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Post by MsHavisham on Dec 27, 2009 0:05:14 GMT -5
I have written about Nosy Neighbor - the cuckoo clock of the damned - before. She is the one who pops out from the bottom of our stairs blocking the exit door in her attempt to see who is coming out, who is coming in, what I'm bringing out, what is coming in, etc.
Nosy is also very sensitive to sounds which is another impediment to my de-cluttering. She complains to me that she hears the other neighbor's baby crying next door - and they don't even share a common wall.
I live directly over Nosy, A couple years ago she told me that I must "drop things a lot" and that the sound of my walking overhead was frightening her grandchild. As a result, I never wear shoes inside and have a very tiny window of opportunity to do any housework after work so she won't complain about my walking around.
Back to the current time: Usually I go away at Xmas time, but this year I had to stay home. Christmas Eve she had her kids and grandkids over and they were LOUD - as they often are. Doors banging, kids shouting, people in and out. I didn't mind that at all. Let kids be kids.
My "mistake" was thinking that I could live like a normal person while it was noisy. About 7:30, I decided to put together a kitchen cart with casters.
Christmas morning, there came a knock on the door. Nosy was there, very upset, saying that she just didn't know what she was going to do if I couldn't endure a bit of noise when she had the kids over for the holiday.. she knows they were noisy but it's Christmas after all...blah blah hysterics blah blah
I had no clue what she was talking about and told her so.
She said, "Well you knocked on the wall for us to be quiet!"
I told her I'd done no such thing.
"Well then you thumped on the floor! I heard you!"
I told I did not and would not bang on the wall or floor for her guests to be quiet. That's rude. She might have heard me assembling a gift.
So then she said was soooo glad I hadn't been trying to shush them because she was having more guests Christmas day and Saturday - but that my noise had frightened her grandchild.
I was so shocked I didn't know what to say and didn't say anything. I think I have effectively been told that SHE can make noise, but expects me to just sit quietly all day ON CHRISTMAS while she whoops it up with her guests.
I don't have a tv. I use headphones when I want to listen to loud music. I'm gone 12 hours most days and try not to even walk around too much after 8:30. Basically, when I'm home, I live like Anne Frank because Nosy will complain or inquire every time a board squeaks up here.
I am at the end of my rope. Nosy left for a few days several weeks ago and I got SO MUCH DONE while I could live a normal person again. I've decided I'm tired of placating her. I want my life back. I know I need to confront her, but I'm not sure how to do it.
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Post by Celeste on Dec 27, 2009 0:57:10 GMT -5
Perhaps next time you want to clean, just drop in ahead of time that you'll be making noise. If Nosy Neighbor objects, remind her that you have nothing to do with the soundproofing, but obviously it is poor in your building. If she still objects, tell her you want to make overhead sounds more "normal" for her grandchildren so they won't be afraid of noises all the time, "the poor things". She's either going to have to learn to tolerate it or find a new place! Then do what you need in order to get your work done.
This is about as polite as you can be without becoming her doormat, I think, and that is what she is demanding.
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Post by shopgirl on Dec 27, 2009 2:36:12 GMT -5
Celeste has the best solution. I think if you tell her in advance that you will be doing housework at a given time, she will be nicer to you. If you have wooden floors, it is noisy in the downstairs apartment. Communication is the key to peace here. Who knows? She may be hearing you walking around up there doing normal living, interpreting it as you pounding on her ceiling for HER to be quiet. Like the night of the kitchen cart project.
In 35 years of apartment living: I've always found that the neighbors I'm friends with can make as much noise as they want and it doesn't bother me. The neighbors I'm not friends with annoy me.
I lived in a building with wooden floors, and the guy upstairs always sounded like he was dropping marbles or ball bearings and rolling them across the floor! I got to know him, a nice guy, he was not dropping marbles, just doing normal living, and he heard the dropping marbles in his apartment, too! In fact, I got to know more neighbors in that building, and every single person was hating on their upstairs neighbors because of the dropping marbles. Even people on the top floor thought there was some workman on the roof dropping marbles at all hours. We never did figure out what was causing the marbles noise. It became a great joke between all of us.
