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Post by moonglow on Jun 25, 2010 1:08:33 GMT -5
Hi BTT, I too have been AWOL for a while and am just catching up. Reason? Since my oldest dog died, the middle dog, who has had problems with separation anxiety in the past, has just gone through the roof. I have been completely overwhelmed by the huge messes she has been making, my own depression, etc. More details to come in my blog...but my point is, I know where you are coming from.
KNOW that a move will be stressful for both dogs, but probably more so for Shep.
Separation anxiety, or even dogs who are "bored", can be difficult to treat. But it can be done. It is not cheap, and it is not easy. There are lots and lots of things that can be tried, but it requires determination first and also some cash flow. If you are unable or unwilling - either financially or energy-wise - to do the things Shep needs to become a whole and happy dog, then I agree it may be time to consider giving him up.
I know that you love Shep and you have sometimes in the past made statements that seem flippant and casual, and then you come back and say you didn't mean it that way.
If you commit to keeping Shep, you can call a local shelter or do internet searches for ideas to help Shep. I know many things have been suggested by members of this board also.
If you are truly at the end of your resources for Shep, please don't have him destroyed. I don't remember, but if Shep is a purebred there are breed rescue organizations that will take him. If not, please take him to a NO KILL shelter. Call around, because they may be full or have waiting lists. If you advertise "dog free to good home", you put him at risk for being used for medical research or other dubious practices (bait dog for fighting rings). Don't take the chance. The shelter may charge you money for taking Shep, but he deserves this from you who have loved him.
BTT I know that you have a huge and loving heart that you sometimes gruffly cover up. If I wasn't struggling so much with my own dog, and if I had a reliable car, I would be on my way there now. Please give Shep the best possible chance.
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Post by yearning4order on Jun 25, 2010 2:21:57 GMT -5
Folks, I feel compelled to point out that even for the non-squallorous, moves are terribly, terribly stressful. Compound that with any decluttering we have to do to get the job done, working two jobs, plus trying to find an acceptable, affordable rental that allows one to have pets--I think it's wise to cut some slack on the wording. I know when I was looking, some of the places I was looking at were either waaaaay too expensive for me, or total pits--in my town it's nearly impossible to find a rental that allows you to have a dog, even small ones. It was nothing short of a miracle that we found a place I 1. can afford; 2. can keep my dog; 3. is near my daughter's school. At many junctures I worried I would have to eventually give up our little dog, even though I work from home and that's made it possible to work with her on her unique challenges. I can only imagine how stressful this has been for BTT, especially with knee and back problems to boot. Keep in mind not everyone has the same view on animals. For instance, many of you know that I have zero issue trapping to kill mice in my home. No guilt about it. I know for some of you this is unthinkable. That doesn't make me a bad person, it just means we have different views on things. That said, keep the fantastic ideas coming about how to find a challenging dog a great new home!!!
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Post by bigtimetroubles on Jun 25, 2010 3:49:02 GMT -5
I am mad...the house might fall through....hugs btt
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Post by StuffNoMore on Jun 25, 2010 9:14:56 GMT -5
Oh nooo why btt? I was so hoping this move would happen for you. SNM
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Post by moggyfan on Jun 25, 2010 9:36:17 GMT -5
trying to find an acceptable, affordable rental that allows one to have pets--I think it's wise to cut some slack on the wording. "...if he chews the new carpet I am taking him to be destroyed" Sorry, Y4O. I don't see this as a "wording" issue. It could hardly be clearer or more callous.
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Post by yearning4order on Jun 25, 2010 9:52:24 GMT -5
I am mad...the house might fall through....hugs btt Keep your head up BTT. I have to confess to you that the only thing that got me through the house search part was tons of extra prayer, extra calls to my sponsor, and extra meetings. The night I sat in a meeting with a lot of new comers, and each of them shared about how they'd all slept under bridges, in newspaper boxes of the local homeless shelter, in a bush across the street from the detox center while waiting for a bed to open up--it really helped me realize that no matter where we ended up, it was going to be ok. But it was a very tenuous mind set, and I had to regularly infuse myself with help from AA to not get overwhelmed by my fear, disappointment, negative self talk about whether or not I could actually get myself out of here. The housing crash has finally hit my local market so there are far more rentals available than there used to be, and the prices have come down. But there are many people like me, who had been pushed into outlying areas due to cost who are now scurrying to take advantage in the sudden ability to find rentals in parts of town where it was previously unaffordable and impossible. It's still a college town, so often the not-working college students are first on the scene as applicants for rentals. I can't tell you how many times I put in apps on places I thought would be perfect for us, only to find out I'd been beaten out by college students--because I work for a living and can't afford to take time off to cruise for a new place. I really believe the right place is out there for you, just keep taking right action to get there, and help support your spiritual condition to make it easier for you.
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Post by disorganizeddragon on Jun 25, 2010 10:21:26 GMT -5
trying to find an acceptable, affordable rental that allows one to have pets--I think it's wise to cut some slack on the wording. "...if he chews the new carpet I am taking him to be destroyed" Sorry, Y4O. I don't see this as a "wording" issue. It could hardly be clearer or more callous. I wholeheartedly agree with Moggy. There's no wording issue here. The statement ". . .if he chews the new carpet I am taking him to be destroyed" is very clear and could not possibly be construed to mean anything but exactly what it says. Animals are living beings that feel emotions such as stress and boredom just like we do. However, since they lack opposable thumbs and access to things like computers and cars, their outlets to relieve the stress and boredom are somewhat limited. So dogs chew things up, cats scratch things up, birds tear things up, etc. BTT, if having carpets is more important than having Shep, please take him to a shelter. Having a dog destroyed just because he's acting like a dog is unconscionable.
