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Post by italianlady on Jul 28, 2015 17:50:25 GMT -5
It's all or nothing for me when it comes to cleaning. Either I do nothing and it goes right down the uncleaned and clogged toilet, or I do everything and I want it clean enough to perform heart surgery on the kitchen table. From what I've read, a lot of us are like that. All or nothing. Well, I'm trying to get over that and I've been doing ok with it, and letting some things stay undone and making myself realize that it's not going to turn into squalor. One reason it does turn into squalor is because I do so much and I'm so picky and perfect that I literally cannot keep it up every single day for month after month after year without getting behind and panicking and catching up and I get so worn out by that, that I collapse and I'm overwhelmed and frustrated and I am disappointed with myself and I let it go because I've set the standard too high and I'm physically exhausted because I've kept it up for months or even years most of the time, with frantic catchup cleaning when I let it go for days or a week or so. Then it gets messy, then dirty, then filthy, then nasty, then squalorous while I'm laying in the bed or confining myself to one room reminding myself of how clean it was and I let it all go because I just couldn't be bothered. I know exactly what I'm doing to myself, and that it's not healthy, but I can't really convince myself otherwise.
I don't know what normal clean is. I grew up in squalor with hoarding. Any friends house I went to, whether (in retrospect I see this) messy or tidy was spotless to me, and it was the ideal because it was not my house. Any place was the right way because it wasn't what I was used to. So, I never really learned what normal was, I never learned what OK was, what passable was. Heck, I thought my across the street clean but extremely hoarded except for three rooms house was the way a palace would be. I didn't know. I know from magazines. I know from tv shows. I know from movies. I know from friends houses, which are still an assortment of messy that I can see and very clean that I can also differentiate between. No matter how messy their houses are though, I think it must be ok because it's somebody else's place and not mine, and that I'm just not understanding. I might not be.
What I want to know is what is normal? What is ok? What is good enough? Not what is personally good enough for everybody because I want it spotless dammit! I don't want to want that and I'm forcing myself to feel comfortable with less spotless and realize it's not squalor. It's crazy that a lady who can step over dog poop and bags of garbage interspersed with laundry, magazines, toys, junk, food wrappers and cans and not bat an eye will also obsess about the fact that the wainscotting has gotten dingy and she didn't think to clean it before this. What I want to know is if you were the Goddess of Housework and you had a wand that would take care of everyone's problems and you had to decide a workable, across the board "good enough" for "normal people" what would your standards be? Be explicit please. I'm not going to go by them. I just want to see some examples of it. What do the rooms look like? What housework is done on a daily basis? What are the things that normal people don't worry about? What do people let go for a day or two? What is really acceptable?
I realize there is no one answer, but I honestly have no clue. I obviously do not have a clue because it's either squalor or I literally exhaust myself by spending every waking hour cleaning an already cleaned and organized house and never get it all done in a day. So obviously there is something wrong with my calibration and I'd like some examples so I can figure it out. By normal people I'm talking about people who are not any of us. People who have never hoarded or lived in squalor. People who have happy families and eat fruit and have the Golden Retriever that never sheds and who all sit down at the table for dinner every night and who have family meetings to decide on where to go for vacation. In other words, people who don't really exist except for my one perfect neighbor who I suspect is stealing ADHD medication from one of her four kids whom she homeschools and volunteers at the church, has a perfect yard, is married to a doctor and goes on mission trips to provide free medical care to Third World Countries - with all four well behaved kids in two because it's educational - and who owns and runs a dance studio and who ever freakin' bakes. OK, they exist but are few and far between. She's probably going to fall out from exhaustion one day too, but she does good enough. Her house is clean but it's somewhat cluttered and lived in at times. Sometimes she doesn't mop up the footprints that get tracked in, I've seen the same ones two days in a row. Doesn't bother her though because it's mostly clean. I don't want to ask her, she doesn't know I'm housekeeping impaired at times. So what would these fictional people's standards be?
I'm asking for a strange reason. After 26 years of never giving the kids a chore because it was either nasty in the house and nobody could do anything or I wanted to do it perfectly myself so it was easier, I have decided to start chores with my 18 year old daughter. They do them when I'm sick or in a rush or something, but I mean every day. Something I give up control of to her. I did give her dishes but she would let them go until there was almost nothing clean and then do them. She told me to chill, nobody is doing without a glass or fork but I could not chill. I took away dishes and gave her sweeping. This is the second day. She has swept but left dog hair clumps in a few places in the house, and there was a piece of popcorn that came out from under the storage drawer under the oven when I mopped. Also, there were small pieces of hair that you couldn't see until the mop got them wet and brought them together. This does not happen when I sweep and if that is there, what else is there, and I feel like it negates everything else in the house because the floors are not right. But I know they are. I know most people would be fine with it. I'm also working out a lot of this in my head as I explain this to you, but I need your help to know what is what most people would think is "good enough" and more importantly why is something good enough? What makes this dirt ok to leave but not that dirt?
