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Post by usedtobeneat on Jul 25, 2010 20:02:57 GMT -5
Have you talked to the Mom? Maybe sit down and talk to her over coffee like you are her ally? You may have to explain that you are on her side and you want to see them all happy, and that you are concerned that she may be depressed, because depression does manifest itself in not taking care of your surroundings sometimes. Maybe if you phrase it like you are concerned for her, instead of concerned about the house, she will open up to you. If you mention that you are concerned about the kids, she will immediately get on the defensive subconsciously because she will see it like you are saying "I don't think you can take care of your kids and I'm worried" even if you don't mean it that way.
She may be depressed and not know how or where to get help. If she is depressed and you offer assistance like that, then she may open up to you and go get the help she needs. If it is depression and it's not treated, then no matter how clean it gets, she may not be able to keep it that way.
Keep us posted and that was very nice of you to go over and help her. Did she help you at all? Or how was she about it while ya'll were cleaning?
Mary
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Post by usedtobeneat on Jul 25, 2010 20:05:36 GMT -5
BTW, I didn't think you were blaming the mom on purpose, it's just something that society really does. If a house is messy, it's always the woman they talk about or say how she doesn't do things. Plus, I'm the one who is blamed for my house, when I haven't even been there much in the past few months. It was a bit messy when the renovation started, but nothing like this. That was just slightly messy because I just didn't feel like doing my usual cleaning. Well, it was messy to me, it looked clean on the surface. Now it's messy all over, inside and out of everything.
Mary
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Post by def6 on Jul 25, 2010 23:29:01 GMT -5
Hi, This group is really only for people who struggle with being messie or having messie houses. There are other groups on the net about knowing or being related to or married to someone that is messie. I wish only the best to you and your family. I hope that the person that is suffering with this can get help and recover.
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Post by yearning4order on Jul 26, 2010 0:14:07 GMT -5
I urge you to use caution if you chose to threaten calling DHS on them. It probably will backfire big time and they might cut ties with you. After reading her description of the house, I totally disagree with this. At this point it is not about being nice, it's about the safety and well-being of the children. Whether the couple "retaliates" by trying to cut ties is almost laughable because it's not like they will pack up and move...they can't. The house is in squalor. They left their children in that situation while they decided to travel. There are just too many infractions to try to play the wronged, misunderstood parents card without having to up the internal delusion level a significant amount. If I sound more than a little harsh, realize I am speaking as someone who as had more than my share of contact with families who've lost custody due to alcoholism and drug addiction--there are plenty of times that this becomes one of the pieces, if not the final straw, to people wanting to change. Trying to avert natural consequences will actually prolong the unhealthy situation. Is the goal to be "nice" or to potentially avert harm? In this situation, it would be completely natural for a report to be placed to protect the well-being of the children. It may also be possible to report this anonymously. |
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Post by usedtobeneat on Jul 26, 2010 0:23:06 GMT -5
Yearning,
The problem with getting DHR involved is that just cleaning up the house isn't going to be all they want you to do. They will remove the kids, possibly to a relative and that gives the relative temporary custody. The parents will be required not only to clean up (which they should do) but also to pay the relative while they have the child (which they should offer to do but it will have to go through DHR). Then they will have to have psych evaluations, the kids will have to talk to a counselor, DHR will probably have classes the parents have to go to and pay for, etc etc. By the time they are done jumping through DHR's hoops and paying for classes, etc, they will be out lots of time and money when the situation could be resolved much simpler. DHR should be reserved for abuse and neglect, not for messy houses. DHR helps many abused and neglected kids, and it's an important service, but they ruin just as many families as they help. I have seen this happen before, where they were called in over a matter that was easily resolved and it tore that family apart. The kids were gone for close to a year while the parents completed the classes etc that the social worker wanted them to take and she had done enough drop in visits to be satisfied that they were doing what she wanted them to do. Meanwhile, the kids were miserable with a relative and wanted to go home. They had to go to counseling because the social worker didnt think they should be homesick.
I say if a kid is being abused or neglected then by all means call them. But for something like this, they should stay out and keep their noses in their own business. DHR is something that is never as simple as it looks. After seeing what they did to a friends family, if they were to ever come to my house (which btw will be clean this time next week) I woudn't let them in. Even if it were spotless, like it used to be. Not without a court order or a warrant. I do not trust them at all, especially the ones in this town.
