|
|
Post by iprocrastinate on Dec 11, 2009 22:36:20 GMT -5
 Lion as usual you bring much wisdom. Morethanyouneed did not attack, just questioned. I have poste a long response in the other thread as to my feelings. Her is my post--think of me as you will!! ""I feel the need to add my 2 cents. When I read Script's post with the in quotes eyetalians and other ethnics, I too was taken aback. I am from the northeast and the term eyetie and dago and wop are all used and are all offensive. I felt like in some way the quotation marks were used as she realized the word might bother someone. I have been here for over a year and a half and personally have read all Script's post and didn't know she was Italian. I knew she liked good food and pastries and wine, but not her ethnicity. Therefore to say someone shouldn't take offense with a term that in many areas is treated like the "n" word, just because she doesn't know the person is an Italian and poking fun is ridiculous. Script has done many good things for this board. She also made an insensitive remark and should graciously apologize for any offense that was taken. Her followup tirade was truly sad and unacceptable to me. I will continue to visit this board as it is very helpful to me in my attempts to get out of clutter and squalor. I don't feel the original comment by morethan youneed was an insult. It was phrased quite neutrally and I looked forward to an explanation for use of those demeaning terms. Who are "other ethnics"? That sentence wasn't necessary to the post and the violent reactions of old time members have kind of put me off a little. As I said in a year and a half I don't know or care what anyone's race, religion, or ethnicity is . We are here for a purpose to change our way of living and taking care of ourselves, families and belongings. I'm not here to be best buddies, although I care very much about the members of this board. There, that's more than 2 cents worth but I needed to get my feelilngs out too. I hope they both stay and can benefit from the board and the help it gives us all."
|
|
|
|
Post by iprocrastinate on Dec 11, 2009 22:44:45 GMT -5
Lion, I've sent you a personal message.
I really just want to clean my house and my head.
|
|
|
|
Post by timetochange on Dec 11, 2009 22:51:22 GMT -5
iprocrastinate, you were more eloquent than I. Thank you.
|
|
|
|
Post by skatters on Dec 11, 2009 23:08:22 GMT -5
Script,
You have contributed so much to both groups. If you choose to leave, we will miss you greatly. You have shared wonderfully insightful posts about how you got out of squalor. And I have loved the reminders that came when you share about your need for self-care.
I can understand being ready to step down from a moderator status if you feel the need to step back. But don't leave on THIS note. Take a time out, figure out where you want to be, and in what capacity - but then come back to us. In any form.
We love and appreciate you.
|
|
|
|
Post by bluerose on Dec 11, 2009 23:25:11 GMT -5
This is all very sad  I keep trying to write a reply and just can't put my thoughts together right. Lion's short and simple post here pretty much sums up how I feel: Also, I have to wonder if this could all be some kind of horrible misunderstanding rooted in regional norms? Some say this is a terrible slur where they live, while others don't perceive it as a slur at all. I think there are plenty of words that have different meanings/connotations/degrees of acceptability in different regions/countries. I don't know. Personally, I had no initial reaction to the "eye-talian" word because I'd never even heard of that before, so it was neutral to me. It looks to me that both Script and Morethanyouneed have felt hurt and attacked, and that makes me feel sad. I think lots of people have lashed out in varying degrees, things feel tense and angry right now but maybe after everyone has cooled off, people can talk through things and get along again. I really hope so, and that no one will leave and everyone will feel safe and okay here again. PS To Script: I've not been here long so don't really know you, but I do read all your posts and have an understanding of how much you have vested in this wonderful board and the history involved. I think it would be tragic for you to leave because of what's happened here. As others have said, if you want a break then by all means take one! And if you want to step down then that's your decision alone. But please please please don't do it because of this. That would just be heartbreaking in a way I can't put into words. |
|
|
|
Post by charis on Dec 11, 2009 23:31:38 GMT -5
I am an earnest and old-fashioned liberal. I notice with distress that people often sneer about political correctness as an excuse to say nasty things with no remorse.
That is not Script! In reading both her Holiday prep and ordinary time blogs I have been struck at the diversity of people she counts as friends and neighbors. I have read about her carefully preparing a holiday gift for a Jewish friend. I have been on vacation with her for heaven's sake, in a group of people who were gay/straight, christian/pagan Italian, Scottish, Cajun, etc. etc. If she made a remark about people of various ethnicities it was undoubtedly with a sense of relish at the richness of it all.
Poking fun at one's own ethnicity/religion is a time-honored way of enjoying and declaring an identity while making a bridge to others
I think it was right for the questioner to ask for clarification about something that seemed morally troubling to her--she took Script literally and was unaware of her heritage.
But when Script responded with the requested clarification, the questioner's follow up post was merely goading--and that is the action of a troll. That post is really where the break in civility occurred. Script continued the incivility with a vengeance, but it was a one-time gaffe in a history of thoughtful and kind responses.
She met sanctimony with some bleeped obscenities. Given the choice between sanctimony and obscenity and ire, I will take obscenity and ire.
I hope Script stays. She must find it tiresome and embarrassing to be at the center of this maelstrom.
Newcomers are welcome to be as assertive in their opinions as anyone, but they shouldn't be surprised if their chosen opponent "gives them a handful right back" as we say in Texas.
|
|
|
|
Post by moggyfan on Dec 11, 2009 23:31:52 GMT -5
- Moggyfan, You know I love you and owe you gratitude for a favor you once did me. But ... I get really upset that whenever a member gets upset, you post the "flounce" link.This is NOT a baseball or knitting forum. People have no other desqualoring forum to go to. Let's NOT make fun of people for wanting to leave. Geez moggyfan. - Just to set the record straight: Because I am just.this.crazy., I actually scrolled back through all 713 posts I have made on this forum. Before tonight, I posted that link ONCE, on September 21, 2008, when someone made an equally insulting exit from the board. |
|
|
|
Post by still on Dec 11, 2009 23:33:03 GMT -5
My take on Script's post was that she was using the condensending way others have referred to Italian-Canadians and throwing it back at them.
Here was a problem that all the high-level, noses in the air muckity-mucks had failed to resolve for YEARS and along comes a team of men, who these muckity-mucks would consider beneath them, and in a short time they sort it all out.
Maybe Script should appologize to the bigoted people in power because she pointed out that those they call by an ethnic slur are smarter than they are? Are more honest?
It's so easy to not understand the nuances of what someone says and it's even harder to catch the nuances of what is written and posted. BUT, knowing the intensity of my Italian friend - full Italian from Italy the intensity of the feelings about all of this is very Italian. (I'd laugh but it would probably offend someone - no Italian jokes allowed. How about an Anglo-Saxon joke? Englishmen and those of us of English descent have always laughed at ourselves.)
May Script be given the respect she deserves as one who takes care of this board and as a very senior member. And may all ruffled feathers be soothed. And may there be an agreement to not feud.
Peace. blessings, success and happiness to all who enter here.
|
|
|
|
Post by Celeste on Dec 11, 2009 23:39:36 GMT -5
I think there has been an overreaction on the part of both sides, so I'm locking the thread to prevent further flames. I urge Script and Morethanyouneed to realize that neither of you meant to demean or insult the other -- until you forgot to give each other the benefit of the doubt.
Can we do that , please?
|
|
