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Post by Bizzy on Sept 23, 2009 23:27:29 GMT -5
Well - it sure seems true to me- and I didn't read it on any websiite or in any book- it just makes sense to me- BUT I don't feel like I have to change my insides first- I know action makes me feel different inside. Why is't it true - is it true for any of us? The outside around me feels a LOT like it represents the inside of me- how do you explain that?
It is sort of like the alcholic who says- if I didn't have these problems I would not drink and then the other side that says- if you didn't drink you wouldn't have so many problems because you would be better able to deal with it. I guess. NOt good at metaphors. But I am not ready to toss this baby out with the bathwater.
I am not hanging onto this idea for any reason that I think is bad- excpet that it seems to have proven itself to be true for me- it is not something that would benefit me to hang onto if it were not true- since I know that my way out is to do action- that is what helps and counts and changes my insides- -- but to say that my way of keeping things and hanging on and not taking care of things and not having respect for things- has NO bearing on how I see, treat , feel about myself- would be a lie. Just saying ( and I am open to being wrong) Bizzy
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Post by Meme on Sept 23, 2009 23:59:05 GMT -5
bizzy-- I do think that it can define us if we let it-- when we allow ourselves to think that being messie is all bad or we are bad ---( -- certainly letting things go to the point of a difficult return can be very disabling to us but to define being disorganized and or messie as a negative quality is wrong- we are who we are and so if we find being disorganized is part of our make up then we need to accept that and learn to work with it--- that is where less stuff is a great help as then we do not have to keep trying to be organized when we cannot be- also messie can be defined as who we are a times due to kids or life or health and so if we can find ways to make less mess--(-hahahaha-) then we can learn to live in these circumstances and still feel worthy of who we are -- I refuse to live in a hotel where things look like no one lived here- what happens is that we some how develop shame if we cannot keep up with the perfect people-- I have nothing against perfect house keepers but I know some very unhappy and difficult perfects- so clean and orgaizied is not a complete answer. we have to find our level of where we feel comfortable and happy in how we live- and we can learn to be safe and healthy rather than organized and clean-( clean is not always safe and healthy) often we let others and we also do the same define us and then accept those definitions and then become those definations = it can be other areas too such as weight or money or other normal? things - we have to define our own selves in positive ways and then when we do clean or we do not clean we still have our self worth in tact- because we often define our selves as being bad or unworthy or hopeless or not good enough we become those things by habit- and then things do get out of control no matter what the problem is- in our lives and it can be weight or squalor or friendships or relations with abusive people because we do not think of our selves as worthy of more or better - unless we clean our minds of the squalor that we let in by our thinking or by what others say to us or about us - we will never have an organized or clean house according to our self thought standards- things get in a mess and life happens and we can clean and work and toss until the cows come home and it is going to happen again tomorrow- but we can get up with joy in our heart and do what we can with joy when we start affirming ourselves- we all can have messie minds at times but we have to toss out those unworthy thoughts so there is room for affirming thoughts- that is a difficult process because it is sometimes safer to say that we are not good enough rather than saying we are worthy- you can change how you see and think and define your self and not use the house or what ever things we put on ourselves as a catalyst- I think that is why it is important to clean our heads and hearts at the same time so that our squalor does not become our psyhe because although it should not be- it can become that way- excuse spellings - hugs Meme who is thinking outloud
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Post by breakingfree on Sept 24, 2009 9:04:11 GMT -5
Hmmm...this gives me a lot to think about. I have seen many post who stated that their squalor either started or got profoundly worse after a tragedy, i.e. divorce, breakup, job loss, or the death of a loved one. While I do not believe that a person is his/her mess and the mess does not define the person, I do think that to an extent the outside certainly can reflect on what is going on inside a person. I have also seen posts where a parent would clean the child's room and throw away things without permission. As an adult, that child exerts his/her independence by declaring "I will live how I want. I will throw away what I want, when I want, and keep what I want, when I want. I will clean what I want, when I want." Or, it can be nothing more than the child lived in squalor and squalor is all the child knows.
Again, let me reiterate, I am NOT saying a person IS his/her squalor, but I do believe that in many cases it is the manifestation of other issues in the person's life.
BF
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Post by CourageouslyLion SeeksSerenity on Sept 24, 2009 10:05:18 GMT -5
Hmmm...this gives me a lot to think about. I have seen many post who stated that their squalor either started or got profoundly worse after a tragedy, i.e. divorce, breakup, job loss, or the death of a loved one.
While I do not believe that a person is his/her mess and the mess does not define the person, I do think that to an extent the outside certainly can reflect on what is going on inside a person.
I have also seen posts where a parent would clean the child's room and throw away things without permission. As an adult, that child exerts his/her independence by declaring "I will live how I want. I will throw away what I want, when I want, and keep what I want, when I want. I will clean what I want, when I want."