I have to know what others think about this to be able to make this distinction for myself. My entire life I have thought any place but my home was great, and mine was only great when I was killing myself to keep it literally looking like a magazine because I thought that was what normal was. Even when I found out it wasn't, I kept it up or gave up totally. Now, in my late middle age, I'm sick of doing this. I'm sick of cleaning a clean house when nobody but me can tell the difference! I want to know what normal people do. I want to capture and study one of these normal people, (my neighbor is not normal although she is my idea of what it is because I got it from TV).
So, enough rambling, I hope I've explained all this. It will take me weeks to figure this out but I appreciate reading your input and I desperately need it. Don't tell me to go by what I feel, I've been doing that. Don't ask me what I think because if I knew I would have done it. Give me some made up stuff to contemplate and compare please. Something reasonable. I guess reasonable is the word I want, not normal. I want to see lots of lists here of what you think these fictional people would consider ok. Please. I sound desperate because I am. I'm ok and not upset but I've realized I need to change and finally I know what exactly I need to change, but I need help to figure out the rest of it please.
Thanks in advance, and for reading this far. I will now take a breath and have a Pop Tart.
Whew. I'm exhausted from thinking and writing that.
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Post by Bethel on Jul 28, 2015 18:35:02 GMT -5
Wow. Lots of stuff going on here.
You're on the right track thinking that others ("normal people") wouldn't stress about a single popcorn kernel.
And that it will take you weeks to figure stuff out. Months maybe. And that's OK.
Baby steps. Baby steps.
I'm sure others will weigh in with better advice.
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Post by wit on Jul 28, 2015 18:40:24 GMT -5
Wow. You're thinking about a lot! I don't have time right now to do lots of lists but the first thing that springs to mind is dishes. IMO, a "normal" household corrals dirty dishes into the sink/counters after every meal. Meals are not in bedrooms. Mugs or water glasses sitting around the house go to the sink/counter before bed. The dirty dishes on the sink and counter are less than 24 hours old - daytime ones get handwashed or go in the dishwasher before or while making dinner, and dinner ones might get left overnight but would be done the next morning. Dishwasher is run when it is full or every night, emptied as soon as it is needed or every morning. Whenever the dishes are done, the counters get wiped down too. When a table is cleared, it is wiped down.
That is my first thought though I'd welcome other takes on dishes!
And I hope I have time to put a few more of my ideas down, I think this will be an interesting thread!
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Post by joyinvirginia on Jul 28, 2015 22:33:44 GMT -5
I will start and probably edit and add as I think of things.
Most important: if you ask kids to do a task, show what you want then let them do it and don't go behind them and do it again. If it's way off, show your kid or your husband what to do next time.
entry way: I vacuum it every week or two, or ask Dd to do it. In between, if a few leaves or pieces of grass get in, it's ok, I just leave it until next time I vacuum.
Downstairs bathroom, I usually clean the toilet, every week or three depending. Counter may have a few things on top. Every couple weeks I wipe off counter and put things away, hair brushes, etc. Change the hand towel every couple weeks, when ever I notice it getting grungy. I don't use fancy towels in here unless it's Christmas season. It's close to front door, if some leaves get in here it's ok, I leave it until next time I vacuum. There is a basket with magazines, I clean it out and recycle magazines every month or so.
Music room, piano in there, CD players, the music cds that are not in the car, also the dh bicycle work area when it's really hot or cold out. The bicycle lives behind the couch and dh puts a blanket out on the floor when working on it. He has to clean the bicycle mostly before bringing it in. Old socks are great bicycle cleaning rags, throw them out when they are covered in grease!
Family room, tv, large couch and smaller couch, usually a box belonging to dh is on the smaller couch. Every couple weeks I ask him to get his stuff off the couch. It's usually something bicycle related. There is a wooden tv tray with a few papers and couple pieces of mail and latest tv guide or people mag on it. A recliner next to book case, usually a glass left on book case. I ask everyone in the family to gather dishes or glasses at end of day and put them in the sink.
