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Post by priceoverride on Jan 24, 2009 16:40:17 GMT -5
I've been giving your problem some thought as I've worked today. Many questions came to mind : Why? How? When? Why? do you feel you need to keep every hint, recipe, advice, joke, etc... I think because it makes your feel in control. Knowledge is Power. Because you have that knowledge at your fingertips, you have power over anyone else, because you know the answers. You thumb your nose at the world, because "You Know".. How? do you keep it under control..... Firstly, I think you feel in control because you file it, but it seems that the paper controls you. It encroaches on your living space, it's ruling your life. You need to take back that control and start to reduce or condense what you have. You've already read the articles, so have already gained the knowledge, with the exception of the larger articles, you may know the smaller pieces well, so they can be eliminated from the file. Even if it's only one scrap per week or day. When? Well, there's no time like the present. But, just a tiny bit at a time. You will not lose that knowledge for it's in your memory. Just my take on this ... I used to suffer from piles of paper, newscuttings, etc. but I've kept very few of them now. My resistance was probably much less than yours though, only you know for sure how attached you are to these. Perhaps shedding some old stuff to make room for the new? Then keep going?
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Post by valor on Jan 24, 2009 17:52:48 GMT -5
paperpiler,
Thank you for sharing this with us. I am very addicted to books, magazines, and yes- the internet too. It's my way of "mood changing". With non-fiction, I feel that if I find just the right information-I could solve whatever problems I have. As for the mood-changing aspect: I have used reading and information gathering to soothe myself since I was a little girl. Reading fiction has helped me take a break from and excape anxiety by losing myself in what I was reading. I've used reading fiction and nonfiction, magazines, gathering information etc. to numb my feelings. If I start to feel too much mental pain, I pick up something to read-it's automatic for me.
I tried to cut back on my magazines by clipping things out as well-and do the same with newspapers. Experiencing some of the same problems with the clippings as you are. The suggestions here will be helpful for me. Thank you so much paperpiler and responding posters for such articulate and thoughtful replies.
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Calico
New Member
Joined: October 2011
Posts: 59
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Post by Calico on Jan 24, 2009 18:30:58 GMT -5
I'm wondering if you've brought this up with your therapist. If not, consider doing that.....I think he might help you find some answers.
I have paper problems, too....and also think I'm going to work on the papers every weekend, and then usually get only one or two small projects done, if anything. One thing I've done, though, is stop bringing in much new stuff. I try not to pick up brochures, cut out articles, etc. Keep in mind that you can find just about anything you need online, and the information will be more up to date than something you've had in a file for several years.
Paper stuff seems to require a different process than dealing with other household items, for me anyway. It's much harder to make quick decisions and get things put away in the right place. It's on ongoing process for me....
Calico
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Blackswan
Banned
Joined: October 2008
Posts: 6,388
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Post by Blackswan on Jan 24, 2009 22:01:15 GMT -5
I am going to mention this out of love....in your original post, there were a lot of rationalizations, and "excuses" for your paper hoarding. It seems like maybe you know it is a problem, but maybe you are not really ready to stop just yet? It can be very hard to let go of things that are such a big part of our lives, even if we know they are hurting us. I wouldn't bring that up, except it might help you think a little more about your true feelings about this.
You mentioned you have tried to get it all filed before you clip more. How about filing every NEW thing you clip, and filing five to ten old pieces each day? Maybe if you commit to filing ten old pieces, you will end up actually filing much more on some days?
Another thing you mentioned was that you were able to keep your books neat. How would it be to just save the magazines for awhile, instead of cutting them up? I know you don't want to keep the whole thing around, but maybe for awhile it would work better for you?
Even if you aren't ready to start TODAY, it is ok, because now you are really thinking about it, and soon you will be ready to make the big change...It is coming soon!
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Post by paperpiler on Jan 24, 2009 22:06:56 GMT -5
Thank you all for your generous and thought-provoking responses. Lots of thinking to do.
Let's see...some things to add on:
I'm definitely a perfectionist. The files are "right" or things don't go in the files. (The file cabinet is like "sacred ground" that way).