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Post by bigtimetroubles on Dec 27, 2009 2:38:45 GMT -5
I agree with celeste....I hated one neighbor downstairs who complained about my noise....I did not placate this lady at all and I suppose she moved....of course her loud bedroom with men was not my concern and one time she banged on the ceiling with a broom or something to get me to quiet down and I jumped up and down on the floor actually hurting my foot like made because I had an unknown bone spur in my heel....ouchie that hurt....but noises in an apt complex are natural....I live now in a house....never want another apt again if I can avoid it.
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Post by yearning4order on Dec 27, 2009 2:53:09 GMT -5
If Celeste's tactic does not work, I would talk to your landlord and let your landlord know the lengths you have gone to in order to try to appease a neighbor who may have some personal issues. Let them know that you've found even the absurd lengths you have gone to try to placate this person make it quite clear that the complaints are not based in reality and that you will no longer be trying to placate this person, and will instead direct her to contact the apartment manager.
I've had friends who have been on the *opposite* end of all this, as tenants who have bona fide noise complaints and the landlord somehow ignores what them. So my thinking is if reasonable and sane people with legitimate noise complaints can be ignored by apartment managers, then so can unreasonable and possibly not sane people with irrational noise complaints. No reason you should even be involved any more, that's why they get free rent!
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Post by brightbeginning on Dec 27, 2009 5:08:49 GMT -5
I'm sorry, but I have a different take on this-to me, you have been MORE than accomodating. I don't agree that you should let her know ahead of time when you want to clean. I would just live life normally, and if she doesn't like it, she can move! Of course I wouldn't turn on the vacuum late or start hammering pictures in the wall at night, but there is no way I am going to live on eggshells for anyone else. Think of a good time at night, let's say 8:30-and after that, no more loud noise, and do the same in the morning-maybe not until after 10:00. Geez-her nosiness alone is too much already!!
Debi
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Post by scribbles on Dec 27, 2009 7:57:37 GMT -5
Just make sure that you don't sound as if you are asking for permission to make noise. A firm, matter of fact tone of voice is called for here. "Just wanted to give you a heads up; I'm doing a deep cleaning today. You'll most likely hear some noise from my unit. I'll stop by 8 this evening."
You do not want to give her the idea that you are asking for permission or she will attempt to control you even more.
I can sympathize with you. I lived in an old building with creaky, squeaky floors. I walked around barefoot all the time, but the floorboards made noise. First, my downstairs neighbors didn't want me to vacuum before noon on the weekends. Okay, I can live with that. But that meant that sometimes I would vacuum after work on a weekday. They complained about that. And they complained to the landlord.
What they really wanted was to hear absolutely no sound from my apartment while they were at home. Which, given the nature of the building, was impossible. I needed to walk around, make dinner, do chores, etc. So I informed the landlord that I had area rugs down, went barefoot and used headphones when listening to TV/music. What more could I do? And then I just started living a normal life again.
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Post by MsHavisham on Dec 27, 2009 9:15:41 GMT -5
Thanks for the support and suggestions everyone. She rents her unit and I own mine so it is really her landlords I need to maintain a good relationship with. I am sure Nosy is a great tenant as she is neat as a pin, and I don't want them to be out a good tenant - but it might come to that if she can't endure the sounds of normal living. I think what I will do is later today, I will call up her landlord and explain the situation before I confront Nosy.
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Post by 60isolderthanithot on Dec 27, 2009 9:32:19 GMT -5
It's time to stand UP! Stop allowing her to push you around. I _know_ how hard it is, I'm shy that way myself. All it got me was stood up, pushed around and broke (people felt free to pay me late, and in the amounts they felt like, not what was owed). The lady needs a lesson in reality. It's no favor to her to let her keep on like this.
