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Post by morethanyouneed on Dec 3, 2009 23:37:06 GMT -5
I've not read through this entire thread, so forgive if I'm covering ground that's already been tread.
Why, may I ask, are so many quick to *** A&E for "exploiting" Augustine yet not praise the fact that those "exploiters" cleaned (literally) TONS of garbage from her home? That woman had 8 000 POUNDS of garbage in her home. A&E got rid of that garbage. They are also footing the bill for aftercare. If not for A&E - who would have done that?It's also A&E's interest in this woman that is funding repairs of her home. It's also A&E putting up money to give Augustine "aftercare." So slam A&E all you'd like...and I know many of you do so rabidly...at least they have brought improvement to Augustine's life even if it was just to get rid of her garbage and to get some repairs made on her home.
I'm not suggesting we turn into a society where everyone and everything is for sale, but from where I sit, Augustine is better off for the intrusion.
Not to mention? Augustine's son is posting on several different forums. Besides confirming that A&E painted him in the right light (as a kind, funny man) he has confirmed most of what was presented by A&E. It's awfully nice to think that the big bad network painted someone in an unfavourable light for the sake of ratings...but sometimes...people just aren't that easy to like. It's nice to cut people some slack and assume the best of them, but some people simply aren't that nice. They aren't that caring. They just aren't like-able. No matter how a TV show paints them.
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Post by serenitynow on Dec 3, 2009 23:39:16 GMT -5
Yes the show was heavily edited and geared toward sensationalism. Yes the show was only an hour. But- during that hour, Augustine made comments and behaved in a completely consistent way throughout and if someone is "non plussed" about it and feels that behavior contributes to the hoarding, I don't think it's inappropriate to bring it up in a group about hoarding , clutter and improving our state. We are all human beings and those of us who participate on the board live in various continuums on the clutter scale. However we are each unique people who, unless we're seriously nonfunctional, deal with our problems in our own unique way. We are not all the same though we may share a common problem. Commenting on aspects that were particularly disturbing should not, in my opinion, have to be worded in such a way as to not offend that person should they come to the board- particularly if that person is a master at passing the buck. As gini stated above, some are not up to or capable of self reflection and would not search out this board for help- which is generously given when asked. I would not be upset should Augustine read what I've written. Of all the past participants in the show,she refused to step up to the plate in any way. Her terribly frustrated children echoed that truth. That's all I said and I almost didn't but since I was asked to elaborate on an earlier posting and these behaviors were already brought up, I wrote what I felt. Perhaps I should have left it at "I was not impressed." If I acted in that manner while my home was being cleared out- with my approval, though under duress- then I would not be surprised in the least if I were called on it. If I was behaving like that due solely to a mental illness, then I would not be searching out this thread for improvement. That's all I'm going to say (or read) on this (not as a temper tantrum or in a snit). I feel my motives were completely misunderstood and this whole thing seems to be getting out of hand. It was an opinion and a legitimate one and I stuck to the issues in explaining my reactions..it wasn't a generalized " She's mean, she's a slob, she only thinks of herself" etc. I backed up my reasons. This brouhaha has become very triggering to me. I dreaded coming to the board tonight. serenitynow P.S. Lioness, thank you for acknowledging the icon removals. In hindsight, they were over the top. Peach, dear friend, thank you for helping to put all this in perspective. Peace to all and a sincere hope that Augustine's eyes are opened to all the caring people surrounding her now that weren't there for her in her earlier life.
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Post by disorganizeddragon on Dec 3, 2009 23:48:16 GMT -5
Why can't Hoarders be on 10 hours a day, 7 days a week, for 2 years? Then I could watch someone make a step-by-step, one-insight-at-a-time, realistic journey out of squalor. It would be fascinating. To me. Audience base of 1. It's a weekly show. We know it will over-dramatize, exaggerate, cut corners, etc. to squeeze that great big, messy, complex story into one hour. Augustine stirred up negative reactions from us because of her seeming callousness about the deaths of her pets. Her seeming lack of anxiety with strangers removing her stuff. Her seeming resentment towards her daughter. Her seeming indifference to her son. Her seeming lack of gratitude about the new chair. We look for the signs of common human emotions to help us relate to Augustine. But she came across as flat and robotic, and so it's very hard to bond with her. You know that if Augustine joined SOOS she would be welcomed and supported, and we wouldn't judge her at all. But to be here at SOOS means that one day you said 'Enough'. That one day you drew a line in the sand. That one day you reached out for help. And that now EVERYDAY you fight the good fight against your squalor. Augustine is not at that point. I am grateful to Hoarder's, for all its faults. Because it opened my eyes to my squalorous tendencies. Because it made me want to know more. Because it led me here to all of you. gini Gini, I loved your post. And the show you talked about, watching someone make small, but meaningful steps out of squalor over time? I'd watch it, too, so make that an audience base of two.
