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Post by mynicehome on May 24, 2015 20:46:35 GMT -5
This is a really interesting read. Thank you to all posters so far. I see a range of "helpfulness" in DHs and DSOs, children too! The Western societal upheaval of the "traditional" roles of men and women is into the third generation now...and there is still a lot of blur. I've read some interesting comments about mothers, not so much about fathers.
I grew up in a non-traditional (as I learned much later as a young woman in the late '70s) family setting. Both my parents were self-employed. My father's work did not always keep him busy, so he cooked lunches and picked us up from school. Mom usually always made suppers. My mother took care of all the finances, always. My brothers were much older than I and my younger sister, and we had one older sister. By the time I was ten, it was basically just the four of us at home. Mom, Dad, my sister and I did the housekeeping. I was chief laundress starting at 10 years old. My sister was chief vaccuumer. As we got older, we eventually did all the housework until we moved out, then Mom and Dad did it. We were expected to keep ourselves in our own personal needs with our allowances. They started at $2 a week when we were 8 and 10 years old, and ended at $20 per week by the time we moved out. Of course, we also had part-time jobs from 14 years on. The house was always comfy-lived in and spic and span was not required.
So when I first married I thought all men were like my Dad, who cleaned house, cooked meals, brought us cocoa every bedtime... I thought men wanted women who knew how to take care of themselves money-wise, life-wise, who didn't cook if they were busy or clean if it wasn't important. Women who made decisions for themselves about themselves and expected the full fifty-percent of any partnership.
Boy, was I wrong. Mom should have told me they weren't all like Dad. But Mom was not like other Moms either. Independent and outspoken all through 42 years of marriage, she was widowed at 62 and if anything, got more independent, travelling all over parts of the world by herself -- taking painting courses in China and Holland, trekking through Russia and Greece.
So I am one of the generation that was raised by a strong mother and a supportive father, a little before it's time.
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Post by larataylor on May 24, 2015 23:58:13 GMT -5
mynicehome - they sound like really awesome parents!
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Post by anewleaf on May 25, 2015 0:55:11 GMT -5
That's funny (as in oddly coincidental, not funny ha-ha), openwindows, because s.o. was cursing *just* the other morning, as he was out of clean jeans. It actually WAS my fault, though, because I asked him not to run his laundry the night before, because I didn't feel up to removing, folding, and putting away the enormous load of whites from the dryer. He had even asked "Want me to put them up?" To which I replied, "No." He's never make such an offer as I can recall, but our linen closet is too shallow and things must be folded a certain way. I didn't want him to do it, only for me to have to hover over him and/or explain how to fold things and/or tell him where they go. Just the very thought was tiresome .
This is yet another piece of the puzzle in the whole inequality in housework issue. Women often don't want their partners to do things, because it will be done half-a$$, the "wrong way" or just not up to a personal standard. I mean, who wants to come after someone else and have to redo everything? Sometimes this is pointed out as a control issue, or one of the few ways in which a woman feels powerful in the home, or perhaps even life (over her domain, over her tasks).
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Post by maggie on May 25, 2015 1:01:00 GMT -5
I think part of the issue is the mindset that they are "helping" us. If they live there, then they should be contributing, not helping YOU. It might be a little different if the DH works outside the home and the wife does not. My husband and I both work outside the home, and there's no way I can consider his doing housework "helping me." I used to refer to it as babysitting whenever my husband watched the kids. He'd get mad and say it's not babysitting because they are his kids. I'd say that if I have to book him in advance and he gets to say no if he doesn't want to do it, then he's babysitting.
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Post by anewleaf on May 25, 2015 1:01:46 GMT -5
And something else...maybe I should give s.o. +1 for doing things like picking up grocery items for me, or bringing home takeout. My kitchen has been such a hindrance to cooking and my depression and anxiety are often so overwhelming that getting ready and going to the store seems like a Herculean task.
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Post by razy on May 25, 2015 1:33:25 GMT -5
I have been feeling guilty since I posted last....he would be devastated if he knew I rated him so low. I have to rate him 8 for effort.
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Post by larataylor on May 25, 2015 1:51:27 GMT -5
This is yet another piece of the puzzle in the whole inequality in housework issue. Women often don't want their partners to do things, because it will be done half-a$$, the "wrong way" or just not up to a personal standard. I mean, who wants to come after someone else and have to redo everything? Sometimes this is pointed out as a control issue, or one of the few ways in which a woman feels powerful in the home, or perhaps even life (over her domain, over her tasks). This is so true. Often we've worked things out just right and don't want them done some weird way that will cause problems. I try pretty hard to never criticize what DH and DD do, and not hover over them, either. Even if I have to do it over. The dishwasher gets loaded wrong, and the dishes are put away in the wrong places, but I'm just happy that they did something. It strikes me as counterproductive to be too controlling about this stuff … it's reinforcing that it's my territory, my tasks. That's not an idea I want to reinforce.