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Post by bigtimetroubles on Jun 25, 2010 11:06:03 GMT -5
the house is a go I am renting it....
Moggy and all the others.....there was another part to that statement of course that you left out...I would take him to the humane society was the other part of that statement....
I am moving into this new house as soon as they have it ready for me....
hugs btt
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Post by disorganizeddragon on Jun 25, 2010 11:30:51 GMT -5
So if your plan all along was to only take him to the Humane Society, why did you even mention taking him to have him destroyed? We know there was two parts to your statement; we didn't mention the part about the Humane Society because that was not the part that upset us. The first part of your quote, "but if he chews the new carpet I am taking him to be destroyed. . ." is what was upsetting and what people took issue with.
Congratulations on your new home.
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Post by clutterfree on Jun 25, 2010 11:39:35 GMT -5
I feel compelled to speak up here, not so much about what BTT said, but about a response to it. I don't disagree with anyone who thinks the idea of taking a dog to be destroyed over chewing carpets is terrible. (And BTT, I think you could probably guess the stir you would cause when you posted that.) I hope that was said in frustration and is an exaggeration. But because I think the dog will most likely destroy things in the new house just like the old, it would be best to find a good home for him.
But Little Ninja, I also think explaining to BTT that you're a better dog parent than him because you would keep a dog no matter how destructive or poorly behaved is ridiculous. If you have a problem with the 'destroy' sentiment, you're right to say something. But to try to slather on the guilt that he may not keep a dog that's not right for him, that's not only just a shot in anger, but it's enabling squalor.
I commend you for how much you care for your pets and that you don't care how destructive or messy they might be. But there are many people who would be far better off by recognizing that they can't manage the pets they have or at least not as many as they have, and giving them different homes. I'm not saying that's right for you, but it's clearly right for some people. When squalor creeps in, pet upkeep like scooped litter boxes and prompt cleaning of messes, whether biological or from destruction, is often one of the first things to slide.
I realize you said that he should find a home for it. But then you scold him for that in the next sentence by pointing out how you would never do that, no matter what because you're a true dog lover. Pretty unfair.
I have kept dogs that I could not housebreak properly, and it's a royal pain in the bottom. That's my decision, and not one I would try to guilt anyone else over, and as far as squalor it was a huge mistake. I wouldn't change it now, but I also wouldn't criticize or judge anyone for finding another home for a dog that he doesn't have the energy or the time to teach proper behaviors.
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Post by moggyfan on Jun 25, 2010 11:45:05 GMT -5
Yes, I can read and of course I saw both halves of the statement.
You mentioned two alternatives.
The truth is you could mention a thousand alternatives, but if the first one on the list is having the poor dog destroyed, you can hardly be surprised when you provoke a strong reaction.
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Post by disorganizeddragon on Jun 25, 2010 12:12:16 GMT -5
But I also think explaining to BTT that you're a better dog parent than him because you would keep a dog no matter how destructive or poorly behaved is ridiculous. If you have a problem with the 'destroy' sentiment, you're right to say something. But to try to slather on the guilt that he may not keep a dog that's not right for him, that's not only just a shot in anger, but it's enabling squalor. Well, I know I didn't say I was a better dog parent. (I can't have dogs in my apartment and besides, my cats would pick on them.) I simply said that animals have reactions to stress and boredom just like people, that those reactions can sometimes be destructive, and that if this was an issue to BTT, that he please take Shep to a shelter. I would never encourage anyone to keep an animal they cannot care for, no matter what the reason. That's a no-win situation for everyone involved. But having a healthy animal destroyed simply because of behavioral problems that might possibly be overcome by someone else who has more time or energy or money or whatever to train them is unfair to the animal. When an animal is surrendered, there is at least a chance, however small, that it may be adopted into a good and loving home. However, just choosing to have an animal destroyed without giving it at least the smallest chance at life is, as I said before, unconscionable.
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Post by clutterfree on Jun 25, 2010 12:20:22 GMT -5
Well, I know I didn't say I was a better dog parent.
No, you didn't. The post I'm talking about is pretty clear.
I agreed with your sentiment that he should find a home for the dog. (And where I am, the humane society is a kill shelter after a number of days so I would hate to see that, too. Hopefully another home could be found.)
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Post by disorganizeddragon on Jun 25, 2010 12:29:33 GMT -5
Your humane society is a kill shelter? That's horrible. You know, I've often wondered how many animals might be saved if local shelters could make arrangements with pet stores and/or animal trainers in their areas to offer free classes on overcoming various animal behavioral issues, such as dogs chewing up carpets and furniture or cats peeing outside their boxes. I know a lot of people simply can't afford the expense of taking such a class, but if it was offered for free, I'm sure many folks that would like to keep their pets would take advantage of them.
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Post by clutterfree on Jun 25, 2010 12:36:01 GMT -5
DD, while The Humane Society in itself may be a no-kill shelter, these organizations (not all probably but I'm guessing many, and I know the closest to me does) send animals to other places like animal control that do kill. Taking an animal there is no guarantee it won't be euthanized. If they get more animals than they can handle, which happens a lot because people will dump animal outside without calling to make sure they hve room, they have little choice but to send some elsewhere.
Animal fostering is great but I don't think they've organized that, and there's always the question of finding foster homes.
It's sad, but at least they try. Our local no-kill shelter is always full, so they probably have to do the same thing.
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