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Post by gini on Dec 4, 2009 10:59:58 GMT -5
Gini, I loved your post. And the show you talked about, watching someone make small, but meaningful steps out of squalor over time? I'd watch it, too, so make that an audience base of two. Nice to find a kindred soul, disorganized dragon! We could watch it together. I'll make the popcorn. gini
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Post by Script on Dec 4, 2009 11:19:46 GMT -5
Why can't Hoarders be on 10 hours a day, 7 days a week, for 2 years? Then I could watch someone make a step-by-step, one-insight-at-a-time, realistic journey out of squalor. It would be fascinating. To me. Audience base of 1. Next best thing: *the original KIMMY thread from Julie Morgenstern *"what's holding you back?" *the nucleus of the original Squalor Survivors *Kimmy took small one-step-at-a-time realistic journey, cheered on by various folks some of whom are STILL HERE cheering people on at Soos here is the link............ www.squalorsurvivors.com/resources/index.shtmlmultiple formats showing this incredible journey are no longer available: use this......web archive web.archive.org/web/20040815071304/http://juliemorgenstern.com/ubb/Forum4/HTML/000042.htmlit's not TV, it doesn't have sound and visuals and editing: but it is completely gripping REALITY.
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Post by CourageouslyLion SeeksSerenity on Dec 4, 2009 11:34:27 GMT -5
Next best thing: *the original KIMMY thread from Julie Morgenstern *"what's holding you back?" *the nucleus of the original Squalor Survivors *Kimmy took small one-step-at-a-time realistic journey, cheered on by various folks some of whom are STILL HERE cheering people on at Soos
showing this incredible journey
it's not TV, it doesn't have sound and visuals and editing: but it is completely gripping REALITY. Clickable linkweb.archive.org/web/20040815071304/http://juliemorgenstern.com/ubb/Forum4/HTML/000042.htmlAND ... it DOES have visuals, here:www.squalorsurvivors.com/pictures/kimmy/index.shtml(scroll to bottom of page and click "start picture show") -- and then you can see each room, by clicking on "next page" at bottom of each page. Note that the photos are copyright.). Yes ... it is completely gripping REALITY AND ... there is a one-year-later follow-up post here: www.squalorsurvivors.com/pictures/kimmy/may20th2002.shtmlKimmy saved many lives by telling her story and posting pictures. I know she saved my life. -
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Post by procrastinator on Dec 4, 2009 18:44:16 GMT -5
There's another participant-to-be on Hoarders that's been posting on TwoP. I sent her the link to the site said how supportive everyone is. Hopefully she makes her way over here.
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Post by mellowyellow on Dec 5, 2009 23:41:39 GMT -5
Watched it tonight. Had to grit my teeth through the entire episode. Literally grinding my teeth with frustration and a sense of despair and futility.
Poor poor son. Poor poor man. 10 YEARS raised by his young single sister!! Makes me cry for lost childhoods and lost dreams. For both of the children really.
As someone who has had to literally claw my way to order and cleanliness... as someone who struggles with maintaining my household daily...
and as someone who has had to prove myself beyond any doubt, through regular inspections and courses and interviews (in order to one day have the privilege of adopting a child)... it literally BREAKS MY HEART to have this very visual image of squalor and its affects on this young man. And throughout the show, not a single "sorry son" in the sordid pot of misery.
seriously seems like a new ring to dante's inferno. Neglectors of suffering children.
This is a difficult topic for me. It seems that my ability to empathize with my fellow squalorees only extends as far as they are able to safely care and emotionally protect their children and pets. Sink pudding? Bring it on. Dirty laundry? No problem. Piles of clutter? Whatever. Yucky toilet? Sure, let me cheer you on... But give me child neglect? Urghhh. Depression or not.. I struggle with accepting that with an encouraging smile. I am sure that is a lack in my sense of compassion.
but I just can't .. really can't feel sorry for her.
Perhaps this is an example of where i need to grow.
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Post by lostagain on Dec 6, 2009 6:53:10 GMT -5
I remember, years ago, seeing some show on hoarding. It may have been on a 60 Minutes type news show, I can't remember the show. And it had a woman on there and someone had this notebook of hers and she opened it up and said "I can't throw this out, it has some blank pages left." And that was like a lightning bolt to me. I thought: THAT IS EXACTLY HOW I WOULD SEE THAT NOTEBOOK. It made me feel so much less alone, and in addition, sometimes when you see things like that, that are apart from you, yet relateable, you can "see" your behavior, and it helps. In other words, in that instant, not only did I relate to the hoarder and see myself in her, I realized that it would be okay to throw away a notebook with a few blank pages in it still. I admit to being the type of person that seeks out all the shows on hoarding/squalor that I can, some of them have been so revealing as to "why" I am "this way". Obviously there are a million different reasons, but it helps me to see other people who are relateable. Haha I'm sure that didn't make any sense.
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Post by serenitynow on Dec 6, 2009 7:05:47 GMT -5
Oh mellow, I am really in agreement with you- and I've got the battle scars to prove it! I know EXACTLY where you're coming from (9 miscarriages ). When people brush aside the pain they've inflicted on children and animals in their care without a sniff of pity or compassion (and that has to be a form of mental illness) then for me the line is drawn..particularly if they're extremely adept at holding themselves COMPLETELY unaccountable yet are able to check off the list of horrors done to them and their accompanying pain. serenitynow P.S. I said I was done posting here but your response deeply affected me. lostagain- makes perfect sense to me.
