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Post by illuminata on Jan 26, 2010 2:23:00 GMT -5
If I can add my two cents: I also deal with a husband who would yell and holler and escape (to the TV, just as yours escapes to video games) instead of doing something practical to help out with cleaning the squalor. It went on for years while we were living in active squalor conditions, but it still occasionally rears its head when things start to get a bit cluttery or when I ask him to do things he does not want to do. There have been a couple of conversations we've had where we have discovered a few things about Mr. Nada's personality: - He is demand-resistant: He resists when I demand.
- He is a perfectionist: If he doesn't feel 100% positive that he can't do it right the first time, he doesn't even want to start and face the possibility of failure.
- He had major issues with both his parents, and when he gets in certain situations his emotional self reverts to childhood and he reacts as he did when he was a child.
- He has ADD and can get sidetracked easily.
- He was put on Ritalin as a child for inattention issues.
- He does not like to be told he is doing something wrong (see parental issues above), incorrectly, too quickly, too slowly, or in any way badly.
I don't know if your husband deals with any of that stuff too, but that stuff can be huge roadblocks blocking the path to any sort of positive progress that BOTH of you could be making in your home. Plus, he is setting a very bad example for your children, and is setting the stage for future resentment between he and his kids. But I'm sure you know that. I get the feeling that he is escaping from his responsibilities and his feelings of not knowing what to do or how to do it when he is playing video games. I also think he might be covering his own feelings of guilt and confusion by yelling and hollering when something isn't done. It's an old diversion tactic: "If I make enough noise and cause a distraction, she won't notice that I really don't know what to do." Anyway...I haven't exactly solved my husband problem either. But there IS a point in the cleanup process when most men, if they do care at all, will get up and do something, even if it is a little something. I treat it like I do the kids; I don't go insane praising him if he picks up a tissue and puts in the trash, I just say something like, "Thank you, I appreciate your help." Perhaps you could give him jobs that HE has the skills to do well...like organizing the video games? Putting away the DVDs? Then have a little reward, say something like, "Okay, if you can get the games and DVDs organized, we'll all sit down and have a movie night." Or if he takes out the trash, give him a kiss. Men will do a lot for a little physical affection. We are all different and we all react to our squalor in different ways and none of us can be forced to change our behavior. You've arrived at a place where you WANT to change your life; he has to arrive at that place on his own. You can be a good example and you can keep up the good work, but any change that he makes is going to have to come from within HIMSELF. I know how frustrating that is. Trust me. I've got a broken refrigerator in the kitchen that is a testament to that. But the reality is that HE has to want to change. The good part is that if he sees you changing, it is a good possibility that he will also come to that decision.
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Post by creativechaos on Jan 26, 2010 2:49:06 GMT -5
i hear your frustration and your dilemma. you have it tough. you aren't gonna change dh by demanding anything, so for now, it's up to you. but you CAN tell him how you feel without being too accusing or blaming. and you can give him clear directives about what you need him to do at the time that you need it done.
is is possible that, until you have less trash and more decluttering done, you can make a car trip to the landfill weekly, and pack the garbage in small bags that you can lift yourself, so you don't have to let it pile up for weeks and months and so that you don't attract bugs and vermin?
if you have a large enough freezer wand leave some space in it, you can put your garbage-type food scraps in a plastic bag in the freezer (or several bags). this will keep the garbage from stinking and attracting bugs, etc. then, just before you haul off the garbage, remove the bags of frozen food scraps. no smell = no vermin and bugs. rinse out all cans and beverage bottles, especially beer bottles. get rid of the smells. that will go a long way.
good luck with this. your schedules both sound impossibly full so that is stressful. perhaps you and hubby could do some quick ten pickups (pick up ten things and put away, incl. throw away), 5 minute room rescues, etc. make it fun and fast. that way, you do fast focused work and get it done. 5 min. each hour you are both home and make it a game.
use incentive with your hubby rather than criticism (it's hard i know, but just try it and see what happens), get your kids on board with helping, and be an example of what you want. you've been given a lot of great suggestions here and we're all rooting for you, so don't give up,!come chat or do listzilla or a dice challenge or something to make you feel empowered in some way. and don't forget to reward yourself in small ways for all of your efforts.
hugs, cc
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Post by shopgirl on Jan 26, 2010 3:27:07 GMT -5
I hope you're doing well this evening, jennmommi! It's great that you sat him down and had a discussion about this.
