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Post by mellowyellow on Aug 31, 2008 10:16:23 GMT -5
Whoa Pegasus... you just brought some interesting points.
I realize that over the years, I HAVE used fat or "body clutter" to avoid people, or to keep people from getting physically and emotionally close to me. I realize it's my introverted tendencies coming out. My dad always used to point it out, that I almost resented hugging people when I was a teenager. He said that I didn't need to like everyone, but that I should try to foster a bond with one or two really good friends. He worried that I was forming very superficial, flirty relationships, without developing something of depth and true affection.
Now that I think about it: There have been at least three situations, scary and potentially dangerous situations, when I remember inappropriate male attention/actions towards me when I was thin and attractive. I am not talking about silly, teenage "make out" attempts, but more sinister situations, where things might have ended really badly for me. One involved a teen boy in a parking garage, one involved a military guy who drove me out to an abandoned airfield, and one involved a much older youth counsellor. In none of the instances was I raped or sexually assaulted, but they all did attempt to have sex with me, and it was only my survival mechanisms that saved me. I talked my way out of each situation, but was greatly affected for years later. Perhaps eating my way out of "pretty" has rescued me over the years.
I have always gone through that yo-yo between being healthy weight and being very fat. I know that when I am thinner, I am suspicious of male attention and relationships, and I question whether they are with me for my appearance, or if they actually like me for my intelligence and quirkiness.
Now I have gained a lot of weight again. My BF is still with me, (though I know he would wish me to lose weight). But the fact he is here, seems to soothe me... that he actually likes me for ME. Hmmm... The thing is... I realize that this relationship is working its way to an end... and I also realize that I want to get healthier again... I guess it's a sign that I want people in my life, but at the same time, realize he is not the man for me. I want to be more approachable. To allow people to care about me. But I want to do it with the right people.
Is that off topic? Perhaps... Very cathartic though... Amazing what clutter manifests itself in a person's body, mind and soul...
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Post by roseoftexas on Aug 31, 2008 18:21:59 GMT -5
( Bold emphasis mine) I feel the same way. Honestly, I *really* hate it when people use "feels like i'm being raped" to explain how they are feeling, when they have never actually gone through that situation... but maybe i'm too emotional. No, you are not too emotional. Your feelings matter. And they are perfectly valid. I know I have already apologized, but I sense I really struck a nerve here. I am so sorry, Molly.
I came back to modify this post ... as my words seem to me to be so woefully inadequate. There is not a 'smiley' or an emoticon I can think of that could even begin to express my sincerity. Certainly, this is not something to 'smile' about. AT ALL. I am not trying to 'beat myself up' - I just want you to know, dear Molly, that I really mean everything I've written to you here. I pray the words I said will hopefully soon be long forgotten and replaced with everlasting peace, the peace that surpasses all human understanding.
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Post by reesa on Aug 31, 2008 18:38:46 GMT -5
some things affect me so strongly that I'd compare the emotions to the ones I had when I was attacked, years ago. I was not raped but it was close. and some other experiences I have had have been just as frightening to me...the sensation of being violated or harmed, and having no control over what would happen next, those feelings are best described that way.
My boundaries are firm once I set them. I have a large bubble, too. It's rare for me to have feelings of fear that intense, but it does sometimes happen. I think people just describe things as best they can, and for the most part people especially here have no ill intentions when they are talking about their own experience. So I don't get offended or worried...everyone experiences things differently.
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Post by roseoftexas on Aug 31, 2008 18:42:31 GMT -5
Rose of Texas...I hope I didn't hurt your feelings by what I wrote. You did not hurt my feelings - it's ok. And I mean that!
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Post by roseoftexas on Aug 31, 2008 18:47:44 GMT -5
Thank you, Little Ninja. (((HUGS)))
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Post by metamorpha on Aug 31, 2008 19:46:27 GMT -5
Throw me in with the "my stuff doesn't really matter but who makes the choices about it DOES" crowd. If it's MINE, it's not YOURS ... so back off. I have a very defensive personality, and do believe that clutter has become a way to keep people away. I just hate that it affects those I care about so very much.
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Post by roseoftexas on Aug 31, 2008 20:28:27 GMT -5
Throw me in with the "my stuff doesn't really matter but who makes the choices about it DOES" crowd. If it's MINE, it's not YOURS ... so back off. Oh, you are so right, Metamorpha! That is EXACTLY how I feel too!
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hopehope
Banned
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 3,815
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Post by hopehope on Aug 31, 2008 20:42:46 GMT -5
"I am still ME. I am still the shining light of my soul. Nobody can take that from me."
what is the sound of one squalorer clapping? hear that?