Or, it can be nothing more than the child lived in squalor and squalor is all the child knows.
Again, let me reiterate, I am NOT saying a person IS his/her squalor, but I do believe that in many cases it is the manifestation of other issues in the person's life.
BF Well .... hmmmm ... I agree that other issues in the person's life sometimes might TRIGGER the tendency towards squalor ... for example ... when I was a teen, I lived with an adult who emotionally abused me, and who happened to be an obsessively clean cleanie. So, later, when I left home, I vowed never to be forced to clean. but .... ... once you read what Eris wrote in the first post of this thread ... you can see that you don't have to remain bound by whatever triggered that tendency. Sometimes we think we have chains around our necks that tightly bind us to our squalor -- hopelessly and irrevocably. But, if we actually look realistically, we can discover that the chains are looser than we once thought. Once we become aware of our true intrinsic worth and inner beauty, -- we can give ourselves permission to lift those false chains off of our necks. And then the mess is just a mess.
This is a thought-provoking discussion.
There's so much to think about while getting rid of things, I don't need the extra psychological weight of "my mess is me". Thanks for giving me permission to let go of that weight. Yeah, it's freeing, isn't it?
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Post by Bizzy on Sept 24, 2009 14:05:11 GMT -5
Hi ya- Hmmmmmm. Good stuff. Will mull it over. Brought some things up I am not comfortable taling about but I will since I am trying to be honest and want to be known as I truly am here- but this is not easy.. Spell check is NOT working for me this morning - you will see how TRULY dyslexia I am! meme said ( I don't know how to do quotes yet) " we have to define our own selves in positive ways and then when we do clean or we do not clean we still have our self worth in tact-" UNDERSTAND that for sure- it is not a moral issue- KNOW it to be true- but don't MUCH BELEIVE it about myself- you? someone else? sure. About cleaning or anything esle I do. I think-- well YOU don't know what a bad person I am.. If you know how many other things I am half assed about- let slide- when I am rude - not truthfull-what I need to do but haven't-- how far from the mark I fall in every area of my life pratically( ad adnauseum! ) you would see that it is just one more thing I do that makes me not a good person. And unless I make up for it by being really good in other ways-- or find ways to change the way I am- then I will remain- in my eyes- a bad person- for lack of a better phrase. I used to think I was a very good person- becaus-on everything- Like DD and fighting the system for her and caring for her, and dealing with my health and trying to make a living-- even if I fell short- I felt like I was doing my best so it made me mostly worthy- even if I didn't get it all done- or didn't do it well. For a minute or too anyway as ling as I kept that pace up-- But after years and years and being worn down- I quit trying so hard- cause it really didn't make that much of a difference in the outcome - and it was killing me. And I started feeling like a Martyr and got resentful because of it - and I hate the idea of that and do NOT want to be those things. So if I didn't knock myself out all the time- I didn't allow myself to get completely sucked dry- the idea was that I was taking care of myslef better- BUT - I didn't take better care of myself. I was too tired by that time- and out of steam and just made a decision - I resigned to try to live with things inside and outside of me the way they were because I couldn't seem to change them no matter what. ANd also-= because I couldn't seem to get things settled for B- that was alwasy in horrible limbo even fter help came- I had a hard time relxing, not worrying or enjoying myself. People would say- get a life for you - it can't all rest on B's being ok. Wrong- My not having a LIFE is not an issue- unless she is ok- there is no one esle - there is no safety net and I really don't care if I have a wonderful full life- as much as I need to know she is ok and work on that-. My peace about that is more improtant than needed to have a big social life or whatever. ANd that is true. I still do that - it is neccessary to e very involved in her life- cause no one else is . even with the extra help..Takes a lot of time and energy altho not as much as before but -- well- here is the clencher. Even if she were completely settled- I would still not likey do the things to make my life the way I wanted it to be. I do things I enjoy- in little ways- when I can- and that is nice- but I feel guilty about all the ways I fall short in life- the ways I have disappointed myself and others- the mistakes I have made and can't make up for-- and nothing good I do seems to make up for it- espewcially since I keep doing some of those sme things. it means my integrity slid. I really do not know how to be imperfefctly imperfect- and accept myself. which I know is a perfectly ok thing to do.( I don't believe it about myself but I belive it about you) Just can't stay stuck in this thoughts unless something helps them.. Is so much physical ( clinical ) as it is mental( the way I think)- and I know this- but it really is the truth. I don't imagine it and I am NOT deluded- just much too focued on it than is healthy. Especailly as winter apraoches- I have SAD bad ( and take meds for it) but have to be very careful not to get real introspective or wil get the blues bad0 and I canot afford to have those real bad.. Many good Ideas- will take them into consideration- know they have merit- just can't wrap my mind around them right now-- I do know that the ACTION I do does change the way I feel - so ACTION is the answer for me- not mulling over stuff(* having mulled with and without professional and or reigious/ spiritual help with little or lousy results!) Sorry if this should be on byways. Figured I would tell you all now or wouldn't have the guts later. Real open wound for me- Bandaids is essential for good scab not to get knocked off and with good bandids - there is some healing and good scarring-- scarring is good- we can live with scars- just need not to be the walking wounded. Going to go cry while I do some dishes. It is just crying and ok. Bizzy
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Post by howardsgirlfriend on Sept 25, 2009 4:03:41 GMT -5
You are a worthy, valuable, person, just as you are. Your worth and value are not based on doing things perfectly, or even on trying to do them perfectly. You demonstrate the strength of your character by placing DD's well-being ahead of your own (I did not have any kids, because I did not believe I could do this consistently enough to raise a child well.)