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Post by rubyred on May 25, 2015 7:35:16 GMT -5
Once you've been in the position where all the household chores fell on you anything anyone else does becomes "help". If you've never been yelled at because a grown man is out of underwear because you didn't check his drawer to know he was running low then search for where he left his dirties (true story, it was 5am and he woke me up screaming) you have no idea how much of a "help" it is for him to hit the laundry basket. I'm so sorry you were treated that way. My dad was exactly like that with my mom and he did see all housework as my mom's job. He would often beat her over the condition of the house.
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Post by rubyred on May 25, 2015 7:39:48 GMT -5
I think part of the issue is the mindset that they are "helping" us. If they live there, then they should be contributing, not helping YOU. It might be a little different if the DH works outside the home and the wife does not. My husband and I both work outside the home, and there's no way I can consider his doing housework "helping me." I used to refer to it as babysitting whenever my husband watched the kids. He'd get mad and say it's not babysitting because they are his kids. I'd say that if I have to book him in advance and he gets to say no if he doesn't want to do it, then he's babysitting. Haha!! Very good comeback. While I never had that issue with DH, I WOULD always be the one to arrange the "real" baby-sitters and daycare when the kids were small. I'm also the one to take off work to deliver them to the doctor/dentist, etc.
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Post by Jannie on May 25, 2015 8:23:23 GMT -5
I've been married almost 36 tears. Hubby has always been way more casual and tolerant about clutter, dirt, etc. He was a true bachelor slob when we met. Over the years, as kids came along and I had to work outside the home 50 to 60 hours a week, I was just too tired to keep things orderly. Now, at 62 years old, I am dealing with 30 plus years of clutter. I recently purged some books, and- believe it or not- I got rid of some of my HIGH SCHOOL study books. Hubby doesn't like sorting through things. I've been working mostly on my own "mess".
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Post by anewleaf on May 25, 2015 13:41:56 GMT -5
OMG, rubyred-I'm so sorry to hear that! That's truly awful.
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Post by angela on May 25, 2015 14:49:30 GMT -5
Awesome. DH took on many responsibilities around here for which I am forever grateful. He cooked dinners, shopped for groceries, split the wood and kept a fire going in the trash burner and for many years in the fireplace too, kept the machines and vehicles running, birthed and cared for the livestock, and for several years did a lot of the heavy barn cleaning. I know how lucky I was. For the first few years, we had a hard time working things out since he was fairly slovenly and complained long and loud about being asked to do things around the place. This was before he was paying rent and the work was meant to be in exchange. He had been homeless for 4 years before he lived with me, couch-hopping and car-camping. He wanted more credit than I gave him but I pointed out that unlike a hired person, he (DH) got to do the job how and when he pleased so it wasn't the same. Things cleared up considerably when he just paid rent and did whatever else he wanted to as he chose and when I got real and saw just how much of my own issues were impacting him. He had to live in my clutter and squalor and deal with my animals and with ME. I wish there hadn't been so much to do in general. On the one hand, I think he got a lot of benefit from the work he did (exercise, using competencies like his wood processing abilities) and I got benefit too, but on the other hand, he was emotionally chained to responsibilities he hadn't created (old, cold house, livestock, large rural property with lots of maintenance needs, me with my inability to take care of things, etc....) He did take on things so he wouldn't have to see me struggle. And even though at times he and we would talk about moving, he didn't want to leave me or the place itself even with all the problems here. But like me, he just wanted it all to shrink to a more manageable scale. I'm very sorry he didn't live long enough to see that happen.
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Post by mynicehome on May 25, 2015 16:14:53 GMT -5
rubyred...learning that your father beat your mother because of the housekeeping just leaves me feeling powerless. How dare he!!! If there are any women on this board (and I know there are) in a similar situation currently, please leave the house in whatever state and the man in jail.
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Post by mynicehome on May 26, 2015 23:56:16 GMT -5
6 for physical support (sweeping kitchen floor, vacuuming, loading dishwasher) -5 on emotional support. I would rather have a 3 on physical support and 6 on emotional support. Hello RoadRunner. I meant to reply to this post earlier. Once again, I'll have to go back to my Dad. He was a hugger. When something was wrong, I would go to him with my sad story and he would hug me and tell me everything would be okay. Just that simple reassurance.
I don't know how many times I needed my exSO to just give me a warm hug and tell me not to worry, we'd get through it. But I can tell you how many times it actually happened. It happened only after I told him that I needed a hug, after I told him I needed to hear that that I, with him by my side, would get through it. I had to put the words into his mouth and the squeeze into his hug. Totally un-comforting. I didn't ask too many times before I stopped asking at all.
I've had more genuinely caring hugs online here at SooS in the last six weeks than I had from exSO in the last six years.
I hear you on that.
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Post by RoadRunner on May 27, 2015 6:00:50 GMT -5
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