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Post by moggyfan on Jul 1, 2009 9:53:27 GMT -5
I don't visit chat very often, but I have a couple of thoughts on this topic.
I tend to be a somewhat sarcastic person. Over the years, I had occasional light-hearted and funny interchanges with kids in class, albeit always with a kid who could give as good as she got. It seemed harmless. One day, however, a colleague pointed out to me that I was not speaking just to one student, but to a roomful; what if my remarks caused another student not to speak up for fear of getting a similar comeback from me? I learned a good lesson that day. All this by way of saying I think Lioness has an excellent point: Just because the recipient of teasing or flirtation does not seem put off by it, others may feel quite differently and hesitate to participate.
Even though I drop into chat only occasionally, I have noticed over the past couple of months that the "climate" has changed considerably (maybe it's even because I don't visit often that it is more apparent). There does seem to be more sexual banter and teasing. There also seems to be less focus on the main topic of these boards.
As 60 said, the Internet abounds with chatrooms for sexual teasing and flirtation. I would be sorry to see SooS chat become one of them.
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Post by Script on Jul 1, 2009 9:54:47 GMT -5
If people want to make explicit remarks, perhaps the standing suggestion should be that they go into Private chat. Question for the mods: Does Proboards allow explicit sexual content in private chat? - Lioness: I am going to refer this question specifically to Celeste who knows more about this issue than I do. I also do not think we are going to RESOLVE this issue overnight. I encourage all of us to keep thinking about WHY we are here. ps: thanks for the understanding remarks about 'teasing'. I should also mention that there is no place on this board for anything that might be construed as Bullying (which is teasing taken to a far extreme): also found on some boards. |
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Post by 60isolderthanithot on Jul 1, 2009 9:55:38 GMT -5
It is awfully common for people who are bothered by sexual comments to be reluctant to ask a person to stop. Please note how many women get RAPED and never report it!
Is it asking too much for us to consider that a support group might contain more than the usual number of sensitive people? Many women are so used to being criticized for their feelings anyway, and we live in a sea of such public sexuality - women who are bothered might go silent instead of complaining to anyone. It's a surprise they even mentioned it to the Moderators. I take that as a sign of serious distress.
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Post by 60isolderthanithot on Jul 1, 2009 9:57:17 GMT -5
If ProBoard does not want it in Private Chat, perhaps the idea should be to make arrangements to contact outside of this board entirely. Surely that's appropriate.
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Post by CourageouslyLion SeeksSerenity on Jul 1, 2009 10:22:30 GMT -5
- REGISTRATION AGREEMENTThere is an interesting message that I don't remember reading. It's the message that shows at the bottom of your screen when you're in the PROCESS of REGISTERING for any proboards forum. Some of us may have checked out the Proboards "Terms of Service". But how many of us have recently read the "Registration Agreement" ? I (re)discovered it last week when I was signing up for a second account here at SOS. (I have a second account now called "courageouslylion 1 testing" -- it's for testing sending PM's to myself). You can see the "REGISTRATION AGREEMENT" if you are LOGGED OFF, and then click on "register". takeonestepatatime.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=registerThis statement seems to be on the "registration screen" for ALL the proboards forums. Here's what it says: Proboards "Regstration Agreement"
The Proboards.com "Terms of Service" ("TOS"):www.proboards.com/tos.html |
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Post by Gryfon on Jul 1, 2009 10:26:40 GMT -5
I think that if someone is feeling uncomfortable and doesn't want to approach the person then they could always PM a friend and ask them to mention it. The trouble is that if you over moderate you'll find people too scared to talk about anything just in case it upsets someone!
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Post by CourageouslyLion SeeksSerenity on Jul 1, 2009 10:53:15 GMT -5
It is awfully common for people who are bothered by sexual comments to be reluctant to ask a person to stop. Please note how many women get RAPED and never report it!