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Post by lizzie on Jan 26, 2010 3:37:54 GMT -5
Hi again, on another thread Messymini mentioned this website: www.housefairy.org as having good ideas for getting children involved in cleaning games, it could be worth a look!
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jennmommi
New Member
Joined: September 2009
Posts: 91
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Post by jennmommi on Jan 26, 2010 15:10:34 GMT -5
I have been home from work today with a sick child. So far I have done 4 loads of laundry, including folding and putting up the clean laundry 2 loads of dishes made lunch started making dinner (I have class tonight so dinner will be waiting for my kids and hubby before I have to leave for class) I also managed to study and did some homework
I will probably get more laundry done before I have to leave tonight too if my dryer ever gets this load dry. I can get things done when I have time, I just never have time which is why it got this bad I was cleaning only on weekends and just fell so far behind I could not catch up. Then I get depressed and don't want to clean at all.
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Post by Chris on Jan 26, 2010 15:34:11 GMT -5
I think sometimes both husband and wife give up on the mess -- I'm not saying you've given up -- but I think that if either one stays determined to do their part and consistently finds a way to keep going -- the other one will come around. Mine did. He was of no help to me for the longest time and I did just what littleengine referred to =pretending I was a single mom. It did bring down my stress and having zero expectation of him = he did do more eventually -- he wanted his areas to look nice and I think he saw over time that what I was doing was making a difference. For instance my closet and clothing became all organized. Lucky we didn't/don't share a closet but he noticed. Little by little he even gave me stuff to donate that didn't fit him or he hadn't worn -- this from my DH who could never seem to part with an old popsicle stick but he did and is changing slowly. Good luck and hang in there -- you have a lot of challenges with your own busy schedule, the children, and everything. There are some great ideas here. Please don't be too hard on yourself just keep going chipping away at it.
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Post by shopgirl on Jan 26, 2010 16:01:49 GMT -5
WOW! You've done a LOT, jennmommi! Way to go!
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Post by howardsgirlfriend on Jan 26, 2010 22:35:41 GMT -5
You got a lot done today!
Your comment about starting dinner gave me an idea: can you start and/or finish tasks, then ask DH to do the other part? This worked very well for me. I would fold the clean laundry, and ask DH to carry the basket upstairs. After he got used to doing this part, I'd then ask him to carry it upstairs and put it away. He was doing chores without realizing it!
He still waits to be asked, but that doesn't bother me a bit. I found being busy or out of the house when the task needed to be done especially effective, either because I'm too critical and he's very sensitive, and/or there's no question that I can't do the task myself.
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Post by yearning4order on Jan 26, 2010 23:14:31 GMT -5
My husband would rather complain and yell at me about the mess, and then play video games while I'm expected to drop everything and clean. His chores are dishes and trash and guess what has been piling up for weeks. He only decided to do dishes because I refused to cook dinner with no plates to eat on (and I was not going to do his chores for him). As a former online game addict, this caught my attention. People can and do become addicted to video games, online games, even facebook and iphone games. I myself refused to help clean this house when I was in my addiction, and unfortunately left this to my now ex-husband. I bring this up because in my case my gaming addiction very much hastened the swift decline into deeper squalor in this home, and my home didn't really get better until I quit gaming. I think I joined the site quite almost a year *before* I quit gaming and made very slow steps ahead--the real progress in the house came after I quit gaming. There are sites that deal with topics like this such as olganon.org, gamerwidow.com . Now of course, I could be off base, maybe it's really not that big of an issue, but I saw it, and you sound so much like the spouses of gaming addicts in the description of frustration and hopelessness. It may not all be about squalor. I don't know if I have great suggestions for you other than learn to live more as a single woman, but that's a pretty depressing prospect for a married couple. Part of me wants to suggest that if his car is close by, simply load his car to the gills with rubbish. On the way to work he'll have to notice that it needs dumping. Of course, maybe your cars are parked too far away, I'm not sure if you have to go up and down stairs or anything like that. Good luck to you.
