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You all made me cry. Such wonderful, understanding, supportive friends! I have done a few things. Not completely stagnate. Dishes, laundry and cooking. Taking care of animals. Just basic stuff.
I am more upset over all the stuff everywhere. No place to be that is not overrun with it.
I had an "AHA" moment while doing morning pages. I am being very passive aggressive with Hubby. I really hate confrontation. I keep stuff piled here and there because if I remove all my things he will simply take up the space with more of his stuff. Or bring in even more stuff! It was a real eye opener for me.
I have no place that is mine in this house.
He has stuff in every room except Oldest's room. He removed all of it from his room! Strong kid that one.
It is definitely time for a talk. Then a family meeting. I am also thinking of calling in some favors for some help. I have a few people who know of our situation and have offered to assist in a massive clean up.
Of course Hubby has to be on board for some of it. I don't want to send him into some sort of panic mode. But he has to realize the impact it is having on the entire family.
So I am not completely gone. I just feel I am being hypocritical to be here without trying to do anything about my situation.
Thanks again for all the support and wonderful words. You all are truly a lifeline. Started in Youngest's room last night. I was talking to my sister on the phone and after a crying rant to her I just started one box at a time.
Youngest came in and went through stuff with me. He was great! We tossed out 1 large garbage bag of misc. broken or missing parts toys. We went through 3 medium plastic bins. Some toys to take to my mother's house for the great grandbabies to play with when they visit. We took back about 3 square feet of floor! I washed his bedding, turned his mattress and freshened it. I think that is why he was right in there with me even though Spongebob was on! He is excited to get stuff out of there. It is a great motivator for me. Oldest came in and promised his time today to help.
Small steps, but steps forward.
Hubby came in and said "just put my stuff to the side and I will go through it". I said I had planned on it! . He is not happy about it, but it will get out of there! He has Saturday off and we will have a nice discussion about the stuff in the house. Dear Shell,
I know it's hard that you're a "messy" person, struggling to recover from your own messiness, while simultaneously being married to a hoarder who hasn't yet shown willingness to recover from his hoarding-ness.
Add in having children, and I can see how the chaos would accumulate.
I applaud that, even while you were spending those few days in what you called "giving up" mode ... you were STILL doing dishes, laundry, and cooking. That's HUGE !!!
To me, that's not giving up. You may spent a few days away from herding the family chaos, but you never stopped doing the basics. That says a lot for you!
REGARDING OLDEST SON:
Hubby
<snip>
He has stuff in every room except Oldest's room. He removed all of it from his room! Strong kid that one.Sorting through the pronoun "he": I take your report to mean that your hubby has put hubby's stuff in every room but your oldest son's room. Your oldest son was strong enough to remove all of your hubby's stuff from oldest son's room ! Strong kid, your oldest son is!
Yes, your oldest son is strong physically -- to be able to physically pick up and carry your husband's things out of son's room. Your oldest son is strong emotionally, to have chosen to do that, and to make a "statement" by his actions, that oldest-son doesn't want your hubby's stuff in oldest-son's room.
Good for your oldest son!
Oldest came in and promised his time today to help. You said "came in" -- and from the context/placement of that comment within your story, I think you meant that your oldest son came into your younger son's room while you were working on it.
It sounds as though your oldest son is willing to help a little bit with organizing your younger son's room? WOW!
I think your oldest son will become an ally in cleaning up the house. Maybe not as effectively as you'd like him to. Probably not as consistently as you'd like. And maybe not when he want to be with friends or playing a game. But certainly SOME of the time.
At any rate, it certainly sounds like oldest son would be willing to support you in drawing a line in the sand about your hubby's hoarding taking over the house.
You might have SOME success in getting oldest son to regularly participate in housekeeping, although you'll naturally find him resistant at times. It will be hard to maintain the discipline, but it sounds like he appreciates an uncluttered room, so maybe he will LEARN to value the process of cleaning.