Is it asking too much for us to consider that a support group might contain more than the usual number of sensitive people? Many women are so used to being criticized for their feelings anyway, and we live in a sea of such public sexuality - women who are bothered might go silent instead of complaining to anyone. It's a surprise they even mentioned it to the Moderators. I take that as a sign of serious distress. I agree that a support group such as ours contains more than the usual number of sensitive people. I would suggest that excessive sexual innuendo might be troublesome to ANYONE, regardless of gender or sexual orientation. - |
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Post by cando on Jul 1, 2009 12:23:33 GMT -5
First of all, for the record, I am not one who reported anything, and I sure hope that I have never offended anyone in chat. I love to go to chat because it is fun and incredibly motivating. I think a little flirting and possibly very mild teasing is okay... but it can go a little overboard. About a month or two ago, I did pm someone that was in chat while we were all chatting... just wondering if she thought maybe there was a litte too much ... hmmm... teasing, flirting, and sexual harrassment ... going on. Can't remember my wording, exactly. It was a male member that I felt might be receiving a little too much of that. Although he seemed to enjoy it, I thought it was getting out of hand. But, I didn't want to spoil their fun, if it was only fun. So, we had a little private, personal chat going on while in the chatroom. I just kept thinking of the reasons someone signs onto a website such as this. Surely the main reason is to get their place cleaned up, learn how to maintain it, and have a support group while doing it, etc. ... (Once we are here, we do find it is a wonderful community! ... and can be helpful in even more ways). And, I didn't want him to feel that he couldn't be comfortable working on the same issues as the rest of us... due to being harrassed, teased, flirted with just because of his gender. The reason I sent the pm to a fellow chatter was because I was concerned that a chatter's feelings might be hurt or when that chatter sits back he might begin to consider it as sexual harrassment. And, I didn't want him to leave, so I didn't know whether to make a comment to the group of chatters or just let it go. After our brief "personal" chat, I did not say anything in the chatroom, as I got the feeling that I might spoil the fun as my fellow chatter thought that although it was a bit much that it was being enjoyed... I realize now that I should have made my pm to the person that I was concerned about rather than asking opinion of a fellow chatter and trying to guess. I love that there are so many different people here & in chat. It makes things much more interesting and fun. I am one of those that is easily side-trackable and need someone to guide me or get me to stay focused on cleaning. So, often I go to chat and end up chatting a lot, or will leave as I recognize that I am going to be chatting more and I needed to get things done. Other times, there is a chat challenge train & we get tons done! My suggestion would be a reminder, if possible, of some of the basic rules before going straight into chat. A screen with the chat guidelines (?)... brief, but enuf to remind of such things, ...and you have to click after reading that screen to enter the chatroom.
Something along the lines of this:
Please be mindful of the following while in chat:
1)Our purpose of the website & chat. (briefly stated as possible)
2)No porno.
3)Respect statement.
4)what to do if rules are violated
5)etc.
Stuff like that... not meant in a harsh way, but with a "Have Fun & get lots done!" focus yet a reminder, too.Don't know if I am making sense or not. Thanks for all that you admin do to provide us such a fabulous webiste. CD   |
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Post by Vassili on Jul 1, 2009 14:27:27 GMT -5
Thank you Lioness for posting the Terms of Services. I was looking for the SooS's official Terms of Services a few days ago, but couldn't find one that actually details what is acceptable or not. If the moderators can draft one up among themselves, and have it linked at the beginning of a chatroom, then maybe users will be less likely to say certain things.
Meanwhile, it is very much a she-says, he says kind of thing. In the past, I have used "print screen" command to report chat violations, however I have not done this for this community since a lot of people expressed that they feel that being recorded is a violation of their personal rights. So, I never bothered.
As a so-called "disabled" male, I find it hard to distinguish sexual connotations from non-sexual ones. This is in part due to the fact that most of my exposure has always been with female groups while growing up, and they treat me like this. The stuff that go on in the chat is basically the same way I had have been treated by staff of my old schools and older females. So I never really got to learn the differences in all of these things until the last few years whenever people point them out what is acceptable and what is not acceptable for how others treat me. For instance, when I was at a LRT station (Edmonton's Light Rail Transit, similar to a subway,) a former friend of mine asked why I let a guy shove me aside while he walked past me. I didn't know it was socially unacceptable because people have done it to me all the time far as I remember. So, I am with bigtimestroubles, I hope my presence in the chat didn't bring this about.
Meanwhile, I do think a Terms of Services should be written out for the SooS community to give a more solid foundation. I know how the forum functions, but I never seen a post that explicitly list them. There are guideline what is acceptable and what isn't, but nothing really too in depth. If the moderators want to, I could show them a few Terms of Services used by other fora.
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Post by Lucky Laura Loving Life on Jul 1, 2009 14:29:47 GMT -5
Dear Friends,
I agree with what appears to be the general consensus ,we use our group for goals we are trying to accomplish.Whether decluttering or support or maintenance.There is no reason the mission of this group should be jeopardized !! It is simply too valuable to us all.I also think there may be some here whom are very delicate and sensitive and they deserve a safe and respectful environment.I wish to always conduct myself in the manner in which these goals can be promoted and if at any time I am not I would like to know about immediately!
Love,Laura
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Post by still on Jul 1, 2009 15:17:09 GMT -5
I have been wondering who asked that the chat rooms no longer be monitored, and why. I haven't had any real problems in chat, but I don't spend a lot of time there. To me, the fact that there were people who wanted to get rid of moderators was suspicious. I didn't have any problem with monitors keeping track of what was going on in chat.
BIG Flirting to gain mental material for fantasizing is inappropriate. We are all connected, and when you fantasize about someone, you are setting up a pyschic connection that the other person may not have the skills to be aware of and to defend herself from. I don't care how absurd this sounds to anyone else, I KNOW this is TRUE!