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Post by peaceandfreedom on Jul 28, 2015 23:57:33 GMT -5
Italian Lady, I, too, struggle with some of your questions. I have no idea what "normal people" do. Someone here suggested to check out from the library Martha Stewart's book called Homekeeping Handbook. I did so a few days ago. Near the front of the book it contains lists of things she says should be done daily/weekly/monthly/seasonal, etc. I made photocopies of her lists to use as worksheets and to eventually use to try and make up my own schedules that work for me. However, I'm not to that point yet, so I'm just gathering information. I just put together my very first "do this daily" list a few days ago, and so far it has been very helpful for things like self-care items, etc. I'm a beginner here, but have already gleaned a lot from others. Hang in there!
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Post by Di on Jul 29, 2015 1:25:39 GMT -5
I have a very difficult time with "normal" I think it's a setting on the dryer. I am extremely distressed right now because I can't get my room "acceptable" I have recently moved and I have boxes everywhere, I am sharing a house so I don't have the entire area to myself. I keep finding myself spreading and it's difficult for me to get a handle on it and to get my stuff contained..
I too want things to be perfect or I give up. I think that for some that is a reaction to growing up in a hoarding situation and for some of us it is a facet of ADHD. I know that I will be unpacking for a long time I am trying to find a place for each item and if there isn't a place I am trying to get rid of it. This is hard for me... I NEED THIS STUFF!! REALLY, I DO!
Meanwhile, I keep the kitchen counters clean, I vacuum weekly (unless there is a spill and I have to get it up) I mop weekly, I clean the bathroom weekly or nag my housemate to do it, I wash clothes every other day and start the dishwasher each night. I tidy something each day. None of these thing are particularly time consuming. BUT, I often either have to tell Self that it's "good enough" or I have to strongly encourageself to do them. When I keep up with my self imposed "schedule" things stay in a state that I consider normal.
Meanwhile, the boxes are NOT NORMAL and they are totally unacceptable... I wish there was a miracle unpacking service that I would call. Maybe, if I get my room organized, I can keep it organized (The preceding sentence is a pipe dream that has no basis in reality at this point in time.)
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Post by Jannie on Jul 29, 2015 8:06:52 GMT -5
Sigh, I know exactly what you mean. I do know the "envy" of everyone elses house. Seems like everyone else is "normal" and I'm the dirty, disorganized odd-ball. I try to keep things up daily- for instance I hand-wash dishes several times a day. Every morning I do my "routine, which is, get up, shower, dress, empty kitchen waste basket,feed pets, clean cat box.fter that is done, I allow myself to go out for coffee at a local diner. Then I check to see if I have enough laundry for a full load. I no longer sort laundry into lights and darks- everything goes in together. My household recently had a major change- my grown daughter moved in with her boyfriend and their two month old daughter.My daughter does a lot of the housework. I noticed last night someone had bought a container of milk. So it's both good and bad. More people, more noise, more dirt, more expenses. But I get to see my Grand-daughter every day!
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Post by phoenixcat on Jul 29, 2015 11:33:06 GMT -5
My personal definition of "good enough" is the very ambiguous "comfortable". I love the saying "excuse the mess, but we live here". People leave trails - most people change clothes, use dishes, go to the bathroom, take showers on a daily basis, have pets or small children - all of that leaves behind something. Which is why a lot of people go by "eliminate the evidence". Dirty clothes go in the hamper, clean clothes in the drawers, soap residue and toothpaste by the sink is wiped up with a paper towel and thrown in the garbage. Dishes are loaded in the dishwasher or washed after the meal and at least put in the drainer. Of course, these are all "maintenance" type activities which to me is what is "good enough" - you are defining your maintenance. So my maintenance/"good enough" is being comfortable. I'm comfortable if someone drops by - not dying of embarrassment due to smell or mess. My visitors are comfortable in our home. There are clean, uncluttered spaces for them to sit. I can offer them food prepared in a relatively sanitary kitchen on clean dishes. They don't trip over a bunch of stuff on the floors. My stuff is not considered clutter but collectibles  that are interesting to look at but aren't in their way to being able to sit down and watch TV or converse. That I can be comfortable enjoying a meal or drink with them without "fussing" over them. That I can let them look for something or "help" me without fear and embarrassment. But most importantly, that DH, myself and our cats are comfortable. We are here most of the time. Yes I would probably pick up a popcorn kernel if it was in my path. Would I mention it to anyone else - doubtful - I would like to