Draw a clear line. Write down the points you need to make and be ready to send her the edited, direct-but-not-rude letter. Be truthful without accusation, just say that you need to clear up a few things so you both can be better neighbors and know what to expect.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 27, 2009 11:57:07 GMT -5
I'm sorry, but I have a different take on this-to me, you have been MORE than accomodating. I don't agree that you should let her know ahead of time when you want to clean. I would just live life normally, and if she doesn't like it, she can move! Of course I wouldn't turn on the vacuum late or start hammering pictures in the wall at night, but there is no way I am going to live on eggshells for anyone else. Think of a good time at night, let's say 8:30-and after that, no more loud noise, and do the same in the morning-maybe not until after 10:00. Geez-her nosiness alone is too much already!! Debi I totally agree. When I lived in apartments, it was completely understood that a reasonable amount of noise (walking, talking, hammering, music/TV at normal levels, running loud appliances) was o.k. between 8:00 am and 10:00 pm. For courtesy's sake, I would usually try to avoid loud noises before 10 am and after 8:30 pm as brightbeginnings mentioned. In between these hours, most people are awake and should understand that others are awake too. If she needs a completely quiet environment, she needs to take the responsibility to soundproof her apartment or move. |
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Post by yearning4order on Dec 27, 2009 12:38:04 GMT -5
She rents her unit and I own mine so it is really her landlords I need to maintain a good relationship with. The owner does not cater to the insanity of the renter. I'm sorry. You just don't. I am sure Nosy is a great tenant as she is neat as a pin, and I don't want them to be out a good tenant That actually isn't your responsibility, to worry about them. She can't be a great tenant if she makes apartment owners and other renters uncomfortable. Is there a building owner who overseas goings on in the building? I would make sure they know this is happening, and how absurd Nosy has been and that you as an apartment owner can no longer go to such crazy lengths to try to appease an unappeaseable renter. |
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Post by fluffernut - now Jannie on Dec 27, 2009 13:00:27 GMT -5
Cleste and Scribbles said it well.
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Post by Rory on Dec 27, 2009 13:01:17 GMT -5
"As the monkey does not see his own red bottom so a (wo)man does not see his/her faults"
You are entitled to live you own life whatever her neurosis.
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Post by Celeste on Dec 27, 2009 14:31:42 GMT -5
Actually, I think Brightbeginnings (Debi) and I are closer in agreement than it may look like on the surface. I agree with her. You have been more than accommodating. I think we agree that you shouldn't cater to Nosy Neighbor's needs from here on out.
Where we differ is how to go about the change.
I'd suggest something along the lines of politely but firmly stating "I'm going to be making a reasonable amount of noise to carry out my life. If it scares the grandchildren, the best way to cure their fear is to keep making it so they get accustomed to it. If it bothers you, I'm sorry but I need to get it done."
You aren't asking for her permission, you are simply informing her the rules have changed somewhat.
You would be perfectly within your rights just to go ahead, as Debi suggests, but I think a polite prior proclamation stands a better chance of getting through it without hysterics or hostility from below. Just a thought.
Approaching her landlord with your problem first sounds like a good plan.
You sound like a great neighbor to me. I'm sorry you are having problems with someone with stethoscopes for ears! Good luck, no matter what route you choose in the end.
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Post by eagle on Dec 27, 2009 15:03:40 GMT -5
I have noticed that when I lived in squalor in my apartment, which I owned, I feared complaining about the noises of my upstairs neighbors.
But the noises they made were pretty much normal living noises anyway, and for the most part didn't really bother me that much.
However, being fearful to make noise could be shame based fear due to a squalor related issue. Or it could at least be complicated by that.
Anyway, I agree that you are not required to live like Anne Frank because the downstairs neighbor is over sensitive to noise. I would suggest that you live your life as normally as you can, clean when you need to clean, assemble furniture or gifts when you need to do so, with the caveat that louder noises might best be kept to after 8 am and no later than 10 pm.
I do not agree with noise control to last until 10 am as that is completely unreasonable. The majority of working people I know are up and off to work by 7 am and some earlier than that, so early morning noises are quite acceptable.
The next time she comes upstairs to complain, then tell her it is a shame the building construction didn't include more noise barriers, but that perhaps she should consider ear phones or ear plugs if she is that sensitive to noise.
My brother wears ear plugs when he sleeps because his apartment in San Diego is right downtown and in a very noisy part of the city. What good would it do him to stick his head out the window at 2 am and yell at drunken night club goers? Ear plugs prevent a lot of personal aggravation for him, and it may do so for your neighbor.
But I would guess that your neighbor would rather be able to hear, so she has something to pay attention to and go investigate. This is her problem and not yours. Thankfully you don't have to live inside her head, as it doesn't sound like a very comfortable place to be.
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