Also, I worked on a crisis line, and one of type of person would call up, pretend to be someone who needed a kind listening ear and do the "m-thing" while listening to our voices. We ALL found this offensive. I don't see a big difference in what you are describing in your first post on this thread and what these guys were doing on the crisis line.
Lioness thank you for everything you shared above. I wish I was one of the people who could stand up for myself, and you would think that in the anonymity of chat, that wouldn't be a problem, but the truth is; it is hard for me even there.
One time one person became so negative, ranting and raving about something that person didn't feel had been done fairly. Then, when anyone tried to be helpful by trying to help this person put the situation into perspective, this person would attack whoever shared a thought, no matter how kind or well thought out. People started leaving the chat room very quickly with various excuses. It seemed pretty obvious that the angry chatter was chasing people away, so I said - and I tried to say it gently - that this person was chasing people out of chat.
But that situation was pretty much sticking up for other people, which I can do. If it is ever about me, I just leave and rarely say anything.
A couple of days ago in chat I thought we were just bouncing ideas around about what we would like in chat - like some more sounds, and I got slapped down twice. I finally just left. It wasn't a really hostile environment, but the healing I have experienced here has been from kindness. Where that breaks down, this site loses it's healing power for me. That may be true for others, also. Many of us are socially isolated because years of abuse - including sexual abuse - have destroyed our ability to endure even mild negativity, harrassment, or other things to be expected in being around people. I would be sorry to either lose this site because chatters won't abide by proboards regulations or because others, using the anonymity afforded by the internet enjoy being a bit abusive.
Anyway, the question is, what should be done about the possiblity that chat misconduct might cause proboards to shut SOOS down. I vote for returning the monitors to chat so they can address directly any individuals who are violating proboard guidelines or doing other things that are destructive to the atmosphere of support and encouragement and healing that SOOS currently is.
Barring that, hopefully, monitors will take any complaints seriously. A "three strikes, you're out" policy might be the best way to go. If someone is out of guidelines three times they are blocked from the board either for six months, or permanently. Or a version of this with one infraction bringing a warning, a second, being blocked from the board for 30 days, and a third for 6 months. If the monitors are abused by anyone they have to call on the carpet about things in chat, they should ban that person permanently. They should not have to take abuse over something like this.
These are my thoughts. I am only one voice; I know that. But since all opinions were asked for, here is mine.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 1, 2009 15:58:39 GMT -5
Hello I thought I would come over here and have my little voice heard also.
I am a in between type person, I am not easy offended and I do like to come into chat for a relaxed atmosphere wither it is chatting or on the challenge train, getting things done.
Since the difficulties have arisen this is the structure that I have used, if I'm challenge I go into the challenge train to challenge with light chat inbetween, however i must admit I like still have been very upset by some of the things that happened and how when someone was angry it was like everyone got attack if the discussion wasn't to their liking (I am not sure if it was the same comversation, but same principle at least) so sometimes I have went to hide out, away from others and on my own at times because of being upset.
With still I agree 100% about the chat being moderated, the first reason that arose about this was the legal implementions of those who may have others in their lives that might try to use this to their advantage in a court of law... HOWEVER I would like to say this, wither the moderators here on our forum recieve these logs in an email or not makes no difference ALL content over the internet is recorded and it is all stored somewhere. Also if this was to happen the police/court people would not contact the moderators of this board for the logs, they would contact proboards and seize the information that way, this is very unlikely to happen however this is how some did not want these chat records being recorded, so mods recieving logs or not makes no difference to the legal aspect of this.
However upon further into the conversation while trying to explain this to others, not for reasons of wanting mods to have logs makes no difference to me either way, but for education purposes if they were worried about lawyers and things so that they were informed that its all recorded anyways and thus if they do not want private details to recorded then they should just not say them at all. After my message was eventually heard after much hostility, that the reason for the lack of logs was so that the mods could not read this, again like still this made me suspicious as to why on a board were we are supporting each other, builing friendships and shifting our clutter for a better life that some would be offended if what we said were read by others.
I would not say anything in chat that I wouldn't want others to see, if I did I would PM however I have added a few on the board that I feel close to on MSN thus giving me privacy when I want to talk about something I may not want others to hear, I am a very personal person when it comes to sharing feelings and being close to others, this is a result of being raped and therfore it takes me a long time to build up trust with people.
In reguards to the content of chat, I am completely happy with light flirting/sexual talk, as was said earlier with the comparisions that were made a little light talk is completely acceptable to me, however if there is going to be posting of naked people or links to other sexually explicit material then I do not want to be privy to that. I do like a little banter and I don't like to always be surrounded by seriousness all the time, its a drag and we all need a little light teasing and laughter to keep us going. I would not like to see all sides of everyones different personalities stamped out but I would like others to be mindful of others that may be uncomfortable with some forms of chat.
