hopehope
Banned
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 3,815
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Post by hopehope on Aug 27, 2008 15:31:10 GMT -5
You sound so much better, rose. I'm so glad. worried aboutyou. best -- hopehope
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Post by limegreen on Aug 27, 2008 20:24:07 GMT -5
Rose, what a horrible scarey time you have had. I'm glad your Mother has clarified what she feels needs to be done. And if the stuff is the plastic bags in the garage is stinky, maybe you can allow yourself to toss it, after all, you deserve nice stuff, not wet nasty stuff. And the rest, just haul it out of the way whilst Uncle is here and deal later. But most importantly, take care of you!
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Post by roseoftexas on Aug 28, 2008 1:47:35 GMT -5
...they are also fairly conservative, family oriented, extremely hard workers...
That is my background, too, in an agricultural family. It is strange, kind of, because I never really ever felt like I 'fit' in this culture. But those are my roots, and I have come to accept and appreciate them. This is where I come from.
As a youth, I was actively involved in an organization growing up that encouraged "appreciating diversity" and as I grew older, I've had the privilege of being exposed to people from all different backgrounds and cultures and belief systems. I do try to keep an open mind - that lesson/value of appreciating diversity in this world has not been lost on me. In fact, I think it has only grown stronger.
I try my best to be open-minded and listen to others' perspectives - even those I disagree with. It 'widens my world', so to speak, and makes me think. I try to accept others for who they are, including those I disagree with. To me, it's not bad, it's just different. That doesn't mean I condone/endorse certain ideas - I just try to learn from them.
I don't know what the heck I wrote all that for - guess the old adage is that people love to talk about themselves, which is what I appear to be doing - ha! But maybe it gives some context, too, to my situation and helps people understand me better.
But ENOUGH of that already!!!
...and there are alot of strange and unspoken concepts of pride, values and ethics as well as love.. and that leaves a lot of room for miscommunication and in the wake of that... a lot of hurt...
Right. Most definitely! You put it very well!
...what has helped me cope with my family that can suffocate me with love is to clearly ask- what are you concerned about? what would you like me to do? -what are your expectations?- much like you did in your email. i don't always respond exactly how they would like me to. but at least it's clearly stated at that point. i can address their concerns and lay some of them to rest. i can get their input to things that i might actually not think about or notice in grief, depression, and overwhelm. and i can show them respect by listening to their wisdom.. because as much as i sometimes want to jam my head into my pillow and cry, and sometimes do, when i feel under attack by them.. they are some of the most amazing and caring people i've ever met and all in all.. i feel pretty lucky to be born into my family.
You do sound very lucky. I would also have to agree that asking for specifics regarding what people/family members expect of you is a highly productive exercise. Getting my mom to put her concerns in writing forced her to clarify for herself in her mind what is bothering her and my Dad about the situation the most.
So that when I asked, on the phone, "What do you want, Mom?"
we went from, "Well, that's up to you to decide."
to
"Please remove the plastic bags full of papers in the utility room that got wet and the cats peed on causing an odor. I need to be able to get into my closets, and for the room not to look cluttered when Uncle <deleted> walks in.
Please remove the plastic bags that have clothing and papers in them in the east side of the garage that got wet, and some of the stuff got damaged from the water.
Please remove the black plastic bags next to the door that we have to step around to go through the door from the garage into the untility room."
That helped me a lot! Clearly, there was a miscommunication and now the confusion has (thankfully!!!) been cleared!
things sound more complicated for you because you are dependent on your family in some ways.. it sounds like they really do love because in some ways they are trying to provide for you.. i other ways they sound like they don't have the slightest clue about how your mind works or what triggers how you feel or your reactions..
Right. Exactly!!!
but from what you say it doesn't sound like they don't love you, they just don't comprehend...sort of paralleling how you don't know what they expect from you while staying in the house..
Right again!
you stated at one point that they weren't proud of the living situation i think? i am somewhat afraid to type this, you sound on the ragged edge already and like the last thing you need is an additional burden.. but one way that everyone might feel better is if instead of being the inhabitant of an otherwise idle home you were to view it as being the caretaker of the home. it's not just a warehouse for you and your possessions that your parents are kindly lending you without return.. but you are the care taker of their property.. rather than just not injuring/damaging/lessening the real value or value as perceived by them you are actually doing a service. an occupied building is less likely to be vandalised, any weather damage will be immediately noticed.. it might actually be very meaningful to your family if you expressed that you would like to repay them in that way and if there's anything you could do to achieve that... if the idea of adding one more thing to your plate for any reason is too much, please forgive me. i just have enough of my own family's insane sense of responsibility that it helps as a goad as well as a guide to feel that i have an obligation to do something.. and there's a certain sense of pride in earning and doing that can give meaning rather than just being gifted with something.. or feeling beholden and or at someone else's mercy...