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Post by threeg on Aug 31, 2008 20:43:50 GMT -5
(((Rose)))) I never thought you were actually raped. That had nothing to do with my reaction at all. PLEASE don't feel badly. You said that you FELT like you had been raped, and felt violated. I understand that feeling completely hun. My late husband OFTEN tossed stuff of mine with no thought of how it would make me feel. The result would be me going into an absolute RAGE! (Not that my rages changed anything.) Once he demolished an 1800's rocker made of carved rosewood, because he was drunk and "was tired of fixing it." He came VERY close to death and/or divorce that day! I did, and still would feel just as you did, and although it dredged up awful memories of my actual rape, it was not because of what happened to you. It was just that I react to the R word, and that's my problem. You are a good person and I enjoy your posts. 3g
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Post by mouse on Aug 31, 2008 21:54:54 GMT -5
- I wanted to open up a general discussion that's not about me or her ... or anyone in particular. A thread that's about the feelings that some (or many) of us experience. My question to all of you is .... What are our boundaries ?Where does your INNER SELF -- your "core being" begin and end ? Does that include your body? DOES THAT INCLUDE YOUR STUFF ? Are you so identified with your stuff that you'd feel RAPED if somebody else messed with your stuff? Does that make any real sense? WHY ? ? ? ? ? ?I'm posing questions to challenge our thinking and our assumptions. If your house caught on fire ... or if there was a natural disaster ..... And you could only take WHAT YOU COULD CARRY .... What would you take (in addition to family members and pets)? If you were physically maimed, would you still be YOU? If you were a victim of rape or torture, would you still be "you" ? ? ? ? ? What are your boundaries ? ? ? What is REALLY important? What does it mean to be "violated"? Can you live without your stuff? - Thanks for posting this, Lioness. I'd like to echo everyone else who wanted to reassure Rose of Texas that we all know that she was undergoing extreme stress and medication failure when she posted, and that in no way did I think she was trying to minimize anyone else's experience with actual rape. I am not a survivor of rape, although I am a survivor of assault. I use the word "assault" and not "bullying," because no one seems to see bullying for what it really is. Anyway, that's a post for another time. Let's just say that the constant physical and emotional abuse I got for three years took its toll. I have boundaries that extend pretty far outside myself. I have always liked having "my space" around me. I don't like being touched unexpectedly, and tend to shriek/jump if someone come up from behind me and touches/grabs me, even if it's someone I know and otherwise trust. In my core, I know that I am me: my mind and my body form one person, although for a long time after the abuse I neglected my body because it was easier for me to think of my body as not really part of me. Now I feel differently about it: I enjoy being a physical person as well as an intellectual and emotional being. I don't hoard a lot of things. However, I am a packrat, and I become emotionally attached to the things I *do* have. It's difficult for me to part with many of the things I've had for a long time, because of the memories I associate with them. My mind works by association: sight, sound, smell, touch, taste, all trigger memories for me almost all the time. I have extremely good recall, but only when it has the proper trigger. So to me, losing an object means losing the good memory associated with it. I know that I hate having other people mess with my stuff. I don't like them taking my things without permission, I don't like them using my stuff without asking (it happens a lot at work, and there have been Words about this behaviour). It feels disrespectful to me (I've had people go through my wallet, for heaven's sake! What's up with that?!?), and I never, ever mess with anyone else's stuff as a result. Having people over and letting them serve themselves with dishes from my cupboard is fine. Having them open up my closets and rummage is another. For instance, I hadn't planned on emptying two of my closets during my move: I wanted to do it myself during this week. My friends, meaning well, emptied the closets and brought my stuff to my new place. It made me twitch, although technically they did nothing wrong: I never explicitly told them not to move the stuff: I just assumed that they would "respect" the closed doors and not go poking around. When my apartment was burgled six years ago (almost to the day, in fact!), I did feel violated. I wasn't afraid after that, but I was very angry for many months. The sense that my home, my space, was no longer my own sanctuary, was a terrible feeling for me. I like to think that if I were raped, or if I were to somehow be maimed, that I would still be me, at my core. I would change, certainly: that sort of experience never leaves you the same. I like to think that I would carry on, find ways to work around whatever had happened to me. I don't think that the way I am now means that I will always be this way. I have changed a lot in the past few years: I have overcome mental illness, unemployment, debt, and a bad relationship. I am a stronger, happier person than I ever was before. I like who I have become, and I am confident that I will continue to grow into an even better person. I think that I can live without my stuff. I don't think I'd enjoy having all my stuff removed from me (by a fire or what have you). If I were to be in a fire, I would try to save my cats first, my computer and purse second (the computer because it's my main means of communication with the outside world, and my purse because it contains most of my immediately relevant information, wallet, etc.). The rest is all stuff that I would miss terribly, but that wouldn't be worth risking my life for. I also believe, and I feel bad for saying this, that I would be okay with losing my cats. I love them dearly, and they give me great joy, but I know that I will outlive them no matter what (unless I'm hit by a bus or somehow develop a terminal illness very shortly), and while I will be grief-stricken when they pass, I will accept the loss and move on. I would never voluntarily get rid of all my stuff, I don't think. I am attached to it (see above), and it gives me pleasure. However, I am learning to detach myself from some of my stuff, especially when it's broken and/or no longer useful. I try to sort out my feelings during the process, to see if I'm attached to something that is really no longer relevant (do I *really* feel the need to keep my high school notes? No.), and try to go with my gut on these matters. It usually works. I hope this has gone some way to answering your question(s). ~Mouse
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Post by AnnieOkie on Sept 2, 2008 13:04:39 GMT -5
Rose of Texas-I just wanted to mention to you that I too went through a withdrawal from Xanax a few years ago. It was legally prescribed by my well-intentioned doctor. It was a horrible time when my prescription ran out and I waited DAYS to finally have my doctor's office refill it. I can truly understand your mindset when you posted your thread. I just wanted to say I honestly think a lot of doctors do not realize what they are imposing on their patients when they prescribe some of these medications. They are irresponsible when they do not follow up and continue refills when necessary.
