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Post by tiredofthis on Oct 4, 2008 11:27:38 GMT -5
Here's my problem: I'm going to court on Wednesday to get divorced. The only thing stopping my soon-to-be-ex from signing the papers is that no matter how much time I offer to give him to get all his stuff out of the house and the garage, he isn't satisfied, and he walks away from the discussion in order to avoid the inevitable. I'm not a hoarder. I would throw out everything in this house, except necessities (clothes, stove, fridge, washer, dryer, beds, linens and my computer!) and photos of my family, and be happy just looking at blank walls. Can someone please give suggestions as to how to discuss this with him? Reason with him? If we don't have an agreement on Wednesday, and it goes into the judges hands, it will get messy, expensive, and possibly, I could end up having to sell my house.  |
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Post by sleepymom on Oct 4, 2008 13:10:58 GMT -5
Easy for me to say, I know, but can you give him a deadline, and say anything left after that will be put on the yard with a big "free!" sign?
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hollymaid
New Member
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 99
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Post by hollymaid on Oct 4, 2008 13:11:14 GMT -5
Can you pack up his stuff and confine it to one room? That way you don't have to look at it daily. How badly do you want it gone? I ended up packing up my ex's stuff and Dropping it off. I said to him where can I drop this stuff off? He said "I don't really have a place I am staying with a friend." I replied than I will be tossing it out in x number of days! (I figured if she had him, She was going out on the town with him, She could have all his stuff too!) He could spend some money to store his crap!
when they split up he ended up tossing all his stuff into the garbage can cause he had no where to store it!
I would be as nice as you can be because you are going to court... document the amount of times you had conversations about his stuff and him getting it out of your house. write down that he walked away and refused to discuss it. It shows a willingness on your part to be fair.
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Post by messybinky on Oct 4, 2008 13:21:31 GMT -5
Dear tired --
I'm not a hoarder as such, and so you'll need to take this suggestion with a whole pillar of salt: Is it possible that any timeline you offered your soon-to-be-ex would not be satisfactory to him, and that the mental processes in his brain which are causing him to hoard will interpret any discussion or reasoning as entirely UNreasonable? I'm not sure if it would be legal or enforceable, but the first thought which popped into my head was to say, "Ex, I will give you a choice: You can have until Wednesday to determine a deadline by which your stuff will be out of my house, with an attendant clause that if the determined timetable falls apart, I will box up all of your stuff and mail it to you postage due/put it in a storage locker which YOU will pay for/take all useful stuff to a charity or you can pay for all of the court expenses involved in dragging out this process of separation." That might sound a little mean-spirited, and I understand that if he is demand-resistant or demand-afraid, it might cause him to dig his heels in further, but I'm looking at it from your side and wanting you to be able to solve this problem in a way which works out best for YOU (and, secondarily, the ex). It could also be that ex wants to retain some degree of power over you, and he can do that by refusing to sign the divorce papers. In that case, the hoarding is just a convenient way to avoid saying "I want to have power over you and I won't sign the papers no matter what."
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Post by DJ on Oct 4, 2008 13:23:25 GMT -5
are you doing mediation with lawyers? can your lawyer pressure his if all other conditions are reasonable to get him to sign to retrieve his items?
could you try an alternative in mediation before court? court is expensive and it might be -less- expensive to hire someone to pack up all of his items and move them to a storage locker and give him the key in mediation. and tell him it's his responsibility to deal with it from then on.
even to pay to have someone do it, pay for the first month of storage might be less than court costs... if you did it yourself.. i have no idea how overwhelming of a task it might be but it's something you might discuss with your lawyer. making a clear consensus between you and ex on what is yours to keep and removing all of his items from the premise..
just some ideas, but i don't really know. certainly something to discuss with lawyer before taking any action though...
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Post by messymimi on Oct 4, 2008 14:16:16 GMT -5
It's true that if he is a truly overwhelmed hoarder, then no amount of time will be enough. Like the rest of us, he will have to come to the place where he can deal with it in his mind and in his own way.
That's not acceptable when it is stored in someone else's home.
Offering to put it all in storage for which he pays is more than fair. In fact, any of the other suggestions here are fair. Remind him that if it does go to court, and the judge sets a date by which he must have the stuff out, or the house has to be sold, he will lose any say in how long he has to get around to it.
Good luck.
messymimi
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Post by tiredofthis on Oct 4, 2008 19:41:48 GMT -5
Thank you for all your suggestions.
He doesn't have a lawyer, but I do. He doesn't have money because he is on disability, so he can't afford a storage area. I think his dad would let him borrow/have money for a lawyer, but I don't think my stbx (soon to be ex) wants his dad to know what's going on. I've told the stbx that if the house has to sell, then neither one of us will have any control over the amount of time he has to clear out.
It is about control on his part; he still has a key to the house because he says that as long as we're married, and his stuff is in the house, he has to have access to it. I had a boiler installed a few years ago, and he wanted to be here during the installation so the contractors didn't touch his stuff. I wouldn't let him come in, so he sat in front of the house next door, watching every move the contractors made. He flipped when he found out from my DD that we were having plumbers here to fix the plumbing; he wanted to know what day, and I wouldn't tell him.