What an excellent point! I had never thought of it from that perspective. I do know my mother was actually able to save money on homeowner's insurance (I believe it was) because they were able to change the designation of this being a "weekend home" to a "residence" since I have been living here. I think, for me, to see myself as a caretaker (and actually take better care of the place!!!) - that would do wonders for my self-esteem.
You are so very, very right about their being a sense of pride in earning and doing. Which somewhere along the way, I seem to have completely lost but I would so very, very much like to regain. I want it so badly, I... I can barely put it into words. Thank you so much for sharing your thoughts - you're really helping me!!
this has been an extremely long post and i very rarely post here... i'm afraid the entire message is out of line..
Oh goodness no! Not in any way, shape, form, or fashion! Your thoughts and ideas have been a great help to me! My goodness, it makes me feel so good that I came here and posted my fears and confusions and frustations because you all have really encouraged and helped me!!
I was so upset the other day...I was barely even coherent. I was really, really, really upset!
...the people here care about you and are wishing you the best. please take care of yourself rose.
Thank you. Thank you so very, very much, and the same to you. I have not posted as much here as I did on the old forums, but I do visit regularly. If not every day, at least every few days. Even though I haven't had the time to be as involved as I was in the past (which may be for the best actually, as I think I may previously have allowed myself to become over-involved), I must re-iterate right now how much I appreciate and value you all so much!
And I recognize your name and remember (some not all) but many of the details of your story when it was on SS. While I always welcome comments from anyone and everyone, it's always nice to hear from someone with a username I recognize. So please, don't feel out of line in any way! I really really appreciate your taking the time to share your thoughts and wish you all the best as you continue to cope with your own issues.
Love, Rose
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Post by roseoftexas on Aug 28, 2008 3:51:32 GMT -5
Since the "deal", as you put it, was that the house in which you are living always would be available (and, in your mother's mind, at least--"company ready" at all times), then that is the standard to which you are obligated.
However, I'm having a really, really difficult time keeping my "snarkniness" in check here! WHY can your parents NOT have company at the home in which they are living?!!!! Is it because they live so far out in the country, or is it because THEY have a home that is too full of "stuff" to have visitors? If it is the latter, I can't help but think that the way that they are treating you is extremely hypocritical. Then again, they get an "A+" for having come up with a workable solution--have ANOTHER home strictly for receiving visitors. How many of us squalorers wish that we could afford to do that?!!! !!! (I'd certainly do it, if I could--a sweet, little guesthouse, out in the back yard--picture perfect, as in "Better Homes and Gardens"--ah, I can picture it now!) Oh Arid! I roared with laughter the first time I read these comments yesterday afternoon - and I am still laughing! Wow, it's hard to explain. Lots and lots and lots of issues! First off, having a second 'home' I suppose gives the perception of wealth, but we are far from wealthy. We do not live a lavish lifestyle, and we do not drive fancy cars. (My parents' vehicles are all beat up and very used. And I drive what I can sometimes barely afford, which is a little Kia that gets good gas mileage!) As previously mentioned, my parents are agricultural people (they farm and ranch). Anybody who has ever tried to make a living farming and ranching knows that it is not that profitable of an enterprise. I think those who do manage to earn a good living from it must be extremely good businesspeople or ... something ... because it is just not that profitable for the majority of the fellow farmers and ranchers my parents know - at all!!! It is a hard life. My parents have lived a very, very hard life, but it is all they know. They love the land and the outdoors, and they wouldn't have it any other way. They don't even seem to want to 'retire' - even being in their early '70s now. My mom has always said that my dad will 'die with his boots on' - they just can't imagine life any other way. They just love the lifestyle. And I can't really explain that, because it's not a lifestyle I particularly "love" - ! But this is about them, not me. My mother grew up in a farm family during the drought of the 1950s. Her parents were very, very, very hard workers. Her dad was a very innovative person and while others failed, he managed to succeed. They never had much as far as material things were concerned, but they managed to make it. When they got older, my grandparents sold the farm to my parents, managed to build this little house, and live/retire (as I understand it) off of whatever was left. It is nothing fancy - I guarantee you. It is an humble 2-bedroom home, and I don't think "Better Homes and Gardens" is going to be beating down the door any time soon for a photo op! That said, yes, it is the latter reason you mentioned that this house 'must' be kept 'company-ready'. My mother is very perfectionistic, and it is really hard to keep their house in the country (that they live in) clean. She can sweep and mop the floors and have everything all nice and neat, and then my dad will come home from working and sweating and such all day with mud all over his boots and track it all over the house. And then there's the cats. My parents have lots of cats - mostly outdoor cats. But 3 (and on occasion, another) cats that go in and out all the time. So there's their little muddy pawprints, too. And the cat hair. And the dust. The way the house is positioned, next to a field - it is hard to describe. But it is just a dust magnet. Add to that that my parents have hoarding tendencies - not extreme - but they do definitely have strong hoarding tendencies... and it is a recipe for a mess. And they don't have air conditioning, but they are used to it. They have lived without air conditioning for years, which is very hard for visitors to feel comfortable in for very long - especially