Politics and Religion.... I am not comfortable talking about anyone in reguards to these topics, we are all from various parts of the world, various communities and have different religions. I feel that these topics can quite easily turn sour and I don't see why they matter at all.
What I think would help:
1. Bring the logging back with the same principle as before, not with the intent to read everything said in chat but to support any claims of harrassment. I feel that there should be something here to protect us all from situations like these, even though I do not even think for a minute it would be common... however anyone can register and join and we with our situation could be the victims of other malicious people this would be a way to protect us. Again I would not like others to feel that "big brother" was always watching you. However with your original post that said that logs would not be read until a complaint, I trust you guys and I believe that, that is how you would have approached it.
2. Topics in chat - I would not like to be conditioned as I am a good person and I would never intend to hurt/upset anyone here or anywhere intentionally however I know full well that this can happen even with the best intents. So I feel that any kind of explicitness should just be a no no, and if anyone is uncomfortable with certain conversations to say so or ignore the chat. Another alternative would be to those that like to have funny sarcastic chats that they could always make a new room and anyone else that would like to participate could and those that don't could stay in the main chat room... thus this would mean that those that don't want to feel like that can't say anything can but others than don't want to have a choice not to be involved if they do not.
I would also encourage private conversations to be done in chat or like me with those you are closest too you could use an IM or talk via PM for those times when you maybe want to talk about personal things that you can't say in chat due to being uncomfortable, this is something that has worked for me since as I said above I take a long time to open up to some due to my trust issues.
3. Having some small guidelines for things that are totally unacceptable, things that would result as still said in warning or a ban. This is a place of healing and should be treated so.
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I would also like to say that if I have every said anything that was offensive to others then I am sorry but please do not feel like you could never PM me via the board or in chat to let me know this, I am very reasonable.
Again however I am happy either way, I don't mind being logged, I have never had a problem with any of the flirtatious chat... the only thing I have never liked was agression and or slight bullying of others.
EDIT: I would really just like to put a footnote here that up top where I say I'm okay with light flirting\sexual chat, I feel that is a wrong way to describe what I mean ( I said above I am very private and personal and when it comes to feelings well I don't really wear them on my sleeve, which really makes it hard for me especially when I know a few people can read)
I mean like lighthearted talk of anything as the differences described earlier with PG-13 and not PG-13. So yes I suppose then my above statement of being okay with flirting/light sex was wrong. I used lightflirting/sex in a different way from some others due to where I live and the society differences. It is only now after reading how this is not for most others.
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Post by skatters on Jul 1, 2009 16:25:46 GMT -5
**I have had time to reconsider some points I previously made, so I am editing my original post**
I have not ever been exposed to something inappropriate in chat. Not to say something didn't exist, but I have not been concerned about inappropriate chatting.
I think simple guidelines in chat would be welcome. I would like there to be a reminder what our focus is, and to please keep chatting at a PG13 level or below. As adults, we all qualify for the PG13 rating. But if one is personally not comfortable with that rating then they can learn to use the ignore button, or leave when the chat gets uncomfortable. We can't be asked to censor *normal* adult banter.
Logging transcripts still make me feel uncomfortable.
If someone claims to mods that I am not maintaining that agreed upon PG13 level, I would appreciate a private email letting me know that I may have crossed a line, and to be more courteous in the future. BUT, sometimes it is also a case of the offendee needing to learn to monitor what he/she reads. Maybe they need to be reminded to use the ignore button. It goes both ways, for the debatable content.
Our main focus is our house and squalor related issues. But in order for me to open up on those issues, I have to build up some sort of relationship with people to do that. To build those relationships, I need to be able to converse and enjoy the other person. And bantering can be a part of that.
I would love to see more opinions from those that actually use the chat.
Thanks for taking the time to read my opinion!
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Post by moggyfan on Jul 1, 2009 16:42:10 GMT -5
I think the moderators' keeping a log of chat for a few days is a very fine idea.
Also: Someone above said they don't ever feel politics or religion is an appropriate topic while "light" sexual banter is okay. I am sure there are those who feel the reverse is true. I doubt it is feasible to create some list of "approved" topics that would please everyone.
I think some moderation is a better solution.
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Joined: January 1970
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Post by Deleted on Jul 1, 2009 16:59:00 GMT -5
That was myself moggy! I meant that for me any kind of lighthearted conversation about anything is alright for me and I listed what I was not comfortable with as to show how I felt not. I do not believe this is acceptable for everyone or even think for a second it would be just that is my realm of comfortableness. However saying that if anyone did talk about those subjects I would not be offended I just wouldn't participate  sorry if I picked up the wrong vibe also, I just don't want anyone to think that I was applying that light banter of any kind is okay while others are not for everyone... don't wanna be misunderstood |
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