be at the point to just do it without thinking much about it. On the other hand, DH is addicted to Spanish peanuts - he is constantly leaving their little shells all over the furniture and floor near his chair. Yes, I do criticize that and usually help him clean it. Because to me that is embarrassing having food all around sitting areas if someone came by - I would not be "comfortable". I think it is important that you do give the kids work to do. DH is the floor mopper. Is it perfect no - could I do it better - maybe but do I want to take the time for it - no. Because I have my own tasks that I'm in charge of - I'm usually the kitchen person and the laundry person. I take care of the top half of the cats - food, water and cleaning the throw up. DH takes care of the bottom half - litter boxes.  I think the kids need a baseline of what is good enough. In my opinion, certain tasks like dishes/laundry/floor sweeping - if you require it to be done daily - that is probably "good enough". Maybe one task they would really step up and "feel the pain" on is doing their own laundry Create a schedule of availability per week for washer/dryer time. They pick when they want to wash their own clothes and personal linens - towels, sheets. Then it is their own problem if they run out of clean clothes and smell. Teenagers especially will not like this! And, it is a good life skill for being on their own. It is a little harder to have them "do their own food/dishes". But if they are working outside the home - they could contribute both in helping you with house maintenance and financially. They have to be responsible for all of this when they move out. If your daughter is sweeping daily and making some effort - it may not be perfect but it would be good enough. What she missed one day - she will get another. Maybe get some swiffer or stick vacuum that picks up a little more than just a broom. Also, don't underestimate the ability of other members in the household to manipulate. DH and I have come to our arrangement over the course of many years of each doing the tasks we find the least distasteful. it isn't unheard of for one person to do a task SO POORLY that they know that it will frustrate the heck out of the other person. Maybe pick 5 or 6 tasks that you would do daily in the house - such as the dishes or sweeping. And then split them up - let her pick the ones she likes best. Only condition is that it must be done daily. And, if she isn't doing her laundry - turn it over to her. You can always dump it in her room or on her bed and close the door so that it doesn't sit forever in your laundry area making you feel like you should do it. I have been trying out this list of 9 habits of neat people. I noticed that it is 2nd nature for most of my "cleanie" friends. Most of it is not deep cleaning - it is simple cleaning as you go. As opposed to a big cleaning of the walls - wipe up the spots when the mess is made or you notice it. When you work on a project - contain it to an unfrequented area or have a place to put it out of the way when you are done for the day. And, acknowledge who you are and who you are cleaning for. We have cats - cat hair is always a problem. That is always going to be a battle. For example, if you are an artist - set aside a place for your art work - that is your domain - who cares how clean or messy it is - it is your space as long as it fosters your creativity. The same could be said for an office or writers - the space needs to foster what you want to do independent of cleaning. Neat people just do little things all the time without thinking too much about it. They wipe down countertops as they are chatting with you. They open packages and automatically gather up the paper and put it where it belongs (and their stuff has a "home"). My cleanie friends are extremely busy outside of their homes. They are in constant maintenance so it rarely needs a big overhaul. And, they delegate - all members of the household have chores and are expected to clean up after themselves. Now that I'm inching into maintenance - I'm trying to follow the nine habits. We are fortunate enough to have cleaners in once a month but it is mainly doing more deep cleaning of the areas we've been spot cleaning all month. DH is always spot vacuuming/mopping up cat hair and I wipe up spots as I see them. The cleaners do all the floors in one shot. I swiffer a bit when I see cat hair around the TVs - they do a thorough dusting once a month. Same with cleaning bathrooms, kitchen - i clean if I see something but they get a better cleaning from them once a month. If I didn't have them - I think I would go for the deeper cleaning on a monthly basis on my own. Probably split it up like dusting one weekend, bathrooms one weekend, etc. Sorry I made this so long - didn't realize I had such strong opinions on good enough  Good luck with figuring out your maintenance/good enough!!  PC Nine habits in case you are interested: • Make Their Bed • Empty the Dishwasher in the Morning • Do a Load of Laundry Every Day• Use Baskets to Organize Things • Don't Procrastinate (this refers to taking care of mail, packages, etc. as it arrives)• Put Away Their Clothes From the Day• Clean as They Go• Never Go to Bed With a Dirty Kitchen• Plan Ahead (this refers to preparing for the next day i.e ironing, lunches, etc.)