I did notice that oldest son promised to help -- when he saw you working on younger son's room.
To me, that sounds like he appreciates YOUR efforts ! (even if he doesn't directly say so).
REGARDING YOUNGER SON:Started in Youngest's room last night.
Youngest came in and went through stuff with me. He was great! We tossed out 1 large garbage bag of misc. broken or missing parts toys. We went through 3 medium plastic bins. Some toys to take to my mother's house for the great grandbabies to play with when they visit. We took back about 3 square feet of floor! I think that is why he was right in there with me even though Spongebob was on! He is excited to get stuff out of there. It is a great motivator for me. It sounds like younger son wants to have his own room free of hubby's stuff, too.
Another ally!
And younger son was helping you go through bins of his own toys! That's huge!
He was excited about it! He APPRECIATED WHAT YOU WERE DOING !!!!!!
Shell dear, I really do think your sons will work with you. It will just take consistent unending effort on your part, to remind them of how they like clutter-free rooms.
I know that "consistent unending effort" seems like a drag, but that's how it goes.
But this thread isn't about them.
This thread is about YOU.
When you do your part, your family appreciates it, even if they don't adequately express it. And even if they often add to the mess.
YOU Shell, YOU, continued doing dishes, laundry, and cooking, even when you were sulking.
YOU Shell, YOU, eventually stopped sulking and got back to work on the rest of the chaos.
REGARDING HUBBY:You've previously (on other threads) stated that your hubby is a seriously compulsive hoarder. And with a compulsive hoarder, the worst thing you can do is throw out all their stuff without their permission -- as that retriggers the need to hoard even stronger.
You cannot change him. He and only he can change himself.
And you already know all that.
But that's no reason to give up, as you finally realized.
Where to go from here? I think that others on this thread have suggested things like having a designated area for his hoard. That seems reasonable.
I also STRONGLY agree that you need a room of your own. Your sons already realize that they each need a room of their own.
I applaud your willingness to have a conversation with hubby.
I would suggest that you tell what you and your sons
NEED. You each need spaces of your own. I think it's really important that you outline your own needs, and how the hoard affects you and your sons. But make it about you and your sons' feelings and needs. Don't make it about "telling hubby what to do".
You might consider, letting him know that you and your sons each need a designated space of your own. And then ... perhaps, in exchange, you could offer a designated area of the home for his hoard
that you won't complain about?
I don't know the physical layout of your house or the emotional dynamics of your family, so I don't know if that would work or not. Please disregard any of my suggestions that aren't right for you.
But I do think you need to establish some boundaries ... whether they be physical or not. You still need emotional boundaries.
You've mentioned elsewhere that your hubby has an old issue that he's recovered from. (For privacy's sake, I won't get into that here.) You've previously expressed concern that you don't want to confront your hubby about his hoarding -- because you don't want to upset him enough to "trigger" his old issue.
I can certainly understand that. But ...
Perhaps you yourself Shell can go to Al-Anon meetings?
I know your hubby's NOT an alcoholic.
But ... although Al-Anon was originally created for family and friends of alcoholics ...
... nowadays Al-Anon is often helpful to friends and family members of people with all sorts of "issues".
You can go to the meeting and mentally substitute your husband's other issue, and also his hoarding -- for the word "alcohol".
The meetings might give you support about living with a dysfunctional person.
You can learn about setting your own boundaries for yourself, and learn about not enabling the other person -- while at the same time, learning how to remain loving and nonjudgmental.
If you're not into the whole 12-Step scene, perhaps you could just go to meetings for the
group support of "people learning to sanely cope with dysfunctional family members". Get what you can out of it, and ignore the pieces that don't work for you.
I'm suggesting this because this thread is about YOU. And this is something you can do
for yourself.
You can't change your hubby, as you already know. But you can perhaps get some support for yourself -- especially on how to set healthy boundaries, while remaining loving.
And, of course, by all means we WANT you here at SOS, because we love you !
Love,
Lioness
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