during the really hot days of summer when it is close to or well over a 100 degrees outside (37 degrees Celsius). So it is a combination of all those things that generally makes their "home home" not very company-friendly. So that when my mom inherited this house from her parents after they passed on, I guess they did find a workable solution to not being able to have visitors in the house they actually live in. Invite company here, instead. As a child, I never felt comfortable coming here. This house always had a cold feeling to it. Probably because it was unlived-in. It has a very cold, sterile feeling to it (even now) because it's just - I don't know. I mentioned to some people here before - it's like living in a motel. I have everything I need (and believe me - I am NOT complaining!!! - just trying to explain), but it does not feel like "home". And that's why, too, that it is hard to move all my things to the sheds out back. I can't get to my things. And I have such a strong identification with my "things" that their wanting to move them really did (still does, to a degree) make me feel uncomfortable even being in this house. Like if they don't want my things here, then they must not want me here because... my things are a part of me. I think that is probably unhealthy; I mean to have such a strong identification with and attachment to one's possessions... but there you have it. So, I don't know if that helps explain?
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Post by Rennie Ellen on Aug 28, 2008 6:36:38 GMT -5
RoseOfTexas,Rose: I can remember when, like the subject of cancer, divorce was such a TABOO subject! When my brother was getting a divorce, my father wailed, ". . .but we've never had a divorce in OUR family!!!" I grimly told him, " Well, you've got one now."
You hit the nail on the head. I had never realized there was a 'taboo' associated with cancer, but divorce (in my parents' eyes) - most definitely. Glad you're doing OK.
When I was 5 years old in 1965, my daddy was diagnosed with malignant melanoma. There were no patient support groups back then....no Relay For Life where survivors marched together....no media awareness about cancer like there is now. When anyone in my family dared to discuss it, they spoke in whispers, like it was a deep, dark, shameful, evil secret. Some of daddy's relatives never came to visit him, afraid they would "catch" the disease from Daddy. Yet throughout his 20 year battle with cancer, he lived with a quiet courage and was determined it wouldn't stop him from living and loving. When I was diagnosed 13 years after his death, I already knew how to deal with cancer from watching him.
Thank God we've come a long way since then. Now every time I attend a support group or march alongside fellow survivors in a Relay For Life, I think of how Daddy would have loved and enjoyed how survivors support each other and could say the word "cancer" (and wear it on t-shirts!) without shame or embarrassment.
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Post by roseoftexas on Aug 28, 2008 6:41:54 GMT -5
So, today is the day my uncle arrives. Yesterday was my day off, and my mom spent the entire day up here mowing the yard. I was going to hire someone (not that I have a lot of extra money), but I was still going to try to find someone to get it done. So instead of tending to the bags, as I really wanted to do that in privacy, I: Washed up a bunch of crusty dishes & loaded them up in the dishwasher Unloaded the dishwasher & put away the dishes Washed up a second load of crusty dishes & loaded them up in the dishwasher Scoured the kitchen sink until it was gleaming Disinfected & wiped down the kitchen counters Washed off the portable dishwasher that somehow had ice cream that had dribbled down the side of it Went & bought groceries Went to bed after my mom finally left, while the second dishwasher was running, as my mom woke me up to begin her mowing marathon So I was working to overcome my demand-resistance and address the issues expressed by my parents that they're not happy about. I went out to the garage and started. And then I walked over to one of the trash cans that appeared to be full with yard clippings and such from when my mom mowed yesterday. I took the bag out - and these are those cheapo trash bin liners. The bag seemed unusually heavy, as if it was going to rip before I could tie it up and carry it over to the garbage cart. So I was going to get another bag and double-bag it, but thought to myself - what the heck is in there??? (That was so heavy.) And in the very bottom was my magazine collection that one of my parents apparently deemed "trash" when they began this whole thing the other day. I'm telling you ... this doesn't sit very well with me. My parents have medicine cabinets in this house full of medicines and ointments dating back to the 1960s (I am NOT joking!) and I have always respected their things enough not to touch them or throw them away. To me, it is trash. But that is beside the point. It is NOT my trash to be throwing away! My mother claims all they took the other day were the bookshelves and that they did put them in one of the back yard sheds. (I haven't checked yet.) What I can tell you is that if they did take something else that they deemed "trash" as well, it is not going to be good! And I will figure out if they took anything else because I know exactly what I had out there, as difficult as that may be for them to grasp. I will not fly into a rage. I will try to calm down, and perhaps send them an email explaining my feelings on this. I like very much djollydjolan's idea of my being a 'caretaker' of this house, and I'm happy to do so. But we are going to have to establish some boundaries. They have got to understand that all my stuff is all mixed up. I once had many "bags of bags" - you know, plastic shopping bags from the grocery store and Wal-Mart? And I was fixing to just throw them all out without going through them to make sure something hadn't gotten mixed up in it all, but I had this feeling I shouldn't. And it was a @*#& good thing I didn't just throw them all out! I found a Lenox lead crystal clock that had been given to me as a graduation gift some time back in the midst of all of them! So a person cannot just look in one of my bags for 3 seconds and say, "well that's just a bunch of crap!" and just go toss it! I'm sorry, but it just doesn't work that way!!!!! Boundaries! We have got to stand up for our boundaries, people!