You can acquire more skills, and apply them effectively, but you have worth and value independant of what you do.
It's important to continue expanding your repertoire of skills. Expanding your repertoire allows you to grow as a person, and improve the quality of life for you and your family. You are already worthy and valuable, even if you never learn another thing.
Please note that I say this as much for myself as for you. I learned this quite recently, and need to remind myself often.
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Post by lostagain on Sept 25, 2009 9:39:50 GMT -5
Bizzy...I don't have kids - but I could have written everything that you just did. Like there's a big balance, between "good" and "bad" and no matter what I put on the "good" side I always feel the "bad" side is what defines me!
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Post by howardsgirlfriend on Sept 25, 2009 13:14:02 GMT -5
I used to believe absolutely that if I could get my weight under control, and keep it under control, that then I would like how my body looked. Only a couple of years ago, I had an epiphany: I will never really like how my body looks. I had assumed that getting in shape was my way to achieve inner peace, and I was wrong! Wow!
I can be at peace now, accepting that I have an irrational dislike of my appearance.
I'm sharing this here, in the hope that some of you can draw an analogy with you and your sense of self-worth. Cleaning up may not be the way to achieve that sense of self-worth. Don't expect it to carry that burden, and it might be easier to do it.
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Post by Bizzy on Sept 25, 2009 16:31:30 GMT -5
Hmmmmmm. Thinking here folks...
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Post by puppybox on Sept 25, 2009 17:28:37 GMT -5
yeah, this needs yelling from the rooftops!
There is a very good article by Martha Beck in this month's O magazine that talks about one's dominating issue , the one you think about it all the time, in order to avoid your other issues.
Of course, many of us at SOS have already realized that this is what squalor is for us. but this article had this great tip at the end to consider- for 10 minutes only, imagine your dominating problem was solved, what other problems do you need to work on? you may panic, but just think of one teeny tiny step you can take to fix one of those. then go back to worrying about your dominating issue.
the amazing part of the article for me is that Beck inplied that your dominating issue is not necessarily a bad thing, it comforts you and gives you something to think about so that other, worse problems ddon't overwhelm you. also it said that if you fix those problems the dominating issue might go away without effort. for example, a client who obsessed about weight finanlly lost it after getting rid of her evil husband. A woman with depression realised her depression unified her otherwise very prone to fighting parents and siblings. of course, i'm telling it all very poorly but I felt it related to Eris's wise comment.
PS howard's gf: I thought so too. Then I lost weight. Nothing changed! now I'm obsessed with my skin.
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Post by howardsgirlfriend on Sept 25, 2009 22:17:05 GMT -5
About 25 years ago, I lost 20#, and guys who hadn't looked at me twice started flirting with me. At first, I really liked it, but then I felt angry that only 20# would make such a difference.
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Post by CourageouslyLion SeeksSerenity on Aug 20, 2010 19:21:32 GMT -5
bumping this thread up the forefront, for anyone who might find it helpful.
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Post by luckyleprechaun on Aug 20, 2010 19:24:41 GMT -5
glad to see you posting again lioness how was the Inspector?
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Post by Louie on Aug 21, 2010 2:41:26 GMT -5
thanks for sharing this, it's one of things that really hits home. I will be re-reading this each day. I have now begun to say to myself " their just dishes" when I go into the kitchen. I used to walk in and see 'stuff' everywhere and I would immediately start telling myself all kinds of negative things, and drag up all the sadness of the last five years. Then I was too upset to clean anything as I wasn't cleaning dishes, I was trying to clean up a whole heap of emotional pain. Now I remind myself they are 'just dishes' and I 'just do it" thanks so much Eris
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Post by yearning4order on Aug 21, 2010 13:23:35 GMT -5
Thank you Lioness. I cried the first time I read this. I so desperately needed to know I was not my mess, I was a lady trying to desqualor.
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