I don't fear the future (except financially and wondering if I will quite conceivably and realistically end up as a bag lady) and hold on to nothing else from the past like I do paper.
I don't save anything like check carbons or bank statements that aren't useful...never have. What I save is 100% useful, valid, relevant. If it gets too old...like a 2002 article on great hairstyles (for lack of a better example), it was already gone by 2003. Oh, and I also go through my file cabinet once every month or so and actually WEED OUT that which I might not have an interest in anymore (as you can imagine, that's not much, or else it wouldn't have entered the file cabinet anyway). So what I have isn't tattered stuff from 1994.
Going through the organized files is comforting. Feeling the paper is comforting. Being around the new paper that's stapled together and ready to file is comforting. Being around the piles that face me, the overflow, the pages missing, the frustration at not being able to find something important in the piles...is not. Yin and yang, joy and sorrow again.
I definitely think Vega is on to something about trying to find solid ground where there really isn't any. When everything else falls apart, the papers are there. When no one else will comfort, the papers will comfort. If I could build a house of love from paper, I probably would...as a shelter, a protector, a nurturer, a comfort. Paper is my safety mechanism and my trigger for good thoughts. It's something I can control when all else is crumbling. Knowledge is my passion, and I DO feel extremely generous and giving with my knowledge, and yet I do feel miserly in that I feel like the "house" will crumble without being surrounded by it. But my feelings have changed in the last six months. What was once c'mon get it together, you've been doing this for years...is now I just HAVE to find out why I DO this. That much I've figured out. Paper is TRULY my joy and TRULY my turmoil, so perhaps it's that organized paper is truly my joy and all the rest is truly my turmoil. As Moggy suggested, no wonder I feel so conflicted about it.
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Post by paperpiler on Jan 24, 2009 22:14:25 GMT -5
[With non-fiction, I feel that if I find just the right information-I could solve whatever problems I have. As for the mood-changing aspect: I have used reading and information gathering to soothe myself since I was a little girl.]
Valor, you also hit upon two other crucial things:
1. The vast majority of what I read is nonfiction. It's about solving something, or how people have accomplished something (like career transitions, goal setting step by step to achieve something big, financial goal setting, etc.). I feel tremendously empowered in learning from those who have "gone before". And yet, I don't feel at all like I'm nothing. My self-esteem is pretty healthy. I'm a very confident person, and a go-getter at every thing I do.
2. SOOTHING...YES! This information gathering is SOOTHING. Reading is soothing. Having it around me when it's organized is soothing. And because I did not have friends growing up and because my life has been so tumultuous...THIS is something that is soothing. When I have the opportunity to just "do" something with it all, that's soothing. Tremendously soothing. For the rest of the time, when I have to be somewhere, get other things done, find something under time pressures, etc....it's not soothing. It's stressful.
And when I look at the big picture of what I've created around me, that's not soothing.
Joy and sorrow. Again.
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Post by paperpiler on Jan 24, 2009 22:31:49 GMT -5
Oh no, I totally agree with you.
After a history that goes back to my young teen years with this--when I was so lonely and living in a dysfunctional family--to now, my thoughts in the past six months have evolved. Now it's become much more about answering the question WHY so I can get to the bottom of this, than it is about having this idea that well, I'll just clean it up and everything will be in order, and won't that be great.
That's why I posted it. It's been really bothering me. I wasn't able to find answers, because usually when I read about hoarding, it's about hoarding THINGS of some sort...not paper. Or IF it's about hoarding paper, it's about saving stacks of magazines one can't throw away or recycle, saving stacks of daily newspapers to the ceiling...but not this. This is more specific, more defined, more purposeful in its creation. In one way, it has the same end result, and yet, I go back to that joy and sorrow caused by the same thing.