I am happy to say that I have been off all medication for a few years now. I will NEVER take Xanax again, I never want to go through what I did at that time. I hope your doctor can manage your meds better than mine did.
My heart goes out to all of you that have suffered.
Annie
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Post by gifted on Sept 2, 2008 13:50:28 GMT -5
My boundaries. I know that one boundary is being hit, especially on the face. My husband and I would get into arguments, and they would escalate, and sooner or later, he would slap me, and I would cower in a ball on the floor, while he would slap my head and back.
Some years ago, I let a man stay with me, and he stole money, forged a check, lied to me. The police told me that I must let him stay in my house, until I went through a formal process of eviction. I was afraid to do this, because I didn't know what would happen when I confronted him. The most painful thing was discovering that my CDs were gone. My music was part of my identity, and he couldn't have gotten much for them. The whole time he was here, I wondered, "How can he do this to me? " We are taught that "being nice" will mean that people will like us. And it just isn't true.
Messing with my belongings: Someone that I was dating, (and he still has keys to my house.) will sometimes come over and clean my kitchen floor. He doesn't even ask me, he just does it. It isn't the belongings that matter so much. It is the fact that he doesn't ask my permission.
If someone is supposed to care about me, why don't they take into account my feelings? It isn't so much that I identify with my belongings. It is that I am an adult, and I want to be treated with respect. Why would it be okay to come into a hoarder's home, and decide to throw things out, and not a non-hoarders home?
Perhaps part of the reason I surround myself with stuff, and keep myself "busy" is to not feel. Because of how often I have been told that my feelings were "wrong."
I don't know if this post made any sense, but my eyes are misting over, and so I will end it now.
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Post by eatingbonbons on Sept 2, 2008 17:00:17 GMT -5
We live in a hurricane area. Several years ago we were facing evacuation. This was for Hurricane Rita which was just three weeks after Katrina and everyone was exceptionally cautious. We have lots of rescued animals which at that particular moment in time included a sick cat on meds, a paralyzed dog, and a lame horse. I made arrangements for a place that we could take all the animals and bought cardboard cat carriers. Then I calmly made the decision that I was taking nothing - NOTHING! - other than what we needed for a few overnights. Like many of us, I am hugely sentimental and I have more photos than you can imagine. (Photography is my hobby.) I chose to take not one photo. I also have a beloved collection and left every item just where it was. And I was completely at peace with that decision.
Because of that experience I now believe that, yes, I can live without my stuff. On the other hand, if anyone comes to my house with that throw-away gleam in their eyes, that's a completely different story because it's not my choice.
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hopehope
Banned
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 3,815
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Post by hopehope on Sept 2, 2008 17:02:04 GMT -5
I am not able to get into this in depth right now -- maybe soon -- but I will say that the hoarded stuff is a definite boundary -- that they can't get in is in a way good -- because I wouldn't be able to keep them out physically. I've done this before in other places -- stuff in front of the door.
I was physically abused (not sexual) by my father. This -- the stuff -- is a stop sign.
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Post by messysue on Sept 2, 2008 20:48:27 GMT -5
I place to high a value on Stuff.
MY STUFF.
I could live without my stuff but I sure don't want to!!
Like Heylady1 I too have the "I might need this someday" mentality. Add to that the "This can be fixed ... someday" mentality.
I have 5 dogs & a cat. Way to many pets but I couldn't stand losing any of them.
It's so sad to see my folks house being gone through & their stuff either thrown away or prepared for sale. (There's to be a Tag sale of furniture & collectibles sometime this month.)
I felt physically ill yesterday when I saw that my mothers walk in bedroom closet was half emptied out
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