Just my two cents. I don't trust them as far as I can throw them.
Mary
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Post by CourageouslyLion SeeksSerenity on Jul 26, 2010 0:29:40 GMT -5
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Post by clutterfree on Jul 26, 2010 0:35:54 GMT -5
I say if a kid is being abused or neglected then by all means call them
Kids not having beds (where they hell are they sleeping? hope to god not on the floor) and having floors covered in garbage, feces and urine pretty much defines neglect.
I hope the parents will step up and do the right thing, and get it cleaned up.
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Post by usedtobeneat on Jul 26, 2010 0:43:18 GMT -5
They are probably sleeping with siblings or parents. When mine were little they wouldn't sleep alone. The younger two either slept with a sibling or in bed with us. They had rooms and beds, but never used them. When we first moved into the house my younger daughter always slept with my older daughter and that was how they both liked it, so there was only one bed in there. My younger son slept with us and there were twin beds in that room for him and his older brother, but he never used his bed. My older sons friends did when they slept over.
As it is now, and has been for a while, even when the house was spotless, my kids love sleeping on the den couch. They will argue over who sleeps there. One gets the couch, another gets the loveseat. Even on school nights and their rooms are clean. They just like it.
They may not have a seperate bed because they like sleeping with the siblings, parents or on the couch. I'm not defending the parents, I'm simply offering a different explination of what could be going on. I could be completely wrong, but I could be right also. No way for us to know either way really. I just know from my own experience about what my kids do and don't do.
Mary
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Post by usedtobeneat on Jul 26, 2010 0:51:53 GMT -5
I say if a kid is being abused or neglected then by all means call themKids not having beds (where they hell are they sleeping? hope to god not on the floor) and having floors covered in garbage, feces and urine pretty much defines neglect. I hope the parents will step up and do the right thing, and get it cleaned up. Well, at the moment, my bedroom floor is covered by feces, urine and there is garbage in my kitchen, den, livingroom and bathroom floors. I am far from neglectful though. We haven't been staying there, and I am usually a spotless housekeeper. Going overboard with the cleaning. We had a renovation, I was gone and my 16yo and her bf were staying there supposedly to keep things in order, and when I got back it was like that. Not only do I have the renovation mess to deal with and it's still in the middle of it so it'll be a while before it's finished and cleaned up, but now I have the mess that my daughter made and the dogs made because she couldn't be bothered to let them out. My two younger kids are at my MIL's on the lake for the summer as usual, and my older daughter has gone to Orlando on vacation with her bf and his family. Yes, I know the OP said that's been going on for years, but as I have pointed out, there could be something more going on with the mom like depression. The OP doesn't seem to want to find that out though, so we have no way of knowing. I have very severe depression right now, and I'm struggeling with trying to get my own house back in order because I can't have my kids back there with it like that. Of course the two younger kids rooms are horrible messes and have been like that for a couple of weeks before we left, but I was behind on everything then because of the depression. I did pick up the dog crap though and take the dogs outside to go. However, it seems to me that your post implied that anybody with kids who had that kind of house was neglectful. It's offensive to me and anyone who may be temporarily in that situation and trying with everything they can to get out of it. Especially those who usually keep things spotless and are going through a major depression, huge amounts of outside stress, and a family health crisis. Especially parents who put their children first in everything and would do anything in the world for them and it just about kills them to know that they should be doing something and just cannot do it. I'm going to sign off now. Thank you for your comments. It made my evening, and really made me feel like I can get down to business working tomorrow. Mary |
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Post by clutterfree on Jul 26, 2010 1:16:59 GMT -5
Mary,
However, it seems to me that your post implied
Well, you're wrong. I don't know what else to say about that. I wasn't implying anything. I thought I was pretty straightforward in that I was referring to the OP's situation and how I think it's clearly a neglectful one.
And you just said, a paragraph or two before, that you aren't even staying there. So how does what I said apply to you? Your kids aren't sleeping in conditions like the OP says those kids have been in for years. So how is this about you? I was referring specifically to the situation as described by the OP, not your home.