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Post by paperpiler on Jan 24, 2009 22:37:17 GMT -5
[You mentioned you have tried to get it all filed before you clip more. How about filing every NEW thing you clip, and filing five to ten old pieces each day? Maybe if you commit to filing ten old pieces, you will end up actually filing much more on some days? Another thing you mentioned was that you were able to keep your books neat. How would it be to just save the magazines for awhile, instead of cutting them up? I know you don't want to keep the whole thing around, but maybe for awhile it would work better for you?] The problem at this point is that there's so much that's critical to find (deadlines and such) that are with all the other papers now...so I have to find a way to quick sort this stuff so I can find them. Wait...save the magazines? Don't they tell you to get RID of magazines? j/k I know what you mean. Actually, I've tried that. I've sat there with a stack of five or six that I've read...literally ITCHING to start tearing them apart. <sigh> And eventually, the compulsion to rip em up overpowers the "no, just let them sit until you get some of this other crap out.' I think if I could make better sense of all of it, I'd probably be ready to ditch all the excess in a heartbeat. But I just can't seem to let go. I wish I could. Why is it so *** easy to get rid of anything that's a THING..and so *** hard to get rid of paper?
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Post by fluffychild on Jan 24, 2009 23:16:45 GMT -5
My mother and grandmother would clip all kinds of articles. I have gradually been getting rid of them - recipes - if they have sugar in them - they go, I don't do any cooking, so I don't need to keep any recipes. I have clipped very few articles. The copies on my image checks are kept for 7 years - all neat in a loose leaf notebook - filed by bank and account number. I have lost a lot fewer statements since I bought the three hole punch. Sometimes if a magzine or article is old - the sweetest sound is the ripping of paper. Most of the information that a person needs can be found on the net. There was an interesting thing label Video on this site - it was a presentation by Rita Emmett. She related how she threw out tons of stuff, and a week after she threw out her Dolly Pardon diet, her niece wanted it. She said so what, it was not the end of the world. I sat an listened to that video over and over for at least a half hour. I can hear it in my brain when I think of saving something - so what, it is not the end of the world. All my new scandal sheets go out every two weeks - I give them to a friend who enjoys them, and being a messie - I don't put the covers out. It will have to be your own time of when you get rid of things. If you are a true messie, like me, I instill in my mind, that I cannot bring anything into the house that is not food or cat litter unless I really need it. I try to go through things and throw something out everyday. I know for me that I have a long, long road to go down - one house completely full, and an apartment with the goat paths. One step at a time.
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Post by paperpiler on Jan 24, 2009 23:35:40 GMT -5
[Sometimes if a magzine or article is old - the sweetest sound is the ripping of paper.]
Another thing I enjoy...IF it's something I don't care about or if it's old. Love that ripping paper sound. Love scissors. Love cutting up stuff. <sigh>
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Blackswan
Banned
Joined: October 2008
Posts: 6,388
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Post by Blackswan on Jan 25, 2009 4:41:32 GMT -5
You're trying to create a world you never had. You are creating a little nest out of special pieces of paper. Choosing the pieces you want, and keeping them close to you forever, and throwing away the ones you don't want. The printed word is permanent, unchanging, stable. You can control it. It speaks to you, keeps you company, is your friend. You don't ever have to be lonely if you have a good book or good magazine article. You can ignore anything that is going on around you if you can immerse yourself in your reading...
But wait. You are unhappy. The pieces are piling up, you can't find the things you need. You start to feel out of control, helpless. But you can't get rid of it, you need it! You need more of it! It is your best friend. But it is drowning you!
Immersing yourself in the world of knowledge, written knowledge that does not allow outside thoughts to creep in the way just thinking would, was the strategy you used to cope as a young person.
Does this strategy continue to work for you now? Are there better strategies/coping mechanisms? Is this serving the same purpose as before? Does paper hoarding help you lead the life you want to live?