Even today, when we were talking about what he was going to take and what he was going to leave for DD, etc. I mentioned that I was using a couple of his shelves in the kitchen, but that he could take them if he wanted to. He said I could have them if I needed them. So I said, if I keep them, then if I decide I don't need them anymore, I'm going to get rid of them, and he said I would have to ask him first before I did that. So I told him to either take them, or leave them, but if he left them, they were MINE to do with as I WISH. He just doesn't get that part.
Sigh... I guess I need a "hoarder whisperer"
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Post by threeg on Oct 4, 2008 20:44:19 GMT -5
In a friends case, she told her soon to be ex to come with a police officer and get his stuff by a certain date. He was embarrassed, to involve the cops so that didn't happen.
Then she took a lot of the stuff and put it out for anyone to take. That was documented by her lawyer, so it wasn't an issue in the divorce, but he wasn't happy.
I was happy because I didn't take a thing, and believe me, I was tempted! 3g
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Post by need2bfree on Oct 5, 2008 2:23:08 GMT -5
Maybe he is just to overwhelmed to move the stuff himself.
I think the best option is to pack everything and have it put into storage. You can hire people cheaply enough, and there are always people looking for day work. Pay for the first month or two (if you feel generous) and after that its up to him to take care of.
That way he has his stuff, you have your space. It's a win, win situation.
Oh, and I probably wouldn't tell him, or he'll just freak out. Just do it and give him the keys to his new space.
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Post by tiredofthis on Oct 5, 2008 9:20:58 GMT -5
I'm just so overwhelmed myself. I found out last December, 5 days before my mom passed away, that there's a lien on my house due to him not paying for a storage area about 12 years ago. The original judgment against him was $6800 (about 10 months worth of unpaid rent.. it was an enormous space, like a warehouse). Now, with interest and court costs, the entire amount is about $17,800, and climbing daily. Plus, I'm responsible for a lawyers bill from about the same time period, due to an eviction from another storage area, due to him, Guess what? - not getting his stuff out on time. That bill is $2000. I'm on a payment plan for that. The warehouse people won't settle for anything less than $12000, which I can't afford, so the amount is $17,800 and climbing. So, no, I'm not feeling particularly generous towards him, and no, I will not pay any storage fees for him. I guess my only choice is to take my chances in court, and when the dates come and go for him to remove his stuff, I'll change the locks on the house and the garage and just start tossing stuff to the curb, little by little.
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Post by tiredofthis on Oct 5, 2008 9:37:17 GMT -5
Ok, I guess the wording in the first post and heading didn't really describe the problem. I'm clear on the fact that no matter what he promises, he won't meet the deadline. I just want him to commit to something in writing, so we can enter the property settlement agreement, and not leave the whole divorce up to the judge. I do not want to leave the time for removal of his property open ended. So I guess I was looking for a calming way to discuss coming to an agreement. what words not to use that would potentially trigger a bad response in a hoarder.
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Post by need2bfree on Oct 5, 2008 13:27:24 GMT -5
You can always do what a friend of mine did. Her husband still lived in the house and wouldn't leave even though the divorce was almost final. They were selling the house, but he wanted to keep it and was using his squatters rights, ha! She decided to have a "moving sale", she let people come in and buy stuff out of her house. My parents bought her bedroom set, guess who was sleeping on it? That's right she went in and pulled that mattress right out from under him, he didn't know what hit him. Needless to say he quickly got the picture that she meant business, he grabbed the stuff he wanted and left  So maybe to cover the debt owed to you and save your house and sanity, have a BIG sale. Put in an ad, put posters up and just let people go through, browse and buy it, Maybe that will shake him up enough to get his crap out! Technically that stuff belongs to you, you have been storing it and position is 9/10's of the law, isn't it??? So clear it out. BTW if you don't want to do that, the Salvation Army will come and do a complete removal for free!!! Just go on line and make an appointment. Anyway, just some ideas. Good Luck  |
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Post by need2bfree on Oct 5, 2008 13:37:47 GMT -5
Words?? I don't think there are any. You have to remember that this is an irrational behavior, even some hoarders arn't sure why they hoard, they just do. Maybe he is to embarrased to have anyone help him, he doesn't want other people to know he does this.
Seems to me, you have tried to help him in every way possible. Maybe the judge will motivate him?
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Post by tiredofthis on Oct 5, 2008 23:04:58 GMT -5
 . oh, my. i laughed at the hoarder whisperer part. don't know what to say. hang in there, though. I guess I just have to keep my sense of humor in all this.. |
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Post by metamorpha on Oct 6, 2008 0:33:29 GMT -5
Can you have it finalized without setting a deadline? If you don't address when it has to be picked up, you should be able to use your state's abandoned property laws to take care of it. (I am not a lawyer though and my opinions really aren't a substitute for legal advice.)
Good luck.
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