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Post by Arid on Jan 27, 2010 1:42:46 GMT -5
It sounds to me like you have found his "currency." If the kitchen is a mess--you don't cook!! It's that simple. Be sure that the children get fed, even if it means taking them out somewhere. Him? He can fend for himself. . . I hope that he likes peanut butter and crackers!
Also, the next time that he tells you that he wants a clean house, I'd use that Dr. Phil phrase, "based on results. . . ," he doesn't. If he wanted a clean house so darned bad, he WOULD TAKE OUT THE TRASH. So, the very next time that he told me that he wanted a clean house, I would tell him, "I DON'T BELIEVE YOU. *IF* you really, truly wanted a clean house, you would take out the trash and not leave it to pile up in the house, causing the entire place to stink!!"
Meanwhile, I think that you would be well-served by implementing the idea of putting all future trash into a small plastic bag and discarding it somewhere daily. MAYBE, "Superman" will find the strength to remove the too-heavy-for-bags eventually. Your other option is to give him a date. "If those bags aren't removed from the house by Jan. 31st, I'm HIRING someone to do it for me!!!
Good luck.
Arid
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Post by paperpiler on Jan 27, 2010 16:20:47 GMT -5
Meaning no disrespect to anyone, and with a lot of empathy toward the particular situation, but man I'm so happy I'm divorced.
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kathysmith
New Member
Joined: January 2010
Posts: 15
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Post by kathysmith on Jan 27, 2010 21:48:01 GMT -5
For laundry. try putting a load in the washer before you leave for work. Then ask him to please put it in the dryer while you are cooking dinner. Then have him show the 7 year old how to unload the dryer & bring it upstairs. Then after dinner, sort while watching TV, hand piles of sorted clothes to each family member and ask them to please put their own clothes away, folded or not, as they prefer. One load a day, with the task spread around the whole family.
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Post by Magpie on Jan 27, 2010 22:45:51 GMT -5
One of the tactics that may be used with a multi-person household is the house meeting, as in the "Cheaper By The Dozen" story.
Every week, at a specific day & time, everyone in the household, even the kids, gets together to talk about how the house management is working out - what is liked, disliked, what needs to be handled, how, and by whom, maybe about spending time/money on something.
The kids learn about negotiation and discussion by observing and participating.
It makes it clear that everyone has a voice in the household, though the adults do get the final say over any minors.
It is true that you may hear negative stuff from other house members; this provides the opportunity to handle those issues.
Do set ground rules: no name-calling or labeling, stick to the facts, ma'am.
Anybody use this?
Maggie
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Post by mish on Jan 27, 2010 23:17:38 GMT -5
Meaning no disrespect to anyone, and with a lot of empathy toward the particular situation, but man I'm so happy I'm divorced. Uh-huh! And this is why I've never married. Why does the woman always end up the only grown-up in the house? $hits me to no end.
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Post by illuminata on Jan 28, 2010 0:35:25 GMT -5
Meaning no disrespect to anyone, and with a lot of empathy toward the particular situation, but man I'm so happy I'm divorced. Uh-huh! And this is why I've never married. Why does the woman always end up the only grown-up in the house? $hits me to no end. Well...it doesn't always end up that way. In my life, I've found that it's about 50/50...there are times when I'm more the grownup, but then there are times when he is more the grownup. Unfortunately, when you're dealing with someone who does react in a negative way to helping out with getting out of a squalor situation, it does sometimes feel like that's "all" they do. Sometimes, you just gotta dig a bit to find the root causes and be creative in your approach. People often reach their decisions to get out of squalor at different times. Sometimes, you just gotta wait on them to catch up.
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