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Post by Script on Jan 25, 2009 13:27:23 GMT -5
You can ignore anything that is going on around you if you can immerse yourself in your reading... Immersing yourself in the world of knowledge, written knowledge that does not allow outside thoughts to creep in the way just thinking would, was the strategy you used to cope as a young person. Dear Black Swan (and all reading-posting here): I can relate so much to this idea. I have always been a voracious, even AVARICIOUS, reader. To the extent that I much preferred the world of books to my own real-life-life. The happier I have become, the less I need to escape into reading. I read every day, of course. But I can also do and enjoy many MANY many other things. When I de-cluttered my home basement library (Oct'04) at first I was appalled at my task----each and every book was a friend. It represented so much: knowledge, discipline, achievement. After a while I felt liberated. I got rid of about 700 books, all read, many more than once. I just kept reminding myself that there are still about 700 left in my home, PLUS an almost infinite number in the library! I had a work colleague who was a widow with 3 young boys (teens, pre-teens). There was zillions of relationship problems amongst and between them and their extended families. At first I was soooo impressed that the boys were 'good' students who 'loved' reading. Then I realized that the kids were using books to escape from the reality of their lives. In today's world, who would expect to see kids that read TOO MUCH!?!?!?! My colleague told me more than once that people commented on their kids' reading habits in negative ways.....so it truly is possible to put too much store on knowledge, control, respect for learning, etc. Please know that no one here dismisses concerns about paper lightly. No, no one is going to say, "just do it". good luck from Script
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Post by paperpiler on Jan 25, 2009 14:59:25 GMT -5
[You're trying to create a world you never had. You are creating a little nest out of special pieces of paper. Choosing the pieces you want, and keeping them close to you forever, and throwing away the ones you don't want. The printed word is permanent, unchanging, stable. You can control it.]
True. Really great observation. That struck a chord.
[It speaks to you, keeps you company, is your friend. You don't ever have to be lonely if you have a good book or good magazine article.]
Loneliness comes in different ways for different people. I'd say that it's more that I've never been bored as long as they're around. Actually, I can't remember the last time I've been bored in my life. I'm usually very puzzled by people who say they're bored.
Anyone goes through feelings of loneliness, especially if you live alone (as I do). One can be lonely in a horrible marriage. (I was.) To me, loneliness and boredom are different.
[You can ignore anything that is going on around you if you can immerse yourself in your reading]
Will strongly disagree with that one. I spend many, many hours each day trying to remedy situations by reaching out (without going into too much detail), and I consider that to be one of my biggest strengths. If anything, I DON'T ignore anything going on around me--just about more than anyone else I can think of. I'm not one to bury my head in the sand and pretend things don't exist. I think it's a mistake to suggest that the soothing feelings that I get from paper mean that I shut out life's problems that way.
I can't concentrate on books much anymore because they're too time-consuming with all that's going on, and because I fall asleep in the first chapter or so. I save magazines to read as a late night treat/reward for getting through another day most of the time; short articles work better for me.
[Immersing yourself in the world of knowledge, written knowledge that does not allow outside thoughts to creep in the way just thinking would, was the strategy you used to cope as a young person.]
I've always been a thinker and a doer.
But, as I said, this particular outlet is both soothing and troubling for me.
[Does this strategy continue to work for you now? Are there better strategies/coping mechanisms? Is this serving the same purpose as before? Does paper hoarding help you lead the life you want to live?]
No. Yes, but not sure what. No. And no. :-)
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Post by paperpiler on Jan 25, 2009 15:03:59 GMT -5
I do think we're getting to something here. I think it's a combination of what Vega said and the first paragraph of what BlackSwan said. Those things make a LOT of sense in how I feel about all this.
Thanks for ALL input. Whether I agree or disagree, each time someone says something, it adds to my thought process. The best way to come to a realization of something, for me, is to use or discard ideas until it all starts to make sense.
Now I just have to figure out how to deal with a healthier approach to remedying what's in front of me, rather than let it continue to be here and build its own shed out back. ;-)
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Post by vega on Jan 25, 2009 17:16:02 GMT -5
I have always found that the things about myself that confound me the most are defense mechanisms that have out grown their usefulness. Things developed in one situation that are maladaptive for the newer (hopefully healthier) situations I'm now in. Those are the behaviors hardest to let go of, because it seems almost... ungrateful to turn my back on something that saw me through some truly awful times.
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