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Post by magda on Jul 30, 2015 8:15:05 GMT -5
Hi. I grew up in a normal home. And my housekeeping challenge personally is that I am time stressed and tend to be disorganized but not a hoarder. Never in squalor. So if I can be if any help here is my two cents  My mom is my model. Even w a houseful of kids we had a neat organized home all the time. It was always company ready ! And she even worked full time for several years. I am in awe if her!! So here is how I think she did it and kept us in a "normal home" Daily pick ups all day long. We put things away. If kids played a game, game was put away when we were done. A nightly pick up to put any thing away. To straighten couch. Put a cup or glass in sink. Straighten up coffee table. Fold the couch afghan blanket A place for everything. Everything had a home. Nothing was lying about Dishes. Rinsed and put in dishwasher throughout day. Sink mostly empty. Dish washer run every night. Emptied every morning. Table cleared and wiped as used during day. After dinner each night the dishes went to dishwasher , the table was wiped, the floor swept, the stove wiped , the white porcelain sink cleaned w comet cleanser , and trash taken out Laundry done on an ongoing basis. It was always put away. Never sat in laundry baskets. There was a big hamper in hall near bathroom. All dirty clothes went in hamper until they made the trip to the laundry room Vacuuming at least once a week. More as needed w pets or spills Bathrooms scrubbed once a week. We cleaned shower each time we used it. Sinks wiped down daily as needed Dusting done weekly Kitchen floor mopped weekly Mail was daily dealt with. I think she had some under the bed boxes where she kept important papers. A drawer in the dining room buffet was for bills and checks I think It was really two factored that kept our home do pleasantly clean: Everything had a place or a home. Nothing was left lying around The daily pick up and clean up. It was not that hard to do the daily stuff as it never really got out of hand. My mom did the lions share but we kids had chores. One big job was to have the kitchen clean and organized by dinner so my mom had a nice clean kitchen to cook dinner in. I try to model myself after my mom. I am more if a pack rat than her and this extra clutter is my biggest challenge and time waster. |
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Post by Jannie on Jul 30, 2015 8:19:28 GMT -5
One thing that defines "normal" for me is- no garbage in the house. Every single waste basket gets emptied at least once a day. I started this habit when I lived alone in my first apartment. Out of necessity. There were roaches in the building and I didn't want any in my place!
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Post by peaceandfreedom on Jul 30, 2015 8:30:20 GMT -5
Magda, thank you for a painting a beautiful word picture of "home" as you knew it. You are so fortunate to have that ongoing example. And we are fortunate to have you to share it with us.
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Post by Jannie on Jul 31, 2015 5:09:21 GMT -5
I just re-read what Magda wrote. It's perfect.
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Post by boyswillbeboys on Jul 31, 2015 9:55:11 GMT -5
I'm not sure on normal, I look at my house, and think it needs to be better than it was. Some people look at my house and say it's really clean, others look at it as a disgusting mess, I figure that must put me middle of the road.
It has taken me years to find this middle, my kids have toys out, but they are picked up every day, there are dirty dishes, but I have a system that gets them done most of the time, floors are swept 2-3 times a week, same with carpets being vacuumed. There is a load of laundry clean and dry every day (This keeps it in check, I don't like to do laundry all day, any day, but a load a day, keeps chaos away)
Surfaces are wiped.
I'm at the point where I'm noticing my walls need to be washed, but I'm one who overlooks anything that has been there for awhile. My kids have chores they are allowed to do imperfectly
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Post by artax on Jul 31, 2015 10:53:29 GMT -5
What Magda shared is consistent with the very few "normal" people I know. My maternal grandmother was a model 1950s housewife, but sadly my flower-child mother was the complete opposite. What I do dimly recall from my grandma's household were these takeaways:
*Always clean up as you go
*Only buy the best, as it is a long-term savings
*Dust first, then vacuum. Astoundingly, I think she vacuumed every day -- at least when we kids were visiting.
*Be utterly unsentimental and ruthless when throwing stuff out (I think this was the hardest on my poor mom. One time, my grandma threw away her novel-in-progress!)
*Only eat in the dining room (it was an elegant event, with flowers and Franciscan Desert Rose place settings)
*A neatly made-up bed with fresh linen sheets is a sign of class
*Having people over with regularity (say, the bridge club) is a social ritual that obligates one to keep up one's home
and,
*Hire people several times a year to do the most back-breaking work (i.e. scrubbing windows, floors, yardwork, etc.)
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Post by magda on Jul 31, 2015 12:32:34 GMT -5
Peaceandfreedom and Jannie - thanks! my mom passed away not all that long ago, and writing that post made me feel close to her and be grateful for all that she did to give her children a pleasant, clean home.
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