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Post by CourageouslyLion SeeksSerenity on Dec 6, 2009 7:58:13 GMT -5
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Post by success19 on Dec 7, 2009 21:05:24 GMT -5
I finally caught the Augistine episode this Sunday in repeats - it made me so sad - I do think Augustine has severe health issues - both mentally and physically. Maybe mold illness (she had breating problems - but also mold can damage the brain) - maybe strokes and dementia - I wonder if she has had a complete physical evaluation? Trully at 68 she might be better off in assisted living in some form.
8000 pounds of trash - I cannot comprehend this at all.
I know a level 5 - I don't think the show was unkind in anyway and the people there were instead very very kind.
I do know her daughter and son were frustrated - but I can understand that reaction.
Tonight another episode!
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Post by breakingfree on Dec 8, 2009 9:24:34 GMT -5
Oh mellow, I am really in agreement with you- and I've got the battle scars to prove it! I know EXACTLY where you're coming from (9 miscarriages ). When people brush aside the pain they've inflicted on children and animals in their care without a sniff of pity or compassion (and that has to be a form of mental illness) then for me the line is drawn..particularly if they're extremely adept at holding themselves COMPLETELY unaccountable yet are able to check off the list of horrors done to them and their accompanying pain. serenitynow P.S. I said I was done posting here but your response deeply affected me. lostagain- makes perfect sense to me. I speak here as both a person with hoarding tendencies and a person who grew up with a hoarder and in squalor. I realize we are all at different places in our lives. Some of us are ready to receive help. Some of us are not. There are detailed posts elsewhere about the different phases. My mother is a hoarder. I hated my childhood home. At that time, no one knew about hoarding or had a clue as to what it was. We were just "nasty." Now that people are becoming more aware of what it is, there is more help and understanding available. Yet, just as with alcoholics or drug addicts (and IMHO, hoarding is a form of addiction--it is an addiction to things and those things are more important than your family) we do not try to justify the fact that innocent children are drawn into these situations. We do not say, "Oh, she is a drug addict, she is at least on a board talking about it." We would all be horrified to know that there was arguing, passing out in one's own vomit, etc., occurring while the children are in the home. Yet, out of fear of offending someone, we cannot utter anything that may be construed as "offensive" to a potential member. Life is what it is. It is real. The truth is sometimes not pretty. I have been guilty of putting things over people. I have been squalorous. I wish so much that I could go back, but now all I can do is go forward and be the best mother and grandmother I can be. I love my family here at SooS because you understand what I have gone through. I also know that many of you would tell me in a heartbeat to throw away that old purse or that stove on the porch (theoretically speaking) because you are encouraging me to get better and to maintain what I have accomplished. Coddling people does nothing but enable them. I have not always been ready for the truth. I was not always easy to deal with. My mother, sadly, will never change, and I wish she would because she could have had the lovely home she had always dreamed of. I love you guys and I hope that you continue to give me "tough love." BF
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Post by StuffNoMore on Dec 8, 2009 9:37:20 GMT -5
I too just saw the Augustine episode on Hoarders and it left me so sad for all 3 of them. From a Medical prospective as a Nurse there is something deeper than what the viewers can see with her. I really don't think she knows she comes off to some folks as uncaring or ungrateful. Her flat affect isn't the norm and I truly hope they can be of some help to her with the after care she'll be given.
I guess it's unfair to make any type of judgment re: any of the them until we've walked in their shoes and been through all they have which we may never know. Yes, she's a Hoarder as we are but she also has some very very deep mental issues going on which have probably been there for more years than some of us have been alive. I can see some of the patients I have cared for in her and I truly help she can get some type of help to have her be able to enjoy some of the life she has left on this earth.
My heart goes out to them all and I sincerely hope one day someone can help her so she can live a safe and somewhat content life.
SNM
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KathEEE
New Member
Joined: September 2009
Posts: 35
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Post by KathEEE on Dec 8, 2009 9:54:06 GMT -5
:-*Greetings everyone. After reading all these posts and all the back and forth between everyone, I really only have one thought. Thank goodness for A&E doing this program--ratings or not and for each individual person participating, be they the hoarder or relatives of same or the great workers who go through these houses to clean them.
These folks are so very brave to let this embarrassing and shameful way of life out into the public--thank you, thank you, thank you so much for allowing the light to shine on this painful disorder. It is so complicated and secret and in order to get all of us out of this dark place, there must be light on it! I believe there are many more of us than anyone knows--we need help coming through and out of this "mess."
From the bottom of my heart, thank you, each and everyone involved in the programs for allowing the light in--my hope is there will be less shame and the more light, the more of us will be able to come out into the bright sunshine. It is so wonderful out here in the light!! God bless everyone of us trying desperately to move past this dark disorder. KathEEE
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