You are far from the only person here who has ever had pee and poop on the floors, or has been depressed, among other things. I had to rip out a whole carpet because of a dog, and I have a child, for christ's sake. You've assumed I'm a condemning person because of what I said about one situation--not yours.
It's offensive to me and anyone who may be temporarily in that situation and trying with everything they can to get out of it.
It's offensive to you--you have no idea to whom else it might be offensive, and can't speak for everyone. I'm sorry you felt offended, but I've explained that. You've assumed a great many things in your post, namely that I have no idea what it must be like to be a depressed mother who has lived in squalor and felt all those things.
Nowhere am I pointing a finger at you, and I'm not going to be pulled into an argument over it.
I wish you the best.
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Post by messymarie on Jul 26, 2010 1:51:40 GMT -5
There is a very large difference between your house and the one in the OP Mary. You are trying.
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Post by Celeste on Jul 26, 2010 6:26:12 GMT -5
Mary, with all due respect, this is Osiris1's thread. You are only one of a number of posters with opinions. Your points are valid, but you've already stated them -- repeatedly. Time to back off.
Blame is not at issue here, so working out whether or not the kids should clean or not is a moot point. Someone needs to clean, and as the legally responsible adults, the weight is going to drop on the parents, not the kids. We need to get them involved first. If one or both of the kids want to join in later, that's great, but lets give everyone a chance to respond without pointing fingers first.
Let's concentrate on getting resources and information to the kids' parents to handle their own problems and go from there. Hashing over the next step is pointless.
Fixed typo.
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osiris1
New Member
Joined: July 2010
Posts: 4 
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Post by osiris1 on Jul 26, 2010 11:04:35 GMT -5
Doesn't seem to want to find out?! Wow. I'm not sure where that came from?
Yes, she's dealing with depression. I'm fairly certain the depression is the reason behind the mess as much as the mess fuels the depression. My biggest question is how to manage both? Otherwise, won't it just end up this way again?
I appreciate all the responses, especially since I now realize this is supposed to be a place for people going through the process of "stepping out" of squalor, not "friends of". I apologize for any intrusion.
I get the feeling I'm in way over my head with this one. My brother and his wife are both angry at me for "ruining their vacation". I'm finding that the problems run much deeper than the state of the house. They went on vacation for 5 days leaving all the kids at home without any adult supervision (unless you count a 16yo girl), until we stopped by. And their main concern is their vacation, versus the abandonment of children for 5 days in a house full of feces, urine and flies. I'm just completely astounded by all this.
Again, I appreciate all of the advice. It really does help.
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Post by disorganizeddragon on Jul 26, 2010 11:27:38 GMT -5
Osiris1, you're not intruding. You needed help and didn't know where to go. Although this board is designed for those working thru their own issues with cleaning and de-cluttering, if we can help point you in the right direction or assist you in finding even a few of the answers you may need, we are glad to help. Please, just do what you can to make sure the kids are properly cared for. As Lioness said, they deserve a clean and loving enviroment. From what you described, I think many of us fear their health may be endangered by their present living conditions. It's sad if your brother and sister-in-law choose to live this way, but the children should not be forced to do so. After all, they are children and their parents should be the ones to step up to the plate, take responsibility and act like adults. You deserve to be congratulated for looking for answers when I'm sure it would've been so much easier to just turn away.  Good luck! |
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MiSC
Banned
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 1,611
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Post by MiSC on Jul 26, 2010 11:44:26 GMT -5
Man, someone, somewhere, needs to start a board for people who love a hoarder. There's a Children of Hoarders site, but when I asked them if that was a place for other loved ones to go, they said it wasn't. My husband joined a couple of the mailing lists like Friends of Hoarders and Mates of Messies, but he said there was very little more than venting and berating going on.
I'm one of the ones who think this thread doesn't belong on SOS, but know that I DO want there to be help and comradery for folks like Osiris who need help and advice, so I understand completely why it's here.
Osiris, I have no words of wisdom for you -- you're getting some nuggets of sound advice here. I do hope you find a solution to this terrible problem very, very soon. It sounds like you're torn up about it, as well you should be. This situation is awful. I feel for everyone involved, but especially those dear children. I wish you and your family all the best.
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