks for reading the epic update! I couldn't have done it without all you guys! It's been so great to be able to get it off my chest and "talk" to people who actually understand and don't judge! Now I just need to get back to my neglected house at some stage! I have so much unneeded kid's stuff to get through, but there's only so much time in the day, and I have been trying not to burn out. Love to you all!! .................. My heart is filled with gratitude to read this. I'm crying. Thanks so much for this update. I especially appreciated this: " It is so much easier to breathe in there now, and I think my uncle has improved mentally from having a non judgmental person just accept it as it is and help him. We've had a few disagreements about some things, but overall it is going really well."
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Post by def6 on Nov 19, 2014 12:27:05 GMT -5
Hello Ench…May I commend you for really making a difference in your loved ones life.
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Post by lostchild on Nov 19, 2014 12:31:50 GMT -5
I am glad you've had such a successful time. I know its been hard. Please get electrician in asap because if he need a cpap machine it takes electrical power and could cause more electrical problems.
Cpap is a machine that assists people with sleep apnea and it would help your uncle especially with alertness. When I was married if my hubby didn't have his machine he was groggy all day. His focus was lacking. He was tired! He snored like a chain saw and he would stop breathing.
Get a sleep clinic to check him asap. It could save his life.
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