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Post by Arid on Aug 28, 2008 13:16:57 GMT -5
Rose: I'm so glad that I didn't offend you! I'm on my way out-of-town for the weekend, so I don't have time to read or respond indepth, but I'm wishing you a happy holiday weekend, nonetheless.
Do take of yourself, Rose.
Your friend, Arid
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Post by mouse on Aug 28, 2008 14:33:18 GMT -5
Dear Rose,
I'm late to this thread, but wanted to express my sympathy at all the stress you've been under!
It sounds like you've made a lot of progress on communicating with your parents, so I hope you can resolve this latest problem about what they think is appropriate to throw away and what isn't. How very frustrating!
I have no good suggestions, sadly. My parents (luckily for me) were always very respectful of my space, and even when they insisted I clean it up they never threw anything of mine away without asking first.
Best of luck!
~Mouse
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Post by heylady1 on Aug 29, 2008 11:33:45 GMT -5
This is going to sound rather bitter but I think you when you contact your Mom about the magazines maybe you should mention the old medicine and ointments?? "Okay to throw those out Mom??" At least you were reading the magazines, keeping them for projects or future reference. What good can 40+ year old medicine do?? Probably kill you if you tried to use it!
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Post by eagle on Aug 29, 2008 13:23:14 GMT -5
Rose, I am sorry I missed this and did not reply earlier.
I became so alarmed when I read your first few entries, but as time went on your entries became clearer and it sounds like you are managing better.
But I am still concerned. If you can soon, I do hope you see your doctor and discuss this matter. It would seem that not only were your medications not meeting your needs a few days ago, but that you were on the verge of serious decompensation. But after taking them there was some improvement. Still, as long as these events continue to recurr, it would seem an alternate plan might be worth exploring with your doctor.
Again, I am sorry I did not read this sooner, and respond in your hour of need.
Take care.
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Post by roseoftexas on Aug 30, 2008 22:59:08 GMT -5
Rose, I am sorry I missed this and did not reply earlier.
I became so alarmed when I read your first few entries, but as time went on your entries became clearer and it sounds like you are managing better.
But I am still concerned. If you can soon, I do hope you see your doctor and discuss this matter. It would seem that not only were your medications not meeting your needs a few days ago, but that you were on the verge of serious decompensation. But after taking them there was some improvement. Still, as long as these events continue to recurr, it would seem an alternate plan might be worth exploring with your doctor.
Again, I am sorry I did not read this sooner, and respond in your hour of need.
Take care. Oh dear Earlene, please do not be sorry, as we are all leading such busy lives these days. It is simply impossible to keep up with/follow every thread that is posted to this board. And it is absolutely not expected, either, (at least as far as I'm concerned). As you can see, I received so many helpful responses when I was at first so acutely distressed and that is what is so great about this group...we are large enough in membership that we have enough members to support everyone and for that, I am so very grateful. Our membership is so diverse and varied that it is possible to get help here virtually any hour of the day or night. Granted, the "helper" may be on another continent, but that is A-OK with me. I had never heard of the word "decompensation" so I looked it up in the dictionary: dictionary.reference.com/browse/decompensationThere is a link to a concise, easy-to-understand definition for anyone else who's never heard of it either. Re: my doctor. I am to see him again in 3 weeks, and yes, he is watching me very carefully. I take great comfort in the fact that he seems genuinely concerned about my well-being and that when it comes to my case, he is "ON IT", if you know what I mean. One thing I can say is that it is becoming more and more apparent that Xanax has a profound effect not only on my brain, but my mood, my sense of reality, and a major impact, it seems, on my personality. This is the most frightening thing I've ever experienced in my life. But again, I take comfort in the fact that once I got the Xanax back in my system, my sense of reality and my sense of 'self' seemed to return. So that, it does not seem we are dealing with a more serious mental disorder other than depression, anxiety, and I guess you would call it 'OCD' when it comes to my possessions - that last part I'm not 100% sure of. One thing that frightens me a great deal is that if I had to get back on Xanax to get my sense of reality and my sense of 'self' back, then who in the hell am I without Xanax? That is off-topic, I know, so I will quit talking about that here. As far as my Uncle's visit is going, it is going as well as could be expected. I never did get the bags in the utility room moved, as I was so angry about what almost happened to my magazine collection. After that incident occurred, I actually made various attempts between work shifts and what not to get to them - and I do mean a myriad of attempts, but one thing or another constantly seemed to interfere with my efforts, so I have just given up on any more cleaning for the duration of his visit. Ironically, the very first thing he said upon entering the house, was, "The place looks good." (In reference to the recently mowed yard.) So I made sure to share the comment with my mother and tell her that he has never once made such a comment, even when I had this entire house spic and span, so that that acknowledgement of her efforts was definitely something to be proud of. Although my mother sent letters re: my brother's divorce to the family last week, he said he'd received no letter. So I was the one to break the news to him, as gently as I could. He was visibly saddened and disappointed. I did not go into any personal details but did relate to him that it has been a very difficult summer for our family, but we're doing our best to carry on. Some people I know on this forum have expressed astonishment and great confusion to me (in private) as to why a divorce is such a big deal to our family. And all I can really say is that is just proof of I guess what would be called the "generational divide", just as I had no idea that there was ever any sort of stigma against cancer. I hope it warms your heart, dear Rennie, that I was ignorant of that 'stigma'. Hopefully, that is an indicator of progress, as I see cancer as absolutely nothing to be ashamed of. Anyway, I am wandering off on all sorts of topical tangents that have absolutely nothing to do with squalor, so I will close. Thank you all for your continued kindness and support. It means more to me than any words could ever say. Love, Rose
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Post by roseoftexas on Aug 30, 2008 23:34:57 GMT -5
I just saw this thread: takeonestepatatime.proboards83.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=1483It looks like a very heavy discussion and I am just not up to reading and trying to digest it all right now. I would just like to apologize, sincerely, from the very very bottom of the depths of my heart, to any actual rape survivors who read this thread and found it hurtful or outrageous or offensive or traumatizing. I am so, so, so very sorry. I'm so sorry.I haven't read the thread yet, but I will. My heart goes out to anyone who was traumatized by my choice of words; I am so very sorry. Oh my goodness, I'm so sorry. If you can please understand that I was withdrawing from a high dose of an extremely powerful, addictive prescription drug when I started this thread and the actual event WAS extremely traumatic. (I mentioned there was a "confrontation". What I neglected to say was that, when my parents refused to STOP what they were doing and talk to me, I literally started throwing things, i.e. furniture, a heavy computer, and boxes of video and cassette tapes that spilled out all over the place) across the garage - frightening my parents so that they threatened to call the police. But I genuinely felt threatened and extremely frightened myself! I spoke with my doctor the very next day who insisted I go to the pharmacy immediately and refill my Xanax. (I was so incoherent that I could not even make it to his office; my "appointment" with him was over the phone.) Later that day, I did finally manage to pull myself together to get to the pharmacy - no easy task, as it was an 80 mile round trip, but I did it, per his insistence. I feel I have a long road ahead of me, as I mentioned in the previous post - I do not even know who "I" am when I am not on this drug. So I am so, so, so very sorry to all of you actual rape survivors that had to endure my poor choice of words. I feel horrible about that, and I am so sorry if I caused any of you any more pain or flashbacks or post-traumatic stress. I promise to be more careful in my choice of words from this point forward.
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Post by Moodle on Aug 31, 2008 1:49:36 GMT -5
kkl says, "You can modify the original title of this thread if you want, just modify it in the original post."
This is a wonderful suggestion.
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Post by Tiger on Aug 31, 2008 11:14:07 GMT -5
Thinking of you Rose-of-Texas, thinking my very best mad (as in crazy) tiger thoughts.
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Post by brainjam on Aug 31, 2008 14:36:20 GMT -5
Rose of Texas, you make me think of that